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Lockon's F15 --> Absolute air superiority?


junae
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Hi, last night me and a couple friends were flying online, we have almost the same skill levels (though among the three, I'm the worst, LOL).

 

 

Well, we set a gunzo combat this way: me and Eagle (nickname of a friend) were in SU27, and the other guy (Chm0d) was in a F15... full fuel tank no external stores.

 

I was really impressed on the F15's turn rate, it was funny how it could out-turn both Su27s... in 10 tries, the F15 was victorious in 9!! There was a situation where me and Eagle were chasing Chm0d, we were on it's six, then he quickly move around and downed us with impressive ease...

 

 

Is it supposed to be? I was expecting the F15 to be a BVR fighter, that should avoid turn fights, but I think I'm wrong...

 

 

Thanks!! ;)

=FN= Six o'Clock

Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron

Florianopolis :: Brazil

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That was what I was going to ask. Did you have 100% fuel on the Flanker? Because between 60% and 40% is recommended for dogfights.

 

About the Eagle: it is not a BVR exclusive fighter. Nope. It is an excellent dogfither as well due to its very good aceleration that keeps the energy on the aircraft allowing it to maintain sharp turns more easily. Plus it is lighter than the Flanker.

 

GGTharos can tell you more though. He's an Eagle specialist...

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I'm wondering, could be that a Su27 with full tank is much heavier than a F15 with full tank (considering only internal)?

 

Weight is crucial in a turn fight isn't it? ;)

=FN= Six o'Clock

Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron

Florianopolis :: Brazil

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More practise, less fuel! ;)

golden words! :)

 

junae, Su-27's volume of fuel in internal stores is nearly equal to F-15's internal+external fuel. So give flanker some less fuel and fight your friend one more time :)

"There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu

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... So give flanker some less fuel and fight your friend one more time :)

 

 

 

Yeah, I'll give it a try...

 

 

Let's see what happens with a lighter russian bird... ;)

=FN= Six o'Clock

Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron

Florianopolis :: Brazil

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Dogfighting with F-15, 50% fuel ... with Flanker, 20-30%.

 

The F-15 has a slight advantage in sustained turns at its corner speed, Su-27 always has advantage in instantaneous, and also slow-speed performance ... however a good eagle pilot can see you using your instantaneous and let you bleed your speed till you think you have a position ... then he'll turn it into a vertical fight and you won't be able to keep up.

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Lockon at its current state doesn’t model BVR very good. A missile launch at BVR ranges is a wasted missile, unfortunately. Pilots with a little experience can trash missiles < Rnoe pretty consistently. Missiles need to be redone desperately in my opinion.

 

However, dog fighting is another thing. I think ED has modeled performance issues pretty good. The F15C is pretty good in a turn fight but isn’t the best. If you study some performance charts (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097a.html) you can learn to work you airframe to its advantage as while as taking away your bandits strengths.

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I found out recently that there are many flanker drivers who manage to get the initiative over the F-15 by dodging AMRAAM's without loosing lock to their targets. Have to figure out a way to prevent this.

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Hey Pilotasso, I solved this a while back. Its called a Aim-7. Its funny to watch a low flying mig drag back and forth trying to drain Aim-120 energy, while a Aim-7 is closing. It gets them almost everytime. Combine a F-pole with a aim-120 and a aim-7 problem solved. It works with Flankers to just have to be a little more careful. :)

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THX eagle. I Do carry AIM-7's. I use them primarily to give a surprise to my targets after My radar bruns through their ECM. This forces them to go defensive half the times, because they dont know how close it is. Then I let go the 120 off. Still its not perfect. Of those double lauches only 20% hit home.

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My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

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CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

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Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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Dogfighting with F-15, 50% fuel ... with Flanker, 20-30%.

 

The F-15 has a slight advantage in sustained turns at its corner speed, Su-27 always has advantage in instantaneous, and also slow-speed performance ... however a good eagle pilot can see you using your instantaneous and let you bleed your speed till you think you have a position ... then he'll turn it into a vertical fight and you won't be able to keep up.

 

 

Hi men

In the RvE for to make a gunzo we try to use same time of fly in full AB at sea level so about 52% in F15 and 40% for Su27.

 

Have a good day @+

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Hey Pilotasso, I solved this a while back. Its called a Aim-7. Its funny to watch a low flying mig drag back and forth trying to drain Aim-120 energy, while a Aim-7 is closing. It gets them almost everytime. Combine a F-pole with a aim-120 and a aim-7 problem solved. It works with Flankers to just have to be a little more careful. :)

 

Not going to work anymore after V1.12 unfortunately. Anyway, I don't think a complete overhaul of the current missile system is needed (and AFAIK, is not planned), but just some modelling of monopulse radar technology and some limitations of chaff that simply aren't present in Lock On.

 

I'm hoping BVR combat will be a new ball game in V1.2.

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Not going to work anymore after V1.12 unfortunately. Anyway, I don't think a complete overhaul of the current missile system is needed (and AFAIK, is not planned), but just some modelling of monopulse radar technology and some limitations of chaff that simply aren't present in Lock On.

 

I'm hoping BVR combat will be a new ball game in V1.2.

 

 

I’m also aware of the chaff issue and do also think that after the SARH get there chaff adjustment this will effect the POK of the SARH but it is my hope that a head to head forward hemisphere launch will not be beat by chaff place out side of the LOS of the radar and the target. The 120s are sucker for this do to its poorly modeled radar/ seeker.

 

This F15 radar is a lot better of keeping track of the target then the 120. So I hope the SARH does not get nerfed as well. I think if it doesn’t this tactic should still work against bandits trying to drag back and forth to drain missile energy as mentioned by Pilotasso?

 

All thumbs up on BVR being better in 1.2, keeping fingers and toes crossed!

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Look in this post

 

you will find some usefull information about turn rate etc...

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=13451

 

but sometinho i have noticied is the maximun of [ 22.4 ] degrees per second for SU-27 compared to the simhq page where it gets [ 25 ]

 

Maybe in the Jetfire test the SU still having some room to get more speedy

 

same occur with the F-15

 

or just boot aircrafts have being tunned down in the next path ( if im not wrong simhq page is 1.0 )

 

really dont know

 

Cya

 

sorry for the poor english

Rodrigo Monteiro

LOCKON 1.12

AMD 3.8 X2 64 2G DDR ATI X1800XT 512

SAITEK X-36

AND VERY SOON TRACKIR-4

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I’m also aware of the chaff issue and do also think that after the SARH get there chaff adjustment this will effect the POK of the SARH but it is my hope that a head to head forward hemisphere launch will not be beat by chaff place out side of the LOS of the radar and the target. The 120s are sucker for this do to its poorly modeled radar/ seeker.

 

This F15 radar is a lot better of keeping track of the target then the 120. So I hope the SARH does not get nerfed as well. I think if it doesn’t this tactic should still work against bandits trying to drag back and forth to drain missile energy as mentioned by Pilotasso?

 

All thumbs up on BVR being better in 1.2, keeping fingers and toes crossed!

 

Don't think so. After V1.12, the AMRAAM is pretty much superior to the AIM-7 in almost every respect, so you'd probably be better off without the AIM-7s. The new patch makes the AIM-120 a much better weapon than the AIM-7, but this was accomplished by toning down the Sparrow, not upping the abilities of the AMRAAM.

 

But believe us, there are people pushing this issue and ED is already well aware of it. No point in pressing this issue further.

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Not going to work anymore after V1.12 unfortunately. Anyway, I don't think a complete overhaul of the current missile system is needed (and AFAIK, is not planned), but just some modelling of monopulse radar technology and some limitations of chaff that simply aren't present in Lock On.

 

I'm hoping BVR combat will be a new ball game in V1.2.

 

Believe it or not, My tactics havent changed much from 1.02. I Still fly high looking down at at targets and shoot them from 15 miles or so. What did change was the kill ratio. I used to have 4,5 or even 6 kills every flight and now I get 1 or 2. Russian birds have since improved their success rate despite all that has been said. I definatly noticed much more agresseviness in their engagements.

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Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=13451

 

but sometinho i have noticied is the maximun of [ 22.4 ] degrees per second for SU-27 compared to the simhq page where it gets [ 25 ]

 

Maybe in the Jetfire test the SU still having some room to get more speedy

 

Here's how I've read it works on a real thing: once you pull above [don't remamber exactly how much AOA] a hydraulic piston pushes the stick forward thus limiting AOA, and even reducing it by a few degrese. But.. a nice thing is, if you know what u're doing (or at least think you do), you can push against that piston and, in true sence of the word, manually over-ride the AOA limitter.

 

This could be why it's simulated to an average around the max limitter value.

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Don't think so. After V1.12, the AMRAAM is pretty much superior to the AIM-7 in almost every respect, so you'd probably be better off without the AIM-7s. The new patch makes the AIM-120 a much better weapon than the AIM-7, but this was accomplished by toning down the Sparrow, not upping the abilities of the AMRAAM.

 

But believe us, there are people pushing this issue and ED is already well aware of it. No point in pressing this issue further.

 

Hum...I have been one of those!

 

I have heard 120s are going to better then 7s from others as well. It seems to me that this would be very unrealistic in the example I stated above if chaff is not in direct LOS of radar to target and give a better return then the airframe. I know that doesnt make it so in lockon but seems silly to keep degrading missiles to perform worse as a fix to make another missile work better.....dont it?

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One of the items fixed is passive countermeasures have been adjusted, hopefully it wont pork the 120 as much anymore.

[sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic]

My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum

CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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