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Idea: Display turn rate / radius data for training


Hawg11
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I notice a bunch of people getting into sims (online) still don't understand corner speed. It would be nice if a "corner speed" tutorial included a virtual instructor who tells you when your plane is at maximum turning effectiveness. Or, at the very least, it would be nice if the player could toggle on/off the raw data (turn rate & radius) from within the cockpit.

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Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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I have been into sims for well over 10 years and I still have problems with this.

 

I for one, would benefit from something like this.

 

Fox has made a bullseye program from the .lua exports. I wonder if a similar tool could be made for this?

 

Unfortunately, I do not know what the bullseye program is, but I think it is possible to make an indicator of the turn rate and/or full mechanical energy using lua exports.

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I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel. The only difference is, it didn't show this in real time, it dumped the data to a text file and there's no radius calculations. And! This is only for sustained turn rates, not instantaneous.

 

FBR: fuel burn rate, measured in kg / second

IAS, TAS: velocity, measured in km/h

Turn Rate: degrees per second

Vertspd: the average vertical speed for this calculation

 

FlightTest: Su-27, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 05:00:12 PM
 9400 KG fuel, 135 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 110, Flaps: 0

IAS dev TAS    Alt VertSpd  G     Turn Rate  Fuel  FBR(kg/s) RPM
358  3  394     72  0.3     3.03  [ 14.7 ]   8606  11.1      110
355  2  391     65  0.4     3.03  [ 14.9 ]   8338  10.9      110
357  3  392     53 -1.0     3.06  [ 15.0 ]   8074  11.0      110
354  3  390     54  0.6     3.12  [ 15.4 ]   7551  11.0      110
352  4  387     56 -0.6     3.11  [ 15.5 ]   7293  10.9      110
356  2  392     57 -1.1     3.21  [ 15.8 ]   7040  11.1      110
357  2  392     65 -0.8     3.22  [ 15.9 ]   6787  11.1      110
357  2  392     51  0.8     3.35  [ 16.6 ]   6051  11.1      110
358  1  393     56  0.2     3.38  [ 16.7 ]   5809  11.0      110
354  4  389     69 -1.5     3.44  [ 17.3 ]   5111  11.0      110
355  1  391     43  0.8     3.56  [ 17.8 ]   4649  11.1      110
355  2  390     55 -0.5     3.59  [ 17.9 ]   4429  10.9      110
354  2  389     73  0.3     3.61  [ 18.0 ]   4209  11.0      110
355  3  390     88  0.5     3.64  [ 18.2 ]   3989  11.0      110
358  3  393     95 -0.6     3.70  [ 18.4 ]   3770  10.7      110
357  1  393     81  1.1     3.80  [ 18.8 ]   3562  11.2      110
357  2  393     74  0.7     3.80  [ 19.0 ]   3348  10.7      110
358  1  394     87  0.9     3.86  [ 19.1 ]   3145  11.1      110
355  1  391    116  0.6     3.95  [ 19.7 ]   2532  10.9      110
354  3  391     85 -0.6     4.01  [ 20.3 ]   2138  11.1      110
357  3  393     77 -0.5     4.12  [ 20.6 ]   1941  10.9      110
358  1  393     93  0.5     4.13  [ 20.7 ]   1749  11.1      110
357  2  393    119  0.3     4.15  [ 20.8 ]   1557  10.8      110
352  3  389    108  4.6     4.31  [ 21.8 ]    819  10.9      110
354  3  390    110  2.9     4.36  [ 22.1 ]    639  11.1      110
357  3  394    110 -0.0     4.46  [ 22.4 ]    459  10.9      110

 

FlightTest: F-15C, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 04:41:27 PM
 6103 KG fuel, 109 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 103, Flaps: 0

IAS dev TAS    Alt VertSpd  G     Turn Rate  Fuel  FBR(kg/s) RPM
463  3  491    121 -1.7     4.06  [ 16.2 ]   5921  8.7      110
461  2  489    121  1.0     4.07  [ 16.4 ]   5729  8.6      110
462  2  489    117  0.8     4.12  [ 16.6 ]   5541  8.5      110
464  2  491    120 -0.4     4.19  [ 16.8 ]   5356  8.6      110
465  7  489     76  0.9     4.24  [ 17.2 ]   4990  8.7      110
471  3  494     79  0.5     4.36  [ 17.4 ]   4809  8.5      110
469  2  491    105 -0.4     4.36  [ 17.5 ]   4631  8.6      110
466  3  490    119  3.9     4.36  [ 17.6 ]   4454  8.6      110
469  3  493    107 -0.2     4.45  [ 17.9 ]   4278  8.7      110
473  4  495     79 -1.6     4.54  [ 18.2 ]   4102  8.5      110
476  3  497     90 -1.4     4.63  [ 18.3 ]   3933  8.8      110
474  6  496     97 -0.8     4.62  [ 18.4 ]   3760  8.6      110
469  8  492    106  3.0     4.66  [ 18.7 ]   3428  8.5      106
468  5  490    118 -2.3     4.77  [ 19.4 ]   2945  8.8      110
472  1  494    115 -2.7     5.04  [ 20.3 ]   2316  8.5      110
471  4  494    145  0.8     5.09  [ 20.3 ]   2165  8.8      110
469 10  491    141  1.5     5.05  [ 20.6 ]   2011  8.6      110
475  1  498    106  0.1     5.32  [ 21.2 ]   1714  8.6      110
475  2  497    123 -0.3     5.34  [ 21.3 ]   1567  8.7      110
475  4  497    149  1.7     5.34  [ 21.4 ]   1421  8.5      110
468  6  492    178  2.3     5.37  [ 21.8 ]   1137  8.5      110
474  9  497    155 -2.9     5.53  [ 22.0 ]    996  8.5      110
474  2  497    147 -0.8     5.67  [ 22.7 ]    720  8.6      110
474  2  496    157  2.4     5.72  [ 22.9 ]    583  8.4      110

 

So, till we get a DPS/Radius display for Lockon, maybe this will help :)

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I'm not too familiar with windows programming. So, the problem I see here is making a window show up over Lockon, since Lockon likes to stay on top. I saw someone had a mod with a Tool window that worked, forget what his mod was called (something to do with recording a flight then sending it as a track, then it could fly the plane for you).

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Guest IguanaKing

Hmmm...I wonder if this could be something one of the add-on gurus could accomplish. It seems like maybe the sim data could be extracted to a virtual FDR, and then show a graphic representation. Not hugely useful to a ground-pounder like me, but the a2a guys would definitely benefit from it.

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I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel.

 

Umm...

 

WHAT? :icon_eek: :icon_pray

 

That's AMAZING! How useful would THAT be, when writing the Lock On manual?! We could tell people exactly what are the best turn rates, climb speeds...

And not just pulling numbers from websites about the real jets, but actually useful information about how to fly the plane in the sim!

How long have you been using that little gem? :)

 

-SK

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I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel. The only difference is, it didn't show this in real time, it dumped the data to a text file and there's no radius calculations. And! This is only for sustained turn rates, not instantaneous.

 

FBR: fuel burn rate, measured in kg / second

IAS, TAS: velocity, measured in km/h

Turn Rate: degrees per second

Vertspd: the average vertical speed for this calculation

 

FlightTest: Su-27, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 05:00:12 PM
 9400 KG fuel, 135 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 110, Flaps: 0

IAS dev TAS    Alt VertSpd  G     Turn Rate  Fuel  FBR(kg/s) RPM
358  3  394     72  0.3     3.03  [ 14.7 ]   8606  11.1      110
355  2  391     65  0.4     3.03  [ 14.9 ]   8338  10.9      110
357  3  392     53 -1.0     3.06  [ 15.0 ]   8074  11.0      110
354  3  390     54  0.6     3.12  [ 15.4 ]   7551  11.0      110
352  4  387     56 -0.6     3.11  [ 15.5 ]   7293  10.9      110
356  2  392     57 -1.1     3.21  [ 15.8 ]   7040  11.1      110
357  2  392     65 -0.8     3.22  [ 15.9 ]   6787  11.1      110
357  2  392     51  0.8     3.35  [ 16.6 ]   6051  11.1      110
358  1  393     56  0.2     3.38  [ 16.7 ]   5809  11.0      110
354  4  389     69 -1.5     3.44  [ 17.3 ]   5111  11.0      110
355  1  391     43  0.8     3.56  [ 17.8 ]   4649  11.1      110
355  2  390     55 -0.5     3.59  [ 17.9 ]   4429  10.9      110
354  2  389     73  0.3     3.61  [ 18.0 ]   4209  11.0      110
355  3  390     88  0.5     3.64  [ 18.2 ]   3989  11.0      110
358  3  393     95 -0.6     3.70  [ 18.4 ]   3770  10.7      110
357  1  393     81  1.1     3.80  [ 18.8 ]   3562  11.2      110
357  2  393     74  0.7     3.80  [ 19.0 ]   3348  10.7      110
358  1  394     87  0.9     3.86  [ 19.1 ]   3145  11.1      110
355  1  391    116  0.6     3.95  [ 19.7 ]   2532  10.9      110
354  3  391     85 -0.6     4.01  [ 20.3 ]   2138  11.1      110
357  3  393     77 -0.5     4.12  [ 20.6 ]   1941  10.9      110
358  1  393     93  0.5     4.13  [ 20.7 ]   1749  11.1      110
357  2  393    119  0.3     4.15  [ 20.8 ]   1557  10.8      110
352  3  389    108  4.6     4.31  [ 21.8 ]    819  10.9      110
354  3  390    110  2.9     4.36  [ 22.1 ]    639  11.1      110
357  3  394    110 -0.0     4.46  [ 22.4 ]    459  10.9      110

 

FlightTest: F-15C, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 04:41:27 PM
 6103 KG fuel, 109 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 103, Flaps: 0

IAS dev TAS    Alt VertSpd  G     Turn Rate  Fuel  FBR(kg/s) RPM
463  3  491    121 -1.7     4.06  [ 16.2 ]   5921  8.7      110
461  2  489    121  1.0     4.07  [ 16.4 ]   5729  8.6      110
462  2  489    117  0.8     4.12  [ 16.6 ]   5541  8.5      110
464  2  491    120 -0.4     4.19  [ 16.8 ]   5356  8.6      110
465  7  489     76  0.9     4.24  [ 17.2 ]   4990  8.7      110
471  3  494     79  0.5     4.36  [ 17.4 ]   4809  8.5      110
469  2  491    105 -0.4     4.36  [ 17.5 ]   4631  8.6      110
466  3  490    119  3.9     4.36  [ 17.6 ]   4454  8.6      110
469  3  493    107 -0.2     4.45  [ 17.9 ]   4278  8.7      110
473  4  495     79 -1.6     4.54  [ 18.2 ]   4102  8.5      110
476  3  497     90 -1.4     4.63  [ 18.3 ]   3933  8.8      110
474  6  496     97 -0.8     4.62  [ 18.4 ]   3760  8.6      110
469  8  492    106  3.0     4.66  [ 18.7 ]   3428  8.5      106
468  5  490    118 -2.3     4.77  [ 19.4 ]   2945  8.8      110
472  1  494    115 -2.7     5.04  [ 20.3 ]   2316  8.5      110
471  4  494    145  0.8     5.09  [ 20.3 ]   2165  8.8      110
469 10  491    141  1.5     5.05  [ 20.6 ]   2011  8.6      110
475  1  498    106  0.1     5.32  [ 21.2 ]   1714  8.6      110
475  2  497    123 -0.3     5.34  [ 21.3 ]   1567  8.7      110
475  4  497    149  1.7     5.34  [ 21.4 ]   1421  8.5      110
468  6  492    178  2.3     5.37  [ 21.8 ]   1137  8.5      110
474  9  497    155 -2.9     5.53  [ 22.0 ]    996  8.5      110
474  2  497    147 -0.8     5.67  [ 22.7 ]    720  8.6      110
474  2  496    157  2.4     5.72  [ 22.9 ]    583  8.4      110

 

So, till we get a DPS/Radius display for Lockon, maybe this will help :)

 

 

Nice work!

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Thank you guys!

And SK, about the manual idea, oh yeah definately!

 

In fact a script could be made to try a whole range of tests, and when the plane would run out of fuel, make the pilot eject, recover, do another test. All of this could be done in accelerated time also.

 

I had this script for awhile, but it was just to see if it could be done. So, the code doesn't use very good methods for finding roots, for example, the perfect bank angle for a given speed. It works and keeps a relatively good climb/descent rate, but that's why I threw that climb/descent rate in the tables - to visually check the average climb/dive rates. So, the movements are smooth, but not as smooth as they could be.

 

Referring to Hawg's idea, it would be very useful if someone could do a maneuver and see, in real time, how effective it is. I think this would be useful for everyone, not just newer flyers.

 

Someone who also might have info on a DPS/Radius program is Phil_C6.

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Here is a technology demonstrator I just made.

http://www.asnr47.dsl.pipex.com/files/bubl/LOPerformance.zip

 

Extract the zip wherever you want and launch Performance.exe.

Do not minimize the tool window, also LockOn should be in window (not fullscreen) mode.

 

It displays in real time turn radius in meters, rate of turn, and total energy as the equivavlent altitude in meters. The radius and rate are not necessarily in horizontal plane. Actually it shows instantaneous radius and angular velocity of the longitudal axis of the aircraft. For example in a vertical maneuver (like loop) it still displays non-zero rate of turn. The indicated turn radius is limited to 5000, as otherwise in straight and level flight it would have to say 'Infinity' or something like that :)

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I'm not too familiar with windows programming. So, the problem I see here is making a window show up over Lockon, since Lockon likes to stay on top. I saw someone had a mod with a Tool window that worked, forget what his mod was called (something to do with recording a flight then sending it as a track, then it could fly the plane for you).

 

I guess, you are talking about Phantom Control and Show Controls :)

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=13321&highlight=phantom+control

 

The tool window of Show Controls does not work when LockOn is in fullscreen (you have to uncheck the fullscreen button in LockOn graphics settings). I was planning to use overlay to fix this issue, but did not manage to make it yet.

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Here is a technology demonstrator I just made.

http://www.asnr47.dsl.pipex.com/files/bubl/LOPerformance.zip

 

Extract the zip wherever you want and launch Performance.exe.

Do not minimize the tool window, also LockOn should be in window (not fullscreen) mode.

 

It displays in real time turn radius in meters, rate of turn, and total energy as the equivavlent altitude in meters. The radius and rate are not necessarily in horizontal plane. Actually it shows instantaneous radius and angular velocity of the longitudal axis of the aircraft. For example in a vertical maneuver (like loop) it still displays non-zero rate of turn. The indicated turn radius is limited to 5000, as otherwise in straight and level flight it would have to say 'Infinity' or something like that :)

 

 

Hi Bublik. Great stuff!

Will this work for 1.02?

Which folder do the files go in to? I tried guessing and placed the files in various spots to no avail. Also, the .exe has a windows warning after opening that says, "The window does not have scroll bars." Is that normal?

 

Thanks

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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Jetfire, that is some cool stuff. Is it an AI plane flying or your own? If so, could it be scripted for multiple planes? I'm a bit confused on that point. If it is AI, do you realize the Dynamic Campaign potential you have there?

 

I miss flying with you bud. You're one of the best online pilots I ever flew with (if you're the Jetfire I'm thinking of).

 

Hey, I finally got that TrackIR...:-)

 

GG Tharos,

Roger that. I just went back and read that. But having flown with Jet, I can't imagine him testing so far out of corner...and I can't imagine getting a turn rate that quick if it were kph.

 

Jetfire, kph? or mph?

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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He's doing it by using the LUA 'import' functions for stick and throttle.

 

He 'reads out' the AOA and speed, and so on, and adjusts the flight profile accordingly ... he has in effect created a special little autopilot. It's something that had been theorized before, JF is the first one to admit implementing it :)

 

You could for example theoretically program a 'fly by wire' system for your jet with various modes using this that would override your input if you were about to blow the AoA for example, etc etc. ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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He's doing it by using the LUA 'import' functions for stick and throttle.

 

He 'reads out' the AOA and speed, and so on, and adjusts the flight profile accordingly ... he has in effect created a special little autopilot. It's something that had been theorized before, JF is the first one to admit implementing it :)

 

You could for example theoretically program a 'fly by wire' system for your jet with various modes using this that would override your input if you were about to blow the AoA for example, etc etc. ;)

 

Cool! So, can it be set to have the pilot eject automatically after x number of rounds are pumped into the plane? hehe.

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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LOL! Well, that's not so easy. Jetfire created a 'blinking lights' mod, which was actually pretty much a hack specifically because LOMAC does not import keyboard signals of all things. :P

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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LOL! Well, that's not so easy. Jetfire created a 'blinking lights' mod, which was actually pretty much a hack specifically because LOMAC does not import keyboard signals of all things. :P

 

GG,

You seem to know your way around the .lua code a bit. Any idea if there's any openings to be able to add AI aircraft via a script, rather than in the mission editor (preferably, "on the fly" during a game)?

 

This would reduce some of the FPS problems most of us experience when we add a lot of AI in the ME.

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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Unfortuantely no ... 'been asking for that for a while, as well as a few other items ( ...SAM control via LUA .. so I can have brothers add a SMITE button to his ATC console ;) )

 

Ideally it would be nice to not only enable the addition of vehicles via lua, but also to be able to alter their orders/targets/waypoints on the fly also. As it stands, you can read them, but nothing else.

 

This would also allow for LUA controlled respawns etc. For example, suppose you have a mission with A2G and A2A mixed in, and you want this mission to last say 24 hours. A few good players can wipe the map clean inside an hour or so typically ... and in general all sorts of things can go bad.

 

You can find out which units have been destroyed via LUA typically, and 'respawn' them after they had been destroeyd some time.

 

In fact you could generate several groups of vehicles and pick one to spawn at random, so you might not see always the same target pop up at the same location, etc. This would make good CAS and Interdiction roving missions.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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smite button...hehe

Indeed, the possiblities could be virtually endless, if this .lua coding were enabled. (I'm thining audio files each time a ground object spawns. Player gets a call from JSTARS. "Enfield11, CAS request, 3 artillery units east of Kislovodak. Fac reports AAA in the area.")

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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Yep, that would be pretty cool too, you could certainly do this :)

 

The problem here of course is that you must download the sounds with the mission, which could be an issue in and of itself for online missions.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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