MiG-29 combat help. Being the underdog is hard.

[Pajeezy]

For whatever reason, I really enjoy the MiG-29 and it is possibly my favorite Russian aircraft. I've learned to fly it relatively well and understand how it works. But now my problem is putting all of it into action.

 

Multiplayer servers a lot of fun, so I've been drawn to them, although it is probably not the best decision to start out on. But whether it's single player or multiplayer, I take off from my airport and begin to follow my waypoints. Now I feel like U.S. aircraft (especially the top dog F-15C) have an advantage over the Russian fighters. The Su-27 is one thing, and one that could, I feel, stand up to the Eagle. But the MiG-29 seems severely outmatched in this department.

 

I tend to try and keep my radar off at almost all times, and rely on IRST to be a bit stealthy. But other than that, I'm not sure how else to employ what the MiG has to offer. What altitudes are most effective for seeking out bogies during a CAP? Should I rely on my RWR to find targets using their radar? Should I actually have my own radar on and just constantly turn around seeking targets? What tactics do any Fulcrum pilots employ when facing tough (or any) opposition? Thanks for any help to an aspiring learner :D

[fitness88]

For whatever reason, I really enjoy the MiG-29 and it is possibly my favorite Russian aircraft. I've learned to fly it relatively well and understand how it works. But now my problem is putting all of it into action.

 

Multiplayer servers a lot of fun, so I've been drawn to them, although it is probably not the best decision to start out on. But whether it's single player or multiplayer, I take off from my airport and begin to follow my waypoints. Now I feel like U.S. aircraft (especially the top dog F-15C) have an advantage over the Russian fighters. The Su-27 is one thing, and one that could, I feel, stand up to the Eagle. But the MiG-29 seems severely outmatched in this department.

 

I tend to try and keep my radar off at almost all times, and rely on IRST to be a bit stealthy. But other than that, I'm not sure how else to employ what the MiG has to offer. What altitudes are most effective for seeking out bogies during a CAP? Should I rely on my RWR to find targets using their radar? Should I actually have my own radar on and just constantly turn around seeking targets? What tactics do any Fulcrum pilots employ when facing tough (or any) opposition? Thanks for any help to an aspiring learner :D

 

Interesting post...I too feel much as you do. I don't like to broadcast my presence and like you prefer to be stealthy and let the enemy radar be my beacon. I only wish the EOS scan elevation would get fixed and for the life of me don't understand why it's taking so long. It's a feature that helps to level out the playing field a bit. It's a great plane to fly and very fast, having said that I am now attempting to get some flying time in the F-15.

[Nybble]

I'm in the same boat. I take time to look at the mission brief and plan out the best area to surprise any hostiles. Quite often I'll pickup something on my RWR and turn towards that, occasionally putting my own radar on but usually using EOS. However whoever spiked my normally just disappears and I end up flying around with not contacts.

 

Some advice from expert pilots would be appreciated!

[lunaticfringe]

It's important to understand that first and foremost, the MiG-29 is a point defense interceptor. Your role is to get in the air and engage a pre-determined target, or take a pass through specific airspace and leave. It's not truly intended to operate as an OCA platform; this is clear based on both your fuel fraction and your available weapons load.

 

Multiplayer servers can be hard on the Fulcrum because it can be a long drive out to where the action is, and you're at a disadvantage with the hardware you can carry to take the fight there. A couple of R-27s or R-77s isn't going to make an air superiority platform out of you. There is also quite often a lack of AEW in the air, which you need to really fulfill the role of the GCI that the Fulcrum would have operationally.

 

Because of this, if you're on a server it's good to tag along with somebody. This is generally a good practice anyways, but it does not need to be of the same type. Nor does it need to be a formation. To the contrary- if you're joining up at an airfield with a couple of Flanker guys, follow them out about 30 seconds behind, and stick to the ground, radar off. Let them find the target and start the prosecution, while you enter the merge late with severe offset and lots of knots on. Take opportune shots and leave. This gets you in and out while making you a factor with your more limited hardware and weapons.

 

It's imperative you use the aircraft as designed and intended to survive.

[FLANKERATOR]

For whatever reason, I really enjoy the MiG-29 and it is possibly my favorite Russian aircraft. I've learned to fly it relatively well and understand how it works. But now my problem is putting all of it into action.

 

Multiplayer servers a lot of fun, so I've been drawn to them, although it is probably not the best decision to start out on. But whether it's single player or multiplayer, I take off from my airport and begin to follow my waypoints. Now I feel like U.S. aircraft (especially the top dog F-15C) have an advantage over the Russian fighters. The Su-27 is one thing, and one that could, I feel, stand up to the Eagle. But the MiG-29 seems severely outmatched in this department.

 

I tend to try and keep my radar off at almost all times, and rely on IRST to be a bit stealthy. But other than that, I'm not sure how else to employ what the MiG has to offer. What altitudes are most effective for seeking out bogies during a CAP? Should I rely on my RWR to find targets using their radar? Should I actually have my own radar on and just constantly turn around seeking targets? What tactics do any Fulcrum pilots employ when facing tough (or any) opposition? Thanks for any help to an aspiring learner :D

 

Hey Pajeezy, congrats on already deciding to fly air to air in multipllayer, that means that you must have already got the hang of the technical stuff and have a good feel on how the radar modes, EOS, countermeasures and ECM work as well as their respective limits, also your missiles effectiveness, especially speed and range and last but not least, your jet's acceleration, rate of climb, endurance and maneuverability under different configurations. Knowing your aircraft's capabilities to the fullest extent will help you make the right decision as there are unlimited number of complex situations that you could face in a multilayer air to air arena.

 

Note that the capability of the MiG-29 is not the same in every scenario, so whether you'll be flying in a packed open server, closed mission or 1on1, your approach should be different but generally speaking, the best is to try the opposite of what you've have been doing so far which means, rely on your radar and learn active scanning, patrol as high as you can without contrailing. Sneaky tactics and EOS based style should not be your primary goal for now, this you can develop later and in a much more natural way after learning how to fight straight BVR. So regardless of who you face, just try to press as much as you can without crossing the red line and always consider holding a station and making it back safe to the home base a victory in itself especially in a MiG-29 even with no actual kills. This mindset is very important and will help you improve faster and get a good feel of your own boundaries and your machine capabilities. Ultimately, the kills will start to happen as you will learn how to push your opponent to make a fatal error which you can use to convert to a kill. So once again, do NOT try to kill, let the kills come to you, focus on increasing your SA using mainly your radar. Here a profile you could try as a good start for a CAP sortie:

 

• Altitude between 6 and 7.5km
  
• Maintain speed between 750 and 900 km/h (IAS).
  
• use ILV, 64km display, and keep active scanning between -6 and +2 elevation from side to side (pyramidal pattern).
  
• Prioritize your scan according to your RWR - remember use both orange (primary threat) and green LED's (secondary threat) as sometimes the secondary threat will be the actual most dangerous - example: An F-15C 30km away painting you in TWS from angels 40 is certainly more dangerous than a much closer and lower Su-27. Also note that anyone hard-locking you (STT) even out of range will make your RWR drop everything else! So those little green dots could actually save your life.
  
• If you lose your SA at any point, disengage, extend and come back stronger, do not let greed doom you!
  
• Remember to RTB high, fast and clean as much as possible (you'll reach mach 2 in a heartbeat)
  

[3Sqn_Sven]

Some good advice offered above, particularly finding some other mates to fly with and to use your radar at range for SA, take a long range R77 if you can, then get low.

 

I would expand on that by saying jump on the teamspeak or ventrillo voice comms server for whatever server you are flying in and tag along with them. You'll learn a lot just by listening and tagging along, particularly if there is any squad members flying together. That's how my online flying in lock on started, in 2004, and I'm still flying with the same guys I met back then.

 

I'll add that the MiG has the SA advantage only when EW datalink is available, a weapons advantage over the Eagle inside 5nm (when tally) with the R-73 and Helmet sight, and a strong capability with the R-27ET inside about 25km. The trick with a MiG is getting close enough to the Eagle to use those strengths; sneaking around low in the mountains and going for an EOS engagement can work well, even against experienced Eagle guys.

 

Against a pair or more of experienced Eagles who have a solid radar sanitisation plan, it is very hard, so use your team mates on comms to work with you and someone can make it through.

 

Going it alone is tough. 0atalink makes it easy and if datalink is on I'll often hunt alone; going against MiG's with datalink is IMO the hardest challenge as an Eagle in DCS.

[golfsierra2]

Within the Warsaw Pact Air Defense System, MiG29 mostly were operated with GCI support. GCI would identify the target(s) and MiG29 would be scrambled for interception. With their organic radar off, the MiGs would be guided for an intercept course abeam or from the rear hemisphere IOT to avoid the opponents radar. Attack would be initiated by using GCI parameters and EOS. Own radar would be used for firing radar guided missiles, not for scanning the airspace (and by that giving up the momentum of surprise).

[VanjaB]

Within the Warsaw Pact Air Defense System, MiG29 mostly were operated with GCI support. GCI would identify the target(s) and MiG29 would be scrambled for interception. With their organic radar off, the MiGs would be guided for an intercept course abeam or from the rear hemisphere IOT to avoid the opponents radar. Attack would be initiated by using GCI parameters and EOS. Own radar would be used for firing radar guided missiles, not for scanning the airspace (and by that giving up the momentum of surprise).

 

GCI is coming with the Mig21 BIS module in some form or other.

[golfsierra2]

GCI is coming with the Mig21 BIS module in some form or other.

 

GCI already is available. You just need somebody to use LotATC and tell you the information required via Teamspeak.

 

LotATC v2.1.0 (not sure if its compatible with DCS/FC3):

http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/index.php?section=downloads&subcat=32&file=1103

[Frostie]

Learn to operate at all altitudes, low in the weeds notching, medium below contrails operating normal BVR tactics and even above contrails being as stealthy as possible using friends to mask your approach. With EWR/AWACS and friends this can be very dangerous to F-15 pilots. Though it's important not to get caught high up with your pants down that means once you get painted by the enemies radar you need to get low if he's close (30/40km) at this range expect an active inbound so go immediately defensive or extend at the same altitude if he's near 100km away to remain hidden, being the silent killer is paramount when you're high. EOS is devastating at high altitude to astronaut F-15's who fly perpendicular to you.

 

When below contrails only ever use afterburners in an emergency, the MiG can get around fast enough at 95% power, this will give you a lot of playtime to loiter. Flying at all altitudes makes it harder for F-15 pilots to put everyone in the same box, too many new Russian pilots stick to 10-5000m, this makes the scanning patterns for the F-15 much more relaxed which makes it a bit of a turkey shoot for the Eagles.

 

When using the radar use it periodically, don't leave it on constant you need to just gather updates and figure out intercepts through timing. The jammer can mask you to a certain degree just remember to turn it off at burn through.

 

Just remember when the RWR is at half strength power you're easily visible and when it is down to 2 lights left you're in AIM-120 range so expect one and when they come from high to high they come very fast.

[Azrayen]

GCI already is available. You just need somebody to use LotATC and tell you the information required via Teamspeak.

Indeed :)

 

LotATC v2.1.0 (not sure if its compatible with DCS/FC3):

http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/index.php?section=downloads&subcat=32&file=1103

Nope, LotATC v2.1.0 is an old, outdated and no-more-compatible generation of the software.

Please now use LotAtc 4 DCS:

- Last topic about it is here.

- Official website is there.

 

Enjoy!

Az'

[SFAL]

Being a dedicatd MIG pilot I can concur with the others.

My advice:

Your RWR is your life line. Learn where the blidspots are.

You can easy use 90% on takeoff and loiter wih 650-750. Thats aprox 15min on drop tank...total is around 1h 15-20min with one DT

The understanding of radar operation is essential on the MIG. The S is capable of dual engagement is no ECM is employed.

NEVER fly alone aginst F15s... if u do make sure you are fast....VERY fast...

Get the proper neck mod. It will save you many many times....

[Pajeezy]

Once again, thanks everyone for all of the help! I will try to learn and employ all of these tactics. However, a couple more things. I'm not the most hardcore of the flight simmers, so I don't have any of the tech that I can only imagine everyone else uses. For instance, I find looking around quite difficult at times when I'm trying to concentrate on my heading and throttle, especially in combat. I believe I've seen something on what's called TrackIR or something. I just use either my mouse or the top button on my old Logitech 3D Pro.

 

Which brings me to the next problem. My joystick is older and not-so-fancy. Is that really a problem? I have the sensitivities all set and it responds nicely despite the fact that it's not a TM Warthog and I don't have a realistic throttle.

 

So what kind of setup does the average DCS player have/use to make it easier for everything done within the cockpit?

[fitness88]

Learn to operate at all altitudes, low in the weeds notching, medium below contrails operating normal BVR tactics and even above contrails being as stealthy as possible using friends to mask your approach. With EWR/AWACS and friends this can be very dangerous to F-15 pilots. Though it's important not to get caught high up with your pants down that means once you get painted by the enemies radar you need to get low if he's close (30/40km) at this range expect an active inbound so go immediately defensive or extend at the same altitude if he's near 100km away to remain hidden, being the silent killer is paramount when you're high. EOS is devastating at high altitude to astronaut F-15's who fly perpendicular to you.

 

When below contrails only ever use afterburners in an emergency, the MiG can get around fast enough at 95% power, this will give you a lot of playtime to loiter. Flying at all altitudes makes it harder for F-15 pilots to put everyone in the same box, too many new Russian pilots stick to 10-5000m, this makes the scanning patterns for the F-15 much more relaxed which makes it a bit of a turkey shoot for the Eagles.

 

When using the radar use it periodically, don't leave it on constant you need to just gather updates and figure out intercepts through timing. The jammer can mask you to a certain degree just remember to turn it off at burn through.

 

Just remember when the RWR is at half strength power you're easily visible and when it is down to 2 lights left you're in AIM-120 range so expect one and when they come from high to high they come very fast.

 

I find the jammer is like a beacon that gives away your position...very easy to pick up. You may not be able to lock onto a plane jamming outside 25km but you sure know where it is to stealth in. Only once someone is painting me from outside 25km do I start jamming to prevent a lock.

Also the Mig-29 has the advantage should an F-15 find itself in a knife fight with one [but it won't].

Also, everyone likes the stealth capability of the Mig-29 using the EOS. And when it has been repaired to allow for vertical scanning the Mig-29 will once again have a great stealth weapon system. But having to fly nose up to scan up and fly nose down to scan down eliminates for example, flying low or using mountain terrain cover.

[Presing]

... But having to fly nose up to scan up and fly nose down to scan down eliminates for example, flying low or using mountain terrain cover.

EOS can not be moved vertical in real life. Laser on the MiG and Su is also overpower (measuring more then 10-15km). Combat turn of MiG-29a is 18sec (internal fuel only) same like F-16 , and it's one of the best dog-fighters of 80s and 90s. On the Paris air show MiG-29 piloted by Anatoly Kvochur do combat turn close to 16sec.

[Alfa]

GCI already is available. You just need somebody to use LotATC and tell you the information required via Teamspeak.

 

There is a great deal more to the real GCI than that though.

 

In the MiG-29 GCI is integrated into the radar operation modes - it displays more target information on the HUD, affects the radar scan pattern and automatically directs it towards the datalinked target position.

 

So it not only helps the pilot to locate the target, but also to acquire it quickly and with less workload.

[SFAL]

Your avarage DCS pilot has X52 headphones and trackir4 or 5. And teamspeak.

One you go trsckir you can look back and say... how did i do without one...?

 

To operate the jets in DCS you will need a proper hotas. I dont use the programer just the inbuilt one.

When my intenet s sorted find me on tge 51st or any other pvp server...

[Pilotasso]

I miss Mig-29A multiplayer wars. :(

 

They used to be fun.

[Frostie]

I find the jammer is like a beacon that gives away your position...very easy to pick up. You may not be able to lock onto a plane jamming outside 25km but you sure know where it is to stealth in. Only once someone is painting me from outside 25km do I start jamming to prevent a lock.

If you're high up and a confident F-15 pilot paints you he'll see you just as well if you have your jammers are on or off, a MiG at 25Kft+ on the F-15 radar is almost like a come and kill me plea. A lot of Eagle pilots are a devious lot and will pretend they didn't see you high in the sky, then it all goes quiet for a while, before you know it you get close nails suddenly appear and shortly after a very fast active coming your way. I prefer to not let them see what altitude i'm flying at, takes away some of their SA at least, in a hectic environment that's a big bonus. Of course if you're cold you want your jammers off.

[3Sqn_Sven]

Dude - You NEED a track IR. Like SFAL said, once you have it you will wonder how you ever flew without it. Having used both good and poor joysticks myself, I would rate the Track IR as the most important item for you to upgrade, especially as a MiG driver as you are handcuffing your within visual range strength of the helmet mounted sight.

 

If you don't have much money, get a track IR 3 or 4 second hand.

 

HOTAS after that will be the next purchase, heaps of good info in the forums on that.

[seikdel]

Alternatively, download freetrack for free, buy $6 of IR LEDs, and solder them to a baseball cap. Mine has served me well for years =)