God-like uber l77t RL Su25 pilot?

[ARM505]

Take a look at this scan from a book on the Su25 I have, in particular the bit I drew some rather odd arrows around.

 

Here's a link to it in case I botched this forums attachment util!:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/ARM505/Su25Tale1.jpg

 

How on earth did this guy SHOOT DOWN A STINGER, not only once, but twice and using unguided rockets the second time, and cannon the first?!? Surely they wanted to say he shot the guys before they launched? I doubt you could even see the actual missile in flight, let alone shoot it down! CIWS Pavlyukov they called him after that I suppose....I don't buy this story as it's written there, they must have it wrong.

 

Anyone have any clarity on these supposed events?

[ARM505]

And while I'm on it, why can I not put out the fires in my engines at all? I would love to have something like:

 

1) Get hit by irritating Stinger which often causes an engine fire

2) Option 1: Eject

Option 2: Wait around and see if the fire goes out, risking explosive death

 

I've just been reading how the Su25 was upgraded from the initial T8 pre-production models sent to Afghanistan with armour plate between the engines, and most importantly FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!

 

The same goes for the A-10 etc. We need useable extinguishers, then we know, if they didn't work, get out!

[britgliderpilot]

You can do it by being:

 

1. Not human, or just sodding lucky. Probability of hitting a guided missile in flight with dumb rockets without A2A sighting = 0%.

 

2. Soviet Propaganda.

 

Sorry, but it's the most likely reason. He's just too heroic . . . . .

[juan_mol]

I think that what they tried to say is that he killed the Stinger guy on the ground and not the missile itself while flying. But you are right, they need to rephrase that because right now it makes you think the stinger missiles where destroyed in mid air.

Nice read though.

[britgliderpilot]

And while I'm on it, why can I not put out the fires in my engines at all? I would love to have something like:

 

1) Get hit by irritating Stinger which often causes an engine fire

2) Option 1: Eject

Option 2: Wait around and see if the fire goes out, risking explosive death

 

I've just been reading how the Su25 was upgraded from the initial T8 pre-production models sent to Afghanistan with armour plate between the engines, and most importantly FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!

 

The same goes for the A-10 etc. We need useable extinguishers, then we know, if they didn't work, get out!

 

You've got a turbine temperature gauge, haven't you?

 

If you shut down the engine using the correct key combo, you'll cut the fuel flow to the fire and you just might have some success. Keep feeding it with fuel and you won't . . . . it's not like the SFM jets whose engines just shut down when they take a hit.

[britgliderpilot]

I think that what they tried to say is that he killed the Stinger guy on the ground and not the missile itself while flying. But you are right, they need to rephrase that because right now it makes you think the stinger missiles where destroyed in mid air.

Nice read though.

 

I disagree - the text clearly indicates that he shot down a missile that had been launched.

 

Whether that's a misunderstanding/exaggeration of the true story is a different question, but that's what it says.

[Caretaker]

He was also known as Konstantin "Tunguska" Pavlyukov :icon_mrgr

 

Yes sounds pretty unlikely, as in, "no way". There are apparently enough remarkable stories about the Su-25 and their pilots in Afghanistan though, as these images show. But chasing Stingers sounds more like something with Owen Wilson involved...

[britgliderpilot]

He was also known as Konstantin "Tunguska" Pavlyukov :icon_mrgr

 

Yes sounds pretty unlikely, as in, "no way". There are apparently enough remarkable stories about the Su-25 and their pilots in Afghanistan though, as these images show. But chasing Stingers sounds more like something with Owen Wilson involved...

 

You're . . . . . you're not saying that missile chase wasn't real, are you?

[ARM505]

You've got a turbine temperature gauge, haven't you?

 

If you shut down the engine using the correct key combo, you'll cut the fuel flow to the fire and you just might have some success. Keep feeding it with fuel and you won't . . . . it's not like the SFM jets whose engines just shut down when they take a hit.

 

I have tried that, but it seems a bit random. Actually, I feel like it makes no difference at all, it could just be some bad luck though!

 

But the point is, that we need to have some sort of decision 'event'. In other words, I could follow the logic of - Engine Fire, discharge the bottle, if still on fire after 30 secs discharge other sides bottle, if still on fire, EJECT. Right now it's - Engine Fire, shutdown engine, hmmmm, maybe it will go out, just wait a bit mo..BOOOOOM! Dammit!

 

And anyway, having EGT, ITT, TIT (whatever they want to call it on this one!) alone doesn't make up for the fact that we just don't have functioning extinguishers in this sim! A basic model would do: Pull extinguisher, and there is XX % chance the fire goes out, something like that.

[Vosxod]

Did you read it completely and find that this guy killed him self and approahing enemies with hand grenade? Did he shoot or not those stingers who knows, but the guys IS The Hero of the Soviet Union!

[Caretaker]

You're . . . . . you're not saying that missile chase wasn't real, are you?

 

Pictures don't lie, do they? ;)

 

In fact I just saw that scene for the first time recently, after reading about it in sim forums for several years. Still didn't prepare me for that! ;) It's really true that there are Roadrunner episodes with more realistic missile behaviour than that... and the smoke effects usually look more convincing there, too :icon_mrgr

 

It has actually replaced "Airport '79" as #1 in my unofficial list of "movies with the most horrible missile evasion scene" (where Alain Delon fires a flare gun out of the Concorde's cockpit window...).

[Starlight]

But chasing Stingers sounds more like something with Owen Wilson involved...

 

 

WIIIIIIIILSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON! :D

[Starlight]

Pictures don't lie, do they? ;)

 

In fact I just saw that scene for the first time recently, after reading about it in sim forums for several years. Still didn't prepare me for that! ;) It's really true that there are Roadrunner episodes with more realistic missile behaviour than that... and the smoke effects usually look more convincing there, too :icon_mrgr

 

It has actually replaced "Airport '79" as #1 in my unofficial list of "movies with the most horrible missile evasion scene" (where Alain Delon fires a flare gun out of the Concorde's cockpit window...).

 

 

99% of movies suck when talking about realism.

 

Firefox, TopGun, IronEagle (I, II and III), while being famous, they really suck if you look for realism. They're just action movies.... but there are many more... I've just quoted some of the "best", because at least they have some decent footage...

 

That of Behind enemy lines is a wonderful chase... they really don't know what rocket burnout means :)

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

(where Alain Delon fires a flare gun out of the Concorde's cockpit window...).

 

Yeah I remember that scene. Just remind me again - did Concorde had an opening side window so the pilot could pay the attendant for fuel or for when he was at the drive-through at Burger King, I can never remember which.....

[SUBS17]

Ejection is not an option in Afghanistan thats why the pilot tried to fly back.

[Caretaker]

Yeah I remember that scene. Just remind me again - did Concorde had an opening side window so the pilot could pay the attendant for fuel or for when he was at the drive-through at Burger King, I can never remember which.....

 

Simply air conditioning I guess - nothing like breeze of fresh air at Mach 2.

No doubt that many aviation-related movies can be painful to watch...

 

 

 

(Sorry for derailing the thread! But I still don't think it's possible to hit even one supersonic missile with the cannon(s) or even less, unguided missiles).

[ARM505]

No, I agree. But it's good to know most of us have seen so many rubbish flying movies, don't you think? ;)

[dogtoes]

Take a look at this scan from a book on the Su25 I have, in particular the bit I drew some rather odd arrows around.

 

 

What book is that? I could go for a good Su-25 book for my shelves!

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

[23rd_Drago]

Take a look at this scan from a book on the Su25 I have, in particular the bit I drew some rather odd arrows around.

 

Here's a link to it in case I botched this forums attachment util!:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/ARM505/Su25Tale1.jpg

 

How on earth did this guy SHOOT DOWN A STINGER, not only once, but twice and using unguided rockets the second time, and cannon the first?!? Surely they wanted to say he shot the guys before they launched? I doubt you could even see the actual missile in flight, let alone shoot it down! CIWS Pavlyukov they called him after that I suppose....I don't buy this story as it's written there, they must have it wrong.

 

Anyone have any clarity on these supposed events?

 

If he’s the Konstantin Pavlyukov I think he is, then his sister and I went from kindergarten thru 4th grade together. I know she had an older brother Kostya, who was a pilot and was killed in Afghanistan around that time period. Under what circumstances he was killed or what he did in Afghanistan I don’t know... She was however the best looking girl in school. Anyway don’t mind me… just found this interesting.

[Starlight]

Simply air conditioning I guess - nothing like breeze of fresh air at Mach 2.

No doubt that many aviation-related movies can be painful to watch...

 

 

 

(Sorry for derailing the thread! But I still don't think it's possible to hit even one supersonic missile with the cannon(s) or even less, unguided missiles).

 

That's an incredible movie Caretaker!

"My squadron ships out tomorrow, we're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri, at 1800 hours. We're comin in from the north, below their radar"

"When will you be back?"

"I can't tell you that, it's classified"

 

:D

[3Sqn_Fudd]

Nice i like that.... The guy shot down two stingers

 

What a joke....

[Hawg11]

99% of movies suck when talking about realism.

 

Firefox, TopGun...

 

Hi.

 

I'm just curious what parts you feel are THAT far fetched in Top Gun.

 

I understand having MiGs which are actually F-5's is unrealistic. The movie was made 5 years prior to the end of the Cold War, it's not likely Hollywood would have access to a modern looking MiG.

 

And, OK, the HUD gun cross and missile lock symbology is probably not realistic either. It's possible, at the time, that this was classified. If anyone's got footage of F14 HUD tapes. please post a link.

 

There are a lot of things that are pretty realistic, like "hitting the brakes and letting him fly right by."

 

See the stories of Randy "Duke" Cunningham and Ray Bourgholtzer:

 

The two fighters separated and came back at each other again, performing two up-and-down maneuvers, trying to get on each other's tail. The MiG stayed with the Phantom every step of the way. Cunningham thought: "He's gonna get lucky one of these times."

Then Cunningham cut power and extended his airbrakes, forcing the MiG to overshoot. The MiG pilot went into a steep dive to escape and Cunningham followed. The range was long and Sidewinders could be easily confounded by ground heat sources on a downward shot, but Cunningham launched anyway. Somewhat to his surprise, the missile went home and the MiG exploded.

 

"Duke" Cunningham later became the commander of Top Gun. It would only make sense that he would teach what works IRL to his students, no matter how absurd it may seem.

 

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf4_2.html

http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/eaglebios/02bios/cunnin02.htm

 

Ray Bourgholtzer, who flew F7F-3Ns out of Kangnung, wrote, "I knew John Andre and he flew both F7F's and Corsairs. He was flying a Corsair when he shot down the Yak. It had come in behind him and when he realized he was being attacked. He dropped wheels and flaps, and cut the throttle. This caused the Yak to overshoot him and when he did, Andre then increased his throttle and pulled up the wheels and flaps and stayed with the Yak and shot him down with his 4 20mm cannon."

 

http://www.kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/VM...witwasa1ac.html

 

As for Goose's death as a result of ejection, note the following from this Forensic Science Journal:

http://journalsip.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/2148.htm

"The majority of fatalities occurred during “out-of-envelope” ejections...two cases of hangman's type cervical neck fracture were observed during high-speed ejection."

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Old Lady: Oh stewardess! I speak jive!

Stewardess: Oh, good.

Old Lady: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him.

Stewardess: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine?

Old Lady: Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.

Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap!

Old Lady: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!

First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up!

Old Lady: Jive ass dude don't got no brains anyhow! Hmmph!

 

 

"My squadron ships out tomorrow, we're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri, at 1800 hours. We're comin in from the north, below their radar"

"When will you be back?"

"I can't tell you that, it's classified"

LOL all time favorite film - that quote used to be my Forum sig.

Blazing Saddles: "Mongo just pawn in game of life" came a close second.

[ARM505]

I'm just curious what parts you feel are THAT far fetched in Top Gun.

 

(Snip)

 

There are a lot of things that are pretty realistic, like "hitting the brakes and letting him fly right by."

 

(Snip)

 

Noooooooooooo! Please don't start that one again!

[ARM505]

It's not a very thick book, but here's the cover: