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@Wags/DCS Dev Team, question RE netcode


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Are we going to see some updates for the networking code to get a larger number of players onto servers anytime soon? With RRG's WWII stuff funded, a massive update to network coding will really be needed to get a large number of players into servers.

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The IG hasn't got a lot to do with netcode. However, there was mention that a dedicated server would be worked on once EDGE is in place. There's a good chance that they'll work on the netcode some more as well.

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DCS WWII will be made using EDGE and I would suspect most future content will use EDGE too. Why waste time developing a dedi server for the old engine when it will soon be out of use? It has already been stated that EDGE will have a Dedicated server.


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Sorry but EDGE is a pipedream. How long have been waiting for it? How much longer till it gets here? Do we have to wait for the DCS:WWII to get edge? So many questions and very few answers, just look at that Nevada map wait. (Which is still ongoing)

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Yes, we really need a new net code or a very deep optimizations for making big campaigns with hundreds of peoples in one server, lots of AI units, moving ground, air and naval forces, without wrapping and crashes.

and backup to mission progress will be great too.

 

IMO that should be ED main goal now, more than new plane or something else.

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well wags stated that edge will be released before the end of the year with nevada as the first map...

 

He said some months ago the target was the end of year unless he has said something recently I had not seen?

 

The problem with the current is that it relies on the graphics engine for alot of the sim work. So you need to run that graphics engine for the sim to function, Which you obviously cant do from a command line.

 

As for linux forget it haha!

 

So until next year I think we are stuck with no dedi software

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IMHO one of the first things that need to be done for this to happen is for the graphics engine to be disconnected from everything else, and I believe this will come with EDGE.

 

It's not necessarily 'netcode', the netcode might be just fine but other things may be infringing on its action.

 

Are we going to see some updates for the networking code to get a larger number of players onto servers anytime soon? With RRG's WWII stuff funded, a massive update to network coding will really be needed to get a large number of players into servers.

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Sorry but EDGE is a pipedream. How long have been waiting for it? How much longer till it gets here? Do we have to wait for the DCS:WWII to get edge? So many questions and very few answers, just look at that Nevada map wait. (Which is still ongoing)

 

Careful....

 

it was stated that EDGE should be released this year.,

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IMHO one of the first things that need to be done for this to happen is for the graphics engine to be disconnected from everything else, and I believe this will come with EDGE.

 

It's not necessarily 'netcode', the netcode might be just fine but other things may be infringing on its action.

 

 

Yup, this is important to remember, everything is tied together, if one piece is out of place it could effect a number of things. It's not always easy to find that piece that is out of place... DCS is evolving... growing pains... they are going to happen, but never think that ED doesnt know how important these issues are, if they could have released a patch already they would have... but rushing one out that breaks something else just as bad wont do any good.

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How long have been waiting for it?

 

A couple years.

 

Know how long it usually takes to develop something like that?

 

A couple years. ;)

 

That's the reason so many shooter devs license someone else's engine; they don't want (nor can afford, usually) to spend 2 to 7 years building a competitive engine before they can properly start on their actual game. The days when competitive game engine took a couple months to a year to make are long gone.

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It's not necessarily 'netcode', the netcode might be just fine but other things may be infringing on its action.

 

Well there is one thing that c0ff already mentioned, namely that he needs to implement an aliasing filter which has a cutoff frequency that is tied to the sample rate.

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So its coming by the end of this year? Could you please post a link to this quote, Ive been trying the search function with no success.

 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1817197&postcount=102

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A couple years.

 

Know how long it usually takes to develop something like that?

 

A couple years. ;)

 

That's the reason so many shooter devs license someone else's engine; they don't want (nor can afford, usually) to spend 2 to 7 years building a competitive engine before they can properly start on their actual game. The days when competitive game engine took a couple months to a year to make are long gone.

 

Sorry but EDGE is a pipedream. How long have been waiting for it? How much longer till it gets here? Do we have to wait for the DCS:WWII to get edge? So many questions and very few answers, just look at that Nevada map wait. (Which is still ongoing)

 

 

Most of the Top Tier Shooters use the same 3 Engines. Mainly the Unreal and Frostbite Engines.

 

Frostbite isnt Developed by the BF Team, nor the MoH Team, Frostbite is Developed by a Completely Separate Team of Developers, and the Frostbite team is prolly greatly larger.

 

Frostbite 3.0 is a update to Frostbite 2.0 and is a Upgrade from Frostbite.

 

the Original Frostbite Engine Took upwards of 5 years to Code before it was used to make BF:BC then 1943.

 

They License the Engine out to Offset the Cost of developing it.


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Most of the Top Tier Shooters use the same 3 Engines. Mainly the Unreal and Frostbite Engines.

