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DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion


Barrett_g

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I found a great Thesis online that some may like to read here and has some good research and Comparisons, such as Maneuvering Performance Comparison of the P-47C Thunderbolt vs ME 109 Gustav Altitude 25,000 feet etc.

 

It's based against the 109 G models tho.

 

Interesting that a P-47 had the most air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe. So she's not just a ground attack now, I'm keen to do some boom and zooms on the 109s.

 

Quote

"In many cases, particularly late in the war, the German fighter pilot under attack would perform a split-S maneuver to dive away from combat, a maneuver that worked very well against opposing fighters early in the war. Such an action against a Thunderbolt, however, would be a deadly choice because the P-47, being very heavy and powered by a 2,000 horsepower engine could out-dive any other fighter in the sky.

 

Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe, was particularly adept at this strategy. The top scoring ace in the European Theater, Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th, brought down 28 German aircraft with his Thunderbolt."

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-07022008-013657/unrestricted/courter_thesis.pdf

 

GoshgoshGOSH! It's from the times of Aces over Europe that I'm craving a properly simulated P-47! :D

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GoshgoshGOSH! It's from the times of Aces over Europe that I'm craving a properly simulated P-47! :D

 

Agreed. I really hope they get it right with this one.

 

The P-47 was known as being one of, if not the toughest fighters in the war. It was also a very capable fighter and could hold its own in a fight.

 

I'm gonna be very disappointing if they don't model it's durability, including it's engine durability.

 

The P&W was known to be a very tough engine.

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Agreed. I really hope they get it right with this one.

 

The P-47 was known as being one of, if not the toughest fighters in the war. It was also a very capable fighter and could hold its own in a fight.

 

I'm gonna be very disappointing if they don't model it's durability, including it's engine durability.

 

The P&W was known to be a very tough engine.

 

While I agree regarding loss of wings etc, wing paneling should still be able to be blown off from mine shells, especially 30 mm.

 

I don't think a P-47 would survive more than 2 mine shells hitting its wing, considering a Spitfire would not survive even one.

 

 

From the test report, paraphrased: "Probably lethal due to structural damage (= aerodynamic forces finishing the job and ripping off the wing), definitely lethal due to control loss (= asymmetric lift dooming the plane)."

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While I agree regarding loss of wings etc, wing paneling should still be able to be blown off from mine shells, especially 30 mm.

 

I don't think a P-47 would survive more than 2 mine shells hitting its wing, considering a Spitfire would not survive even one.

 

 

From the test report, paraphrased: "Probably lethal due to structural damage (= aerodynamic forces finishing the job and ripping off the wing), definitely lethal due to control loss (= asymmetric lift dooming the plane)."

 

Depends on where it hits and at what angle. You'd also have to look at the structure of the specific aircraft.

 

I've read of accounts of the Jug taking more than 20, 20mm shell hits and it still made it back home.

 

The Spitfires wing structure was weaker than the P-47s, but like I said, it just depends.

 

p47-flaps.jpg

 

395-rife-l-wing.jpg

 

395-rife-rt-wing.jpg

 

Keep in mind, I'm not saying the Jug should be invincible, I'm just saying it should be very tough as it was in real life.

 

It should definitely be tougher than any ww2 aircraft we have in the sim right now.


Edited by Legion
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I found a great Thesis online that some may like to read here and has some good research and Comparisons, such as Maneuvering Performance Comparison of the P-47C Thunderbolt vs ME 109 Gustav Altitude 25,000 feet etc.

 

It's based against the 109 G models tho.

 

Interesting that a P-47 had the most air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe. So she's not just a ground attack now, I'm keen to do some boom and zooms on the 109s.

 

Quote

"In many cases, particularly late in the war, the German fighter pilot under attack would perform a split-S maneuver to dive away from combat, a maneuver that worked very well against opposing fighters early in the war. Such an action against a Thunderbolt, however, would be a deadly choice because the P-47, being very heavy and powered by a 2,000 horsepower engine could out-dive any other fighter in the sky.

 

Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe, was particularly adept at this strategy. The top scoring ace in the European Theater, Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th, brought down 28 German aircraft with his Thunderbolt."

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-07022008-013657/unrestricted/courter_thesis.pdf

 

However this isn't representative of DCS as Luftwaffe fighters are 35mph faster than what the Americans were combating in early 1944. All fighters in this game will have a service ceiling of 40,000ft+. Americans no longer have a 4000-5000ft service ceiling advantage. Luftwaffe fighters can now produce 400HP+ then before, while the Mustang has no boost. P-47 increases power by about 300hp+.

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However this isn't representative of DCS as Luftwaffe fighters are 35mph faster than what the Americans were combating in early 1944. All fighters in this game will have a service ceiling of 40,000ft+. Americans no longer have a 4000-5000ft service ceiling advantage. Luftwaffe fighters can now produce 400HP+ then before, while the Mustang has no boost. P-47 increases power by about 300hp+.

 

 

At 64-65 inches the jug will be producing 2550-2600 hp. Not an insignificant increase.

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For the Jugs weight 300hp+ is only a around 15% increase. While German aircraft wereally receiving a 30% increase in power.

 

Which is going hand in hand with lowered critical altitudes. The P-47 will still hold the high ground and it will significantly outspeed any German plane starting at ~5-6 km.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p47d-44-1-level.jpg

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However this isn't representative of DCS as Luftwaffe fighters are 35mph faster than what the Americans were combating in early 1944. All fighters in this game will have a service ceiling of 40,000ft+. Americans no longer have a 4000-5000ft service ceiling advantage. Luftwaffe fighters can now produce 400HP+ then before, while the Mustang has no boost. P-47 increases power by about 300hp+.

 

My main point here tho was...

"Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe"

 

The P-47 would be considered the underdog now in DCS for air quake and back then in the War.

 

Guys such as Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th that shot down 28 aircraft would have mixed it up with all sorts of different types of german aircraft and variances "throughout the war" and they still managed "more air-to-air victories" than any other unit in Europe.

 

Tactics using the P-47 is going to be very very key here. You always have to have an energy advantage and you should be able to hold your own or disengage by diving away.

 

No aircraft could out dive the P-47 and none had the same maneuverability at these very high speeds.

 

The P-47 will be like a freight train with eight .50 caliber guns with thirty seconds of fire (3400 rounds)

 

That's a whole lot of get some right there...

 

t8.jpg

 

We also need the "New damage model" so the .50s have good effect.

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Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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HvS4NdzEBB0

 

 

Uncrating and Field Assembly of the P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter - 1943

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2D3k0sJ8HM

Like how every part was thought out and utilized including the packing crates for assembling.

 

How To Fly The P-47 - Pilot Familiarization (1943)

 

I love these old videos, different time back then, that's for sure.

 

Y_dYBOgLbHc

 

EDIT: See the P-47 in full action in this video

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Edited by David OC

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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Well I'm sure DCS's intentions of the P-47 are to advertise it as a ground attack aircraft :/. Which is fair since in late 1944 only 4 fighter groups were flying the P-47 while 2 were already in transitioning to the P-51.

 

Your are only talking about the 8th AF, the 9th AF had eleven Fighter Groups flying the P-47 in late 44. The 9th AF was (Became) a tactical AF but it still shot down a lot of German aircraft in the ETO.

 

I sure hope that ED don't focus solely on its ground attack ability, it was initially designed as a high alt interceptor, but there was not a lot of that going on the allied side in 44.. I do have high hopes though since the foundations of the design were from a Russian :)

 

JD

AKA_MattE


Edited by Jugdriver
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  • 2 weeks later...

Would I be right in thinking that the future improved damage model might be a huge part of the connection we need for the appeal to be villified? So i'm saying , all these stories about the cylinders popping through the cowling and shot out and flying into trees and so on... to make that dream be realised we need something back from ED on the damage modelling?

 

Just thinking out loud. Seems like the pilots appeal was the aircraft's ruggedness, survivability, non twitchiness, weaponry, rather than the sleek lines, and so on.

 

Perhaps virtual pilots would love the wide spaced wheels and ability to do pirouettes without face planting it?!

People love the Jug for the same reason people love the Warthog... it's just a very badass airplane all around.

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IMHO the P-47 is way more current in the today's DCS setting and the aircraft is not only legendary, but has some important WWII aces and has a large following in the sim community. It would not be my style of flying, but I would not mind to fly in formation or to be on the other side in a Bf 109.


Edited by SeaW0lf

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Alot more P-47s flew over Normandy in 1944 than hurricanes did. Plus the big looks better and is much more multi role with tanks, rockets and bombs.

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Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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