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Hi

 

Im currently giving the JTAC GBU-12 mission but no matter what I do, Im unable to find the laser from the JTAC.

 

Using correct code-1688, JTAC instruction to fire laser has been given,STORES settings using AUTO, MASTER ARM on, A/G on, EFUZ INST, GBU12 RDY etc.

 

Flying towards or over target I`m never getting the azimuth steering line, or target location etc on HUD which means i cant release the bomb.

 

What do I have to do to get this to work? What step am I missing?

 

There is nothing specific to JTAC lasing for GBU12s in any guidance ive looked at. Chucks Guide focuses on dropping them using TPOD not JTAC lasing, same goes for ED manual for the Hornet.

 

(It works in CCIP mode if im high enough and eyeball when im meant to release but would prefer it see if CCRP mode actually works the way its meant to)

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Maps:

Caucasus || NTTR

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You are using the TPOD in LST mode right? Toggle Switch on for LST is on and CODE set for LSTC for the tracker vs. the Designator?

 

In my experience, you really need to help out the LST to get it to find the spot by designating a point VERY close to the expected targets (or put FLIR in VVSLAVE and point the velocity vector toward the targets) so that the TPOD and tracker has a better chance of finding the spot.

 

Once the LST picks up the SPOT, use TDC depress to designate it so you have an AUTO release cue. Make sure your own laser designator is off.

 

Here is a TRK using the VVSLV method. Since I actually know where the targets are at WP4, I put the VV on the approx location. I could have Designated the WP and gotten even closer. In 'real' life you might need to do what Frederf suggests in making a WP with the coordinates. I think the piece you were missing was the TDC depress to set a designation after the LST picks up the spot.

 

Note: the second track, I switched the LST from the default NSRC (NARROW search) to WSRC (WIDE search) in the second TRK, the laser spot got picked up a lot easier.. forgot about that the first time through.

Recluse_JTAC_GBU.trk

Recluse_JTAC_GBU_WSRC..trk

Edited by Recluse
Added TRKs and explanations
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LST doesn't seem to be very good about searching a wide area. I find it has about a 3 degree maximum angle between designated point and the laser. If you know roughly where the target is visually VVSL and fly the VV within 3 degrees of the laser to spot it. Otherwise you're going to want to type the JTAC coords into a new point and pre aim the FLIR to that. LST is really narrow in its search.

 

When LST finds the laser press TDC inward (with FLIR selected) to designate. The TGT diamond in the HUD will jump to the designated spot and that gives the ASL and allows a normal bomb drop in AUTO. If the target is moving then keep designating to keep updating the position.

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If you want to give yourself an advantage until you get more comfortable with the functionality of the pod in LST mode, fly at night and turn on your night vision goggles. You'll be able to visually see the laser beam, and that makes it a lot easier to point the pod at the end of it.

 

Along those lines, a question I've wondered about: if the laser is visible in the NVGs, shouldn't it also be visible on the pod imagery when the pod is in FLIR mode? Or do they work completely differently?

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Along those lines, a question I've wondered about: if the laser is visible in the NVGs, shouldn't it also be visible on the pod imagery when the pod is in FLIR mode? Or do they work completely differently?

NVGs operate in the visible light and near infrared spectrum. The IR lasers that are used as marking lasers, as well as IR aiming lasers mounted on rifles, operate in the near infrared. NIR is invisible to the naked eye but otherwise functions much the same way as visible light.

 

The FLIR imager itself operates in the thermal (long and medium wavelength) infrared region, which is where heat radiation occurs. This portion of the spectrum behaves very differently than visible light, and cameras sensitive in this region can see in complete darkness. This is a lower frequency portion of the spectrum than NIR, so the FLIR camera does not see the marking laser.

 

 

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You dont get a TPOD in this mission. I assume you dont need one for GBU-12 JTAC bombing as you are using thier laser to track not your own? Unlike the Harrier which im used to and has the LST using the DMT in the nose, does the Hornet have the same function without using a TPOD? And if it doesnt, why in this mission are you not given a TPOD?

My Rig:

Intel Core i5 4690K@4.4GHz+ || ASUS Z97-P Mobo || Pallit GTX 970 4GB || 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz || 1x Samsung 850 Evo 120GB SSD & 2x Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSD || ASUS Xonar DG Soundcard || Ilyamma 27” Monitor || Win 7 Home Premium || TM Hotas X || TrackHat Clip

 

Modules:

A-10C & A-10C II|| BS2 || FC3 || CA || UH-1H || AV-8B || L-39 || F-86 || F-5 II || Mi-8 || M-2000C

 

Maps:

Caucasus || NTTR

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You need a TPOD. The weapon can't establish the release parameters - it isn't clever enough. You need to use the pod, slew to the rough area and then activate LSS mode. The pod will search and find the lased point. Select that as your SPI and THEN the aircraft can calculate the release solution.

 

I'd be surprised if an aircraft were dispatched with laser guided weapons with no means of designating targets. If there was a problem with the JTAC in any way, you'd have an aeroplane full of weapons with no means of deployment! I might be mistaken :)

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There is a problem then with this mission as no TPOD is given

My Rig:

Intel Core i5 4690K@4.4GHz+ || ASUS Z97-P Mobo || Pallit GTX 970 4GB || 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz || 1x Samsung 850 Evo 120GB SSD & 2x Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSD || ASUS Xonar DG Soundcard || Ilyamma 27” Monitor || Win 7 Home Premium || TM Hotas X || TrackHat Clip

 

Modules:

A-10C & A-10C II|| BS2 || FC3 || CA || UH-1H || AV-8B || L-39 || F-86 || F-5 II || Mi-8 || M-2000C

 

Maps:

Caucasus || NTTR

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There is absolutely no need for a TPOD when using LGBs. You can happily drop them through a cloud layer for example and have the JTAC home the bomb in.

 

Is this mission using using the built-in JTAC? Is so, do they not provide you data, I.e. a flashing red triangle on your TAD?

 

If so, hook it, set TAD as your SPI, and drop the bomb on it. alternatively, he should provide you with coordinates, so create a waypoint with your CDU with the coords, set it as your steer point, set STPT as your SPI, and drop on that.

 

Also, for bult.in JTAC, you'll have to request "laser on" and then don't speak.to him anymore until it hits or they will disengage the laser.

 

Edit: @Meyomyx, IRL in a CAS setup, the FAC or JTAC would lase, allowing for a fire and forget type delivery and allowing you to get out of there. It's only in DCS you pronarily shop for targets and do everything yourself. IRL its quite difficult to identify friend from foe. IRL tanks don't hang out in the middle of a field waiting to get hit.

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There is absolutely no need for a TPOD when using LGBs. You can happily drop them through a cloud layer for example and have the JTAC home the bomb in.

 

Is this mission using using the built-in JTAC? Is so, do they not provide you data, I.e. a flashing red triangle on your TAD?

 

If so, hook it, set TAD as your SPI, and drop the bomb on it. alternatively, he should provide you with coordinates, so create a waypoint with your CDU with the coords, set it as your steer point, set STPT as your SPI, and drop on that.

 

Also, for bult.in JTAC, you'll have to request "laser on" and then don't speak.to him anymore until it hits or they will disengage the laser.

 

Edit: @Meyomyx, IRL in a CAS setup, the FAC or JTAC would lase, allowing for a fire and forget type delivery and allowing you to get out of there. It's only in DCS you pronarily shop for targets and do everything yourself. IRL its quite difficult to identify friend from foe. IRL tanks don't hang out in the middle of a field waiting to get hit.

 

I could be mistaken and missing something critical, but I believe you are describing procedure in the A-10C. F/A-18 doesn't have this capability as far as I am aware (at least not YET in DCS).

Without the MOD that allows the JTAC to send coordinates in the right format for the F/A-18, or the ability of the F/A-18 to directly enter MGRS coordinates you cannot yet do this without some effort.

 

 

 

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Hi

 

Im currently giving the JTAC GBU-12 mission but no matter what I do, Im unable to find the laser from the JTAC.

 

Flying towards or over target I`m never getting the azimuth steering line, or target location etc on HUD which means i cant release the bomb.

 

(It works in CCIP mode if im high enough and eyeball when im meant to release but would prefer it see if CCRP mode actually works the way its meant to)

 

Short version is that if you don't have a TPOD your bomb will never indicate to you that it's "found" the laser spot and create a target point to drop on. You need to designate the target point yourself (via inputting the co-ordinates to create a waypoint then WPDSG etc) to get your CCRP release cues, then release it on faith that it's going to find and hit the laser (which it should if you were anywhere close with the target point you designated). If you have the TPOD you can find and see the spot using LST and designate the target based on that.

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Well, no pod certainly rules out using the pod. Realistically you would always make a waypoint regardless. You aren't going to use auto bombing without some kind of designated point. Using the F10 map to convert MGRS to LL for entry which gets easier with practice. You don't have to be perfect, just close enough to see the target for BOT or within bomb basked for BOC. If you visually find the target you can designate it in AUTO or use CCIP.

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I did a quick test today. Loaded up 4 GBU12's, Set up a Predator in orbit as a JTAC and for targets I put a column of trucks (on road at 25kts) Well, I was told to forget GBU's and use guns. Fine!

Seems like the HUD diamond does not follow the moving targets, same issue as when using LTD/R. That could be a serious problem when firing guns. But, there's always a backup sensor... eyeballs:D

Worked out fine:

[YOUTUBE]LY9K6VQpiTk[/YOUTUBE]

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I did a quick test today. Loaded up 4 GBU12's, Set up a Predator in orbit as a JTAC and for targets I put a column of trucks (on road at 25kts) Well, I was told to forget GBU's and use guns. Fine!

Seems like the HUD diamond does not follow the moving targets, same issue as when using LTD/R. That could be a serious problem when firing guns. But, there's always a backup sensor... eyeballs:D

Worked out fine:

LY9K6VQpiTk

I watched your video. The pod does not automatically create an A/G designation when it tracks a laser source, unless in mistaken.

 

I see that the TDC is assigned to the FLIR and I assume that you hit TDC Depress when your pod found the laser. If that's the case, then the A/G designation was placed where the pod was pointing at that time and won't follow the laser, as it moves with the target.

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I could be mistaken and missing something critical, but I believe you are describing procedure in the A-10C. F/A-18 doesn't have this capability as far as I am aware (at least not YET in DCS).

Without the MOD that allows the JTAC to send coordinates in the right format for the F/A-18, or the ability of the F/A-18 to directly enter MGRS coordinates you cannot yet do this without some effort.

 

 

 

Correct mate, this wonderful new forum gives less visibility when hitting "new posts" to see what category they fall under *facepalm*. And yes, I'm using the JTAC mod for LL and been doing so for so long I've forgotten it wasn't stock. So in "vanilla" without a LL waypoint in the F-18, you're correct, flying without a TPOD would be a PITA.

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Correct mate, this wonderful new forum gives less visibility when hitting "new posts" to see what category they fall under *facepalm*. And yes, I'm using the JTAC mod for LL and been doing so for so long I've forgotten it wasn't stock. So in "vanilla" without a LL waypoint in the F-18, you're correct, flying without a TPOD would be a PITA.

 

Well, according to one of Wags' last update news we will finally get grid entry for the Hornet with the next patch. That will make my squad's human JTAC / FAC(a) duties that much better and work with the MGRS coords of the AI JTAC

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I did a quick test today. Loaded up 4 GBU12's, Set up a Predator in orbit as a JTAC and for targets I put a column of trucks (on road at 25kts) Well, I was told to forget GBU's and use guns. Fine!

Seems like the HUD diamond does not follow the moving targets, same issue as when using LTD/R. That could be a serious problem when firing guns. But, there's always a backup sensor... eyeballs:D

Worked out fine:

 

Hey Gripes,

 

I had the same issue when making my TRK in this thread with the Drone as AFAC/JTAC always asking for guns. It doesn't preclude the use of GBU but it annoyed me :). I found that in the Mission Editor, switching the JTAC/AFAC weapons requirement from AUTO to GUIDED caused the AFAC/JTAC to correctly request GBU. Didn't try to see what happened if I had NO guided weapons onboard.

 

 

 

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I had the same issue when making my TRK in this thread with the Drone as AFAC/JTAC always asking for guns. It doesn't preclude the use of GBU but it annoyed me :). I found that in the Mission Editor, switching the JTAC/AFAC weapons requirement from AUTO to GUIDED caused the AFAC/JTAC to correctly request GBU. Didn't try to see what happened if I had NO guided weapons onboard.

I don't use the JTAC a lot, but I think if you're out of the specific weapon type (assuming the JTAC is set to request one), you'll get the "no further tasking available"

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I don't use the JTAC a lot, but I think if you're out of the specific weapon type (assuming the JTAC is set to request one), you'll get the "no further tasking available"

 

Yeah. I did a little forum searching and apparently if the targets are thin skinned vehicles (e.g. trucks) the JTAC will ask for GUNS so as not to waste expensive GBU. For TANKS and such, AUTO should still request GBU. Setting to GUIDED forces them to call for GUIDED weapons. Gripes had Trucks, my test had some APC vehicles, similarly thin skinned, I guess.

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Yeah. I did a little forum searching and apparently if the targets are thin skinned vehicles (e.g. trucks) the JTAC will ask for GUNS so as not to waste expensive GBU. For TANKS and such, AUTO should still request GBU. Setting to GUIDED forces them to call for GUIDED weapons. Gripes had Trucks, my test had some APC vehicles, similarly thin skinned, I guess.

 

That's fine. Skin thickness could be a criteria, I can live with that. My issue is not having any indication on HUD when my LST is tracking a mover and when using a gun I can't tell by looking at RDDI where target is. Sure, if we had a fully developed JTAC, he could give you some talk-on... but we don't.

It's the same issue with tracking movers on HUD when using LTD/R. The LST, Lmavs will acquire the laser but the HUD is 'detached' from the loop and will not show the moving track.

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That's fine. Skin thickness could be a criteria, I can live with that. My issue is not having any indication on HUD when my LST is tracking a mover and when using a gun I can't tell by looking at RDDI where target is. Sure, if we had a fully developed JTAC, he could give you some talk-on... but we don't.

It's the same issue with tracking movers on HUD when using LTD/R. The LST, Lmavs will acquire the laser but the HUD is 'detached' from the loop and will not show the moving track.

 

I don't recall... if you convert the LST to get a POINT TRACK and DESIGNATE, does the HUD follow the mover as well as the FLIR? Hard to do all those mechanics when rolling in for a guns pass, but it makes sense that the initial ground designation wouldn't follow the movers where a POINT TRACK should.

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That's fine. Skin thickness could be a criteria, I can live with that. My issue is not having any indication on HUD when my LST is tracking a mover and when using a gun I can't tell by looking at RDDI where target is. Sure, if we had a fully developed JTAC, he could give you some talk-on... but we don't.

It's the same issue with tracking movers on HUD when using LTD/R. The LST, Lmavs will acquire the laser but the HUD is 'detached' from the loop and will not show the moving track.

 

With the TDC assigned to the FLIR, you can update your A/G designation whenever you want, by depressing the TDC. If your TPOD is tracking the laser, it will move with it, so depressing the TDC will designate its current position and you can repeat that process as often as you wish. Unless there's some functionality I don't know about (which is entirely possible), that's how it works in the real jet.

 

What I do, when tracking moving targets, is that I'll start with a designation when I'm further away and update it once or twice as needed, as I set up for my run. When I turn in to attack, I'll usually update it regularly, up to the point that I have a visual on the target.

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With the TDC assigned to the FLIR, you can update your A/G designation whenever you want, by depressing the TDC. If your TPOD is tracking the laser, it will move with it, so depressing the TDC will designate its current position and you can repeat that process as often as you wish. Unless there's some functionality I don't know about (which is entirely possible), that's how it works in the real jet.

 

What I do, when tracking moving targets, is that I'll start with a designation when I'm further away and update it once or twice as needed, as I set up for my run. When I turn in to attack, I'll usually update it regularly, up to the point that I have a visual on the target.

 

I haven't flown Hornets either so I'm just following my own logic:megalol:. HUD is part of the sensor integration and it should be able to repeat other sensor targeting data. Perhaps my mech. is wrong. I'll tinker with it some more.

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