 

Frostbite isnt Developed by the BF Team, nor the MoH Team, Frostbite is Developed by a Completely Separate Team of Developers, and the Frostbite team is prolly greatly larger.

 

 

And for example, how long has Frostbite been in development? These things take time, even for companies with a lot more resources...

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The Netcode still interacts with the Rendering Engine. Therefore; the Dedicated Server Program does too.

 

So Why Code up a Dedicated Server App, then have to re-code everything a few months later.

 

That's also Assuming the Netcode wont go through serious changes/updates/adjustments/cleaning after EDGE is integrated.

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Frostbite engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)

Frostbite 1: (Battlefield: Bad Company) 2008

Frostbite 1.5: (Battlefield 1943) 2009

Frostbite 2: (Battlefield 2) 2011

Frostbite 3: (Battlefield 3) 2013

 

Unreal Engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_engine

Unreal Engine 1: (Unreal) 1998

Unreal Engine 2: (American Army): 2002

Unreal Engine 3: (Gears of Wars): 2006

Unreal Engine 4: (Daylight) 2014

 

Add 2-5 years to develop early version. 2-4 years to next version.

 

EDGE come to ¿v4? that year.

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Frostbite Development started before 2005, Possibly Late 2004,

because there was issues with the Base coding of the Refractor 2 Engine that were discovered during BF2 Development.

So they Ended Support for it and Started the Frostbite Engine.

 

just sayin'

 

So 2005 2006 2007 for the base engine Frostbite,

then 2008 2009 2010 for Frostbite 2.0,

then 2011 2012 for Frostbite 3.0

 

And that was using a pretty large team in EA Illusion Studios. (i think when they ended Refractor 2 Support and moved to working on Frostbite 1 the team was over 150 members, Frostbite 2 was around 110, Frostbite 3 is about 65 Members (48 Credited, and a bunch of interns/outsourced members)

 

Frostbite however was designed and coded from the ground up to be more modular, so they can remove, replace, or add multiple layers for certain functions. They can remove DX9 Rendering Engine and Drop in DX10 or 11, or keep all 3. Parts of the Engine are easily replaced and upgraded after the Base Engine Code was done (1.0). Frostbite 1.0-> 1.5 had issues that prevented 3rd Party Mod Tools.

 

Frostbite 2 Dropped the Compilers and Distribution System and replaced them completely, 3rd party Tools were now "Possible", But were disabled.

They Also Integrated 64-Bit and DX11 Support.

 

Frostbite 3 adds Support for DX11.1 and AMD Mantle, amongst other things.

 

 

Real Virtuality 4 (Bohemia Interactive / ArmA III's Engine took 5+ Years to Code), Assuming that it's a Complete rebuild and not an extension/upgrade from Real Virtuality 3 (ArmA II)

 

 

 

In regards to EDGE / Nevada Development Time:

People either forgot, overlooked or never really knew, that the team wasn't working on Nevada Map for a Period of time (Months).


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Wags posted some screens this month about how the Nevada map is coming along. The real issue of concern is that ED is working on WWII projects. This is getting attention which I personally won't use if its a separate installer using the Edge engine. If they are going to integrate the WWII project into DCS world then they can kill two birds with one stone. Everyone would be happy this way. DCS in my opinion really needs to add a new engine and add few more areas to fly in.

 

 

Personally I am very interested in a new engine for DCS World and I really hope the special attention is not going towards DCS WWII but rather DCS/ED is developing that project and as a side effect DCS World and WWII will be one and the same. This will affect my beloved A-10C and other future modern military aircraft. Just my opinion the WWII has been over done for years and years. AFM will be fun, cool, realistic, ETC but special attention going to a WWII sim is a mistake in my opinion. Unless it's one DCS world installer.

 

 

Remember that DCS/ED creating modern AFM full fidelity aircraft is setting a bar for simulations. What they do will affect their profits and they already have a monopoly if they make good business decisions. This to me is not a game it's a sim. In real life what would you like to fly out of your local airport a F-15E, A-10C or a P-51D? Just some food for thought. Either way I am very impressed with DCS: World it's a success that's well deserved. And like I said before I would beat the DCS team!!........ to the door so I can open it for them.... And if I had a Vag I would let them gang bang...


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I would love to believe that EDGE is going to help on the network issues but somehow I'm not convinced.

 

It's as simple as this though ED.

 

if you do not fix your netcode so allow a meagre 10 players stable then DCS World will never become what it has potential to, and I will feel sorry for the IL2 guys wanting to make a new IL2-46 on DCS engine cos that will never work if the game can't even support 10 players stable online.

 

Haven't played any online missions with my friends lately because of the broken state it's in. It's simple unfeasible to do any sort of larger scaled missions. :(

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