Best way to deal with tanks?

[SniperRu]

I'm having a bit of trouble taking out tanks. Both the RBK bombs and unguided rockets seem to miss the target most of the time... any tips on this?

 

and just to make sure, which RBK/rockets should I be using for armored targets?

[CypherGrunyev]

57mm rockets to the top armorial should do it...

[IonicRipper]

I found the easiest way to dispatch tanks was a single FAB-500 if your aim is good.

[CypherGrunyev]

I found the easiest way to dispatch tanks was a single FAB-500 if your aim is good.

 

 

At the cost of 3-4 runs, that IS the best method, if not for weight/ordinance limits...

[TurboHog]

I absolutely don't recommend 57mm rockets. Here are three options I would consider:

 

- S-8 and S-13 rockets can do the job. S-13 requires a single hit and S-8 requires several direct hits. Splash damage from either of the two does not deal any damage.

 

- Bombs (preferably CCIP, although CCRP can be used in neutral conditions). Fab-250 or 500 or RBK-500 with 10kg bomblets

 

- Guided missiles. any of the guided missiles fired from close range (about rocket range) should be effective.

[MTFDarkEagle]

My prefered options:

 

1) Guided missiles (may require running in distance to keep in mind)

2) Bombs

3) Cannon

4) Unguided rockets

[Mechanist]

Taking out tanks in Su-25A allways depends on the situation. There are many great ways to destroy them, almost all weapos (except SPPU-22; SAB-100; R-60M, etc...) that the Su-25 can carry, can destroy even Abramses and Chalengers.

 

The big question is how many time do you have?

 

In my squad we had internal "chalanges" when 4 players had 40 M1A1-s to destroy with their prefered loadout. We've attacked in pairs, my best performance was 17 destroyed Abramses with one loadout. The loadout of course was 8*20 B-8KOM. With this loadout, precise aiming (high angle) and a with luck you can get 12-16 tanks destroyed with one loadout. Only problem is it takes arround 20 minutes which is awfully high.

 

Also if you have time and you rely more on advanced weapon systems you should go with 8*S-25L. Only problem is that your maneuverability will be greatly reduced, and it requires 8 passes to achive 8 direct hits, unless the tanks aren't moving, in which case if they are close togethert an you can aim quick you can destroy two in one pass. 8 passes with this heavy loadout takes arround 10-12 minutes.

 

The above mentioned techniques are only good when you have full air supperiority and garanteed SEAD cover.

 

Otherwise the following tactics can be good:

 

- Convoys: 8*RBK-500U with 2 Su-25A in pair attack. This is the best you can have when you only have a small window to act, and you are up against a lined up convoly.

However in curent state of cluster animation it will most likely cause screen freezing and lag which is not good at all. Hope it get fixed soon.

 

- Small amount of tanks scattered in moving battlefield: Best choice is 4 S-25L, 2 wing tanks. 2 Su-25As. Alltogether with the wing tanks you will have enough fuel to probe the enemy air defences and fighters and stike in the gaps of their defence. 4 S-25L-s is relatively light so you can maneuver better. 2 skilled Su-25A pilots can take out 8 tanks in about 4 minutes which is not bad and leave the area intact.

 

- When time is the essence due to enemy advancing to vunerable friendly position: 4 S-13OF, 2 S-25L or Kh-25ML, 2 Su-25A equiped with this loadout can be devastating in mater of minutes. Here is the tactic:

Spot the target and engage it as far as possible with one laser guided missile. When it destroyed the target you still have about 2-3 kms to swith targets. Use one whole pair of S-13 block to destroy your second target, don't hesitate to use the whole block because it is almost a garanteed kill and you don't have time to be pretty precise. Turn arround and do this one more time. With this loadout it takes 1,5 - 2 minutes for 2 Su-25As to destory 8 tanks (4 each). This is requires experienced Su-25 pilots work as a team, hard to achive but pretty rewarding.

 

- Also if you have have highly skilled pliots with good eyes or human JTAC you can use the above mentioned technique with 4 Kh-25ML or 2 Kh-25ML and 2 S-25L missiles. Same as above strike two tanks in one pass, keep in mind that S-25L have poor maneuverability, slow speed, but greater damage (you can miss an Abrmas about 2-3 m-s and still get a kill) while Kh-25ML travels and maneuvers faster but have less damage, requires a direct hit.

 

- If you have weapon restrictions but not enough time to fiddle with S-8KOM-s or S-13s, your best choice will be 4*S-25OF, with 2 Su-25A-s. Precise rocket with great damage potential, you can strike two tanks in one pass if you are skilled enough with arround 75% kill rate. And one more thing, forget the S-24B, that is only good to hit a village, very poor accuracy...

[seikdel]

I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that, if you're facing a column of tanks, re-enacting Arc Light with 32 FAB-100 bombs on MERs is a) incredibly effective and b) perhaps the most gratifying thing that you can ever do on a computer.

[splash]

Taking out tanks in Su-25A allways depends on the situation. There are many great ways to destroy them, almost all weapos (except SPPU-22; SAB-100; R-60M, etc...) that the Su-25 can carry, can destroy even Abramses and Chalengers.

 

The big question is how many time do you have?

 

In my squad we had internal "chalanges" when 4 players had 40 M1A1-s to destroy with their prefered loadout. We've attacked in pairs, my best performance was 17 destroyed Abramses with one loadout. The loadout of course was 8*20 B-8KOM. With this loadout, precise aiming (high angle) and a with luck you can get 12-16 tanks destroyed with one loadout. Only problem is it takes arround 20 minutes which is awfully high.

 

Also if you have time and you rely more on advanced weapon systems you should go with 8*S-25L. Only problem is that your maneuverability will be greatly reduced, and it requires 8 passes to achive 8 direct hits, unless the tanks aren't moving, in which case if they are close togethert an you can aim quick you can destroy two in one pass. 8 passes with this heavy loadout takes arround 10-12 minutes.

 

The above mentioned techniques are only good when you have full air supperiority and garanteed SEAD cover.

 

Otherwise the following tactics can be good:

 

- Convoys: 8*RBK-500U with 2 Su-25A in pair attack. This is the best you can have when you only have a small window to act, and you are up against a lined up convoly.

However in curent state of cluster animation it will most likely cause screen freezing and lag which is not good at all. Hope it get fixed soon.

 

- Small amount of tanks scattered in moving battlefield: Best choice is 4 S-25L, 2 wing tanks. 2 Su-25As. Alltogether with the wing tanks you will have enough fuel to probe the enemy air defences and fighters and stike in the gaps of their defence. 4 S-25L-s is relatively light so you can maneuver better. 2 skilled Su-25A pilots can take out 8 tanks in about 4 minutes which is not bad and leave the area intact.

 

- When time is the essence due to enemy advancing to vunerable friendly position: 4 S-13OF, 2 S-25L or Kh-25ML, 2 Su-25A equiped with this loadout can be devastating in mater of minutes. Here is the tactic:

Spot the target and engage it as far as possible with one laser guided missile. When it destroyed the target you still have about 2-3 kms to swith targets. Use one whole pair of S-13 block to destroy your second target, don't hesitate to use the whole block because it is almost a garanteed kill and you don't have time to be pretty precise. Turn arround and do this one more time. With this loadout it takes 1,5 - 2 minutes for 2 Su-25As to destory 8 tanks (4 each). This is requires experienced Su-25 pilots work as a team, hard to achive but pretty rewarding.

 

- Also if you have have highly skilled pliots with good eyes or human JTAC you can use the above mentioned technique with 4 Kh-25ML or 2 Kh-25ML and 2 S-25L missiles. Same as above strike two tanks in one pass, keep in mind that S-25L have poor maneuverability, slow speed, but greater damage (you can miss an Abrmas about 2-3 m-s and still get a kill) while Kh-25ML travels and maneuvers faster but have less damage, requires a direct hit.

 

- If you have weapon restrictions but not enough time to fiddle with S-8KOM-s or S-13s, your best choice will be 4*S-25OF, with 2 Su-25A-s. Precise rocket with great damage potential, you can strike two tanks in one pass if you are skilled enough with arround 75% kill rate. And one more thing, forget the S-24B, that is only good to hit a village, very poor accuracy...

 

Excellent explanation! I'll save it for study.

 

Could you please tell me what tactics do you use to deal with IR SAMs and manpads? I'm almost ever downed when I use some weapons like rockets.

 

Thanks.

[159th_Falcon]

Manpads? If you know there rough location an nice volley of S8KOM from 5km range should do.

Not very precise, but no need to when dealing whit manpads.

 

If your dealing whit something like a Strela or Avenger, attack from high altitude.

Coming out of the sun if possible, and dropping flares on run in and double the amount on extending in case you missed or didn't see an other threat.

[TurboHog]

I would suggest S13 from 5km. They destroy everything. I once got 39 kills with 6 pods by firing at a FARP with a lot of units stacked up. Including Sa-15 and Sa-13. I very much doubt if this effectiveness is realistic. The splash damage takes down everything except heavy armour.

[159th_Falcon]

Also possible yes, its a trade off between quantity and thus area covered.

 

And what you happen to have whit you ofcourse.

[Mechanist]

Excellent explanation! I'll save it for study.

 

Could you please tell me what tactics do you use to deal with IR SAMs and manpads? I'm almost ever downed when I use some weapons like rockets.

 

Thanks.

 

Well the answer to that question is searched among Su-25A pilot like the Holly Grail.

 

The good news is that there are many good ways to hunt IR Sams down, the bad news is that you have to know what are you facing.

In order to kill them with as ease as possible you have to master the knowledge about them and keep your knowledge updated. Some tricks might not work after patches... but there is some similarities that might help, which aplies for all of them. If you can exploit these "weaknesses" you can easily get into kill range with any of them relatively fast.

Good to know facts:

- IR missiles always follows you never got a lead for their target (or atlease the lead is very limited, due to they don't receive data from external sources). Way to exploit: high traverse speed. Also the fact that they have to increase their traverse speed when they close up on you gives you a higher chance to overshoot.

- IR missiles have a short accelerating time and large smoke trail. Way to exploit: Make them do as much climing as possible when they run out of juice, never pull down your plane against an IR missile, to evade. You can get speed from diving but regain your climbing tendency as soon as possible. Make them perform high G turns in order to loose their momentum as soon as possible. Easiest way to do this is to dive towards them and when they run out of juice or get close (less then a km) climb and brake left or right violently. In this case you will evade the first missile 95%. After this you have to level your plane or dive to gain speed to evade the second missile they have for you :) But their launching distance will be shortend due to you are not closing any more.

- Deploy flares and "fly throught them" from the missiles point of view. It is hard to explain what I mean by that but I give it a try. Missile system present in DCS have not IR image creation mechanism, to put it a simple way they follow the heat blur arround you. when you deploy flares you brake this heat blur because in the Su-25A it is launched upwards and it stick out for your original blur, howver when you dive towards the missile the previously launched flares falls behind you and apears in the bottom section of your original blurr. So best way to deploy flare agains them is to replace your blur with the flares blur. To do that dive towards the launched missiles, than grab your stick and pull up, in that moment release flares rapidly (8-16) and lower your engine throtle to lower your heat signiture, turn left or right and add power. In this case the missile will see flares heading towards it and you will be a smaller signiture in their upper left or right corner. I don't really know that this is coded in DCS or not but seems to work very well.

- All weapon systems in DCS have a reaction time. Way to exploit, Stay hidden as far as possible, (ground cover, high dive). You might get a chance to release your payload befor they even spot you, especially works well in mountain region.

 

Theres is only one way to kill SAMs in the first pass using Su-25A:

- You have to know the EXACT location of your enemy. Kh-25ML will be your best choice, because it have stand of range to any IR SAMS. Fast accurate and you can launch it from great distance. Keep in mind once you've launched the misslie you don't have to dive towards your enemy straith up. The Klen-PS laser traget designator / rangefinder have about 30° lower hemisphere coverage. To exploit this: aim, launch your missile and pull up a the plane the way you loose your chrosshair on the bottom of the ASP-17. Don't level your plane because it is to much, just place it to the bottom when you just barely can't see it any more (or just a little form the top section fo the chrosshair). Turning left or right is not realy recommended. With this you've decreased your enemy's launching distance. Obviously do not use this technique against moving targets. Beside the best choice, you can allways use other weapons like S-25OF, S-13OF, or S-8OFP2. Go for HE-Frag rockets because IR SAM ar poorly armored. Good for mooving and still targests as well. Using bombs have limited succes rate in this business. Use atleast 2 FAB-500 with CCRP to get the best result as possible, but it is not recomended, because unguided rockets are much more flexible in most combat load / situation for Su-25A.

 

If you suspect there is SAMs in the area:

- Probe the defence with fast dives. Decision where to pull up is up to you, keep in ming that this technique is most efective when you are starting from 4000-4500 m and don't go bellow 2000m. When probing AAA dive to ground level. It is best to not do this maneuver alone because you can get a missile up on your six when you've turned back from the observed area without a notice. If you do this in pairs do in with 180° overlap. If a missile is launched uppon you when you perform the diving, remember the above mentioned weaknesses of closing missiles. Also try to remember the place you've shot uppon. Best to use landmarks, or pop som orange S-8TsM marker rockets to define a stable point. Always do the probing from the same headding when you use smoke to define a fix point. Also a human JTAC is the best choice to mark you target.

- Probe the defence with fast ground following flight. This technique have to be performed in pair. There is no way you will spot or memorise a location that you've shot uppon. Get yourself as low as possible, IR-SAMs will launch uppon you because they have no lower limit of launch. By fling fast and low you will have great ammount of traverse speed and chanche for ground cover. The harder task will be for your wingmen to spot the targets and destroy them is if possible. Easy and fun to do :)

- If you up against few number of SAMs which have 4 or less missiles you can "shoot out" them. Provocate a launch and get a plan to avoid the missiles. They usually fire two at you. After they depleeted their missiles they are just sitting duck. This tactic good about 3 or less SAMS in one place, Avangers are basically off limit or must be only one to get this done in reasonable time.

 

If you have no idea that an IR SAM is in the area: You're up to Lady Luck.

 

One more thing to add: You don't have to destroy IR SAMs at all to comple a mission succesfully. You either can fly low and fast and hit your targer form surprise or, stike high to avoid them to shoot at you. I prefer the second one because hiting a target form low angle and have barely no time to aim is very dificult and depends much on luck. Requires exact knowledge about your tartget. Good against stationary targets but useless in unknow environment. From striking high you can achive great succes agains most of the targets, get into CCRP bombing, or 3+km rocket runs. Don't spare your ammunition because you might not survive enuogh time to depoly them. Killing 6-7 vehicles with 40*S-13 launched at the same time is better then kill 2 with precise shots and get shot down in low altitude. Remember that the plane is designed basically to be az aerial artillery: Strike fast, large area, and with awesome firepower. Then relocate as fast as possible. It is might be not as rewarding as crusing for 1+ hour in an A-10 over the target area for some... but I enjoy it very much.

[Ripcord]

How to deal with tanks? lease them until the warranty period expires, then return them and get newer model units.

[splash]

Well the answer to that question is searched among Su-25A pilot like the Holly Grail.

 

The good news is that there are many good ways to hunt IR Sams down, the bad news is that you have to know what are you facing.

In order to kill them with as ease as possible you have to master the knowledge about them and keep your knowledge updated. Some tricks might not work after patches... but there is some similarities that might help, which aplies for all of them. If you can exploit these "weaknesses" you can easily get into kill range with any of them relatively fast.

Good to know facts:

- IR missiles always follows you never got a lead for their target (or atlease the lead is very limited, due to they don't receive data from external sources). Way to exploit: high traverse speed. Also the fact that they have to increase their traverse speed when they close up on you gives you a higher chance to overshoot.

- IR missiles have a short accelerating time and large smoke trail. Way to exploit: Make them do as much climing as possible when they run out of juice, never pull down your plane against an IR missile, to evade. You can get speed from diving but regain your climbing tendency as soon as possible. Make them perform high G turns in order to loose their momentum as soon as possible. Easiest way to do this is to dive towards them and when they run out of juice or get close (less then a km) climb and brake left or right violently. In this case you will evade the first missile 95%. After this you have to level your plane or dive to gain speed to evade the second missile they have for you :) But their launching distance will be shortend due to you are not closing any more.

- Deploy flares and "fly throught them" from the missiles point of view. It is hard to explain what I mean by that but I give it a try. Missile system present in DCS have not IR image creation mechanism, to put it a simple way they follow the heat blur arround you. when you deploy flares you brake this heat blur because in the Su-25A it is launched upwards and it stick out for your original blur, howver when you dive towards the missile the previously launched flares falls behind you and apears in the bottom section of your original blurr. So best way to deploy flare agains them is to replace your blur with the flares blur. To do that dive towards the launched missiles, than grab your stick and pull up, in that moment release flares rapidly (8-16) and lower your engine throtle to lower your heat signiture, turn left or right and add power. In this case the missile will see flares heading towards it and you will be a smaller signiture in their upper left or right corner. I don't really know that this is coded in DCS or not but seems to work very well.

- All weapon systems in DCS have a reaction time. Way to exploit, Stay hidden as far as possible, (ground cover, high dive). You might get a chance to release your payload befor they even spot you, especially works well in mountain region.

 

Theres is only one way to kill SAMs in the first pass using Su-25A:

- You have to know the EXACT location of your enemy. Kh-25ML will be your best choice, because it have stand of range to any IR SAMS. Fast accurate and you can launch it from great distance. Keep in mind once you've launched the misslie you don't have to dive towards your enemy straith up. The Klen-PS laser traget designator / rangefinder have about 30° lower hemisphere coverage. To exploit this: aim, launch your missile and pull up a the plane the way you loose your chrosshair on the bottom of the ASP-17. Don't level your plane because it is to much, just place it to the bottom when you just barely can't see it any more (or just a little form the top section fo the chrosshair). Turning left or right is not realy recommended. With this you've decreased your enemy's launching distance. Obviously do not use this technique against moving targets. Beside the best choice, you can allways use other weapons like S-25OF, S-13OF, or S-8OFP2. Go for HE-Frag rockets because IR SAM ar poorly armored. Good for mooving and still targests as well. Using bombs have limited succes rate in this business. Use atleast 2 FAB-500 with CCRP to get the best result as possible, but it is not recomended, because unguided rockets are much more flexible in most combat load / situation for Su-25A.

 

If you suspect there is SAMs in the area:

- Probe the defence with fast dives. Decision where to pull up is up to you, keep in ming that this technique is most efective when you are starting from 4000-4500 m and don't go bellow 2000m. When probing AAA dive to ground level. It is best to not do this maneuver alone because you can get a missile up on your six when you've turned back from the observed area without a notice. If you do this in pairs do in with 180° overlap