[REPORTED] Fw 190 Cockpit Bar! (answer Post #173)

[Aginor]

I wonder if this thread will ever stop... :D

 

Well, whatever, on topic:

I think it would be awesome if the engine would take glass thickness and refractions and stuff into account, but seriously.... is this really more important than other changes? There are so many things in the sim to complain about, I don't mind if the view out of some cockpits is a few percent smaller than it would be in reality. Regardless of the existence or non-existence of a bar the FW-190 will likely rock the house.

[gavagai]

If we have no refraction effect in the 3D engine (I do not know exactly) the right way to make a good solution is to shift the camera position together with the gunsight.

 

Yo-Yo,

 

Is it right to assume that there is only one good solution? Some Il-2 1946 mods decreased the thickness of the bar in the 3d cockpit model. That might annoy a 3d artist, but I know from science that sometimes a falsification matches reality better than the absolute truth.

:thumbup:

[NineLine]

I looked at it quite a bit last night, I even compared it with a game whose name shall not be mentioned and I find the visibility and bar width to be much better in the DCS Version.

 

Also talked to Luckybob about refraction in 3D Studio... the issue with this is that the effect would need to be real time... so you have a real time magnifying glass in front of you... I am not sure our FPS could handle it :) But still investigating...

 

For a work around I suggest adding a set of these fine glasses to your headset:

 

 

 

Oh, don't ask why

Oh, don't ask why

 

:D

 

Ah, good to see the traditional FW190 cockpit bar discussion progressing here too (was just at the IL2:BOS forums :) )

 

It's not just the bar, it's the perceived depth of the side bars surrounding the thick front windscreen. Just so we're all clear on what's been happening there. The first thing I saw when I stepped into the BOS 190 was 'Gosh, look at those massive bars obscuring my view to the sides of the windscreen!' Thick glass makes those (as well as the lower bar) look thinner when looking through the windscreen, so it doesn't seem like you're staring out through a metal valley :D :D

[ARM505]

For a work around I suggest adding a set of these fine glasses to your headset:

 

 

Hey, that's my brother - he's got the good eyes in the family! :D

[MA_Goblin]

:megalol::thumbup:

[Yo-Yo]

Yo-Yo,

 

Is it right to assume that there is only one good solution? Some Il-2 1946 mods decreased the thickness of the bar in the 3d cockpit model. That might annoy a 3d artist, but I know from science that sometimes a falsification matches reality better than the absolute truth.

:thumbup:

 

As you understand, we will get a rain shower of purists complaining about "poor and inaccurate 3D model". :D

Edited July 30, 2014 by Yo-Yo

[Narushima]

Are DCS cockpit models moddable? If they are, then this won't be that big of a deal.

[NineLine]

Are DCS cockpit models moddable? If they are, then this won't be that big of a deal.

 

You can texture them... that is about it... anyways, I dont think its gonna be a huge deal with ED's Dora.... but nothing surprises me with you guys anymore :P

[Krupi]

Looking at the latest cockpit shots both internal and external models have clearly had a lot of rework so next Tuesday can't come sooner XD

[USARStarkey]

Personally I dont see anything wrong with the way it is now.

[NineLine]

Lets do this... if you guys think it really bad when its released... I will go to ED and see what we can do. But I dont think it will be too bad... I wish I could share my comparison images with you... but soon enough you will be able to make your own :)

[GorT]

^^"Young fools, only at the end will you understand!" :lol:

[IvanK]

Since the other tread was closed just putting this up here to keep it in one place.

 

[NineLine]

Since the other tread was closed just putting this up here to keep it in one place.

 

bar

 

As I said in the other one, it looks as if that bar wasnt there the fuselage would be blocking the reticle.

[Narushima]

Actually, it wouldn't, due to refraction. The image in front of the glass would bend a bit, meaning you'd have a clear line of sight.

 

Does someone have access to a FW 190 cockpit with a working revi? :D

[NineLine]

Actually, it wouldn't, due to refraction. The image in front of the glass would bend a bit, meaning you'd have a clear line of sight.

 

Does someone have access to a FW 190 cockpit with a working revi? :D

 

You think... have you ever been in the cockpit of a real Fw 190D-9 at 3 G trying to aim the EZ 42 and know for a fact the fuselage wouldnt be in the way still even if the bar wasnt? Its possible you would see part of the nose still, farther up the plane, but still part of the nose...

[gavagai]

Actually, it wouldn't, due to refraction. The image in front of the glass would bend a bit, meaning you'd have a clear line of sight.

 

There is truth in this commentary. Gunnery in this plane is going to take more practice than normal because of the poor deflection shooting. I frequently found my reticle over the bar or cowling tonight.

[NineLine]

There is truth in this commentary. Gunnery in this plane is going to take more practice than normal because of the poor deflection shooting. I frequently found my reticle over the bar or cowling tonight.

 

SO there is never a time when you were in the P-51, and you lost the reticle because of your position and/or G's?

Edited August 7, 2014 by NineLine

[Leo Showers]

SO there is never a time when you were in the P-51, and you lost the reticle because of your position and/or G's?

 

Beside the hostile response, I don't think that it's even a factor in this discussion, as it's a different plane all together.

[NineLine]

Beside the hostile response, I don't think that it's even a factor in this discussion, as it's a different plane all together.

 

1, how is that hostile, 2, how is it not a factor....

 

These planes will have limitations in these sights, you will get to a point where the sight is blocked or not visible anymore... that goes for any airplane of that era does it not?

 

Dont get all defensive when I am trying to look at the issue from all angles... I wont report something with half the story... sorry if that seems hostile or negative to you.

[Leo Showers]

1, how is that hostile, 2, how is it not a factor....

 

These planes will have limitations in these sights, you will get to a point where the sight is blocked or not visible anymore... that goes for any airplane of that era does it not?

 

Dont get all defensive when I am trying to look at the issue from all angles... I wont report something with half the story... sorry if that seems hostile or negative to you.

 

I hope you aren't confusing me with anyone else, as I have just entered the discussion, so calling me out on supposed defensiveness is probably a bit of a reach.

 

Secondly, it is a forgone conclusion that the sight will get obscured under certain conditions, the argument (at least as I have read it) is that the forward bar is in the way of thr bottom of the sight, which may make it more difficult to achieve certain deflection shots.

 

I'm actually quite shocked at the level of hostility that had been showed to me while entering this discussion, perhaps it would be best if I don't engage in it until everyone had calmed down.

[NineLine]

I still dont know where you are getting all this supposed hostility from, hence my suggesting you are being defensive...

 

Regardless... the discussion is how much of the forward bar "vanishes" due to the thickness of the glass... I am trying to determine how much it would help the sight if at all, and trying to look at all factors... I have seen how others have done the 190 in the past and present, as well as some of the "fixes" offered... I havent been overly impressed by many...

[leafer]

I hope you aren't confusing me with anyone else, as I have just entered the discussion, so calling me out on supposed defensiveness is probably a bit of a reach.

 

Secondly, it is a forgone conclusion that the sight will get obscured under certain conditions, the argument (at least as I have read it) is that the forward bar is in the way of thr bottom of the sight, which may make it more difficult to achieve certain deflection shots.

 

I'm actually quite shocked at the level of hostility that had been showed to me while entering this discussion, perhaps it would be best if I don't engage in it until everyone had calmed down.

 

You entered this discussion and immediately accusing him of showing hostility in his response. He then asked how was his post hostile. Well, what did you expect? This is only one of tons of discussions he's been monitoring. The man simply is a man.

[ZaltysZ]

Regardless... the discussion is how much of the forward bar "vanishes" due to the thickness of the glass... I am trying to determine how much it would help the sight if at all, and trying to look at all factors...

 

There is an easy way. Most large 3D modeling/rendering software products have an ability to do raytracing rendering. Ask ED's 3D artist, who created Dora cockpit, to do few renders with correct geometry, but with windscreen having refraction index of 1 and refraction index of 1.5 (glass) or so. That should not take lots of his time. Then the effects of refraction can be easily observed.

[gavagai]

SO there is never a time when you were in the P-51, and you lost the reticle because of your position and/or G's?

 

These are debate tactics, sithspawn. Let's stick to the facts.:book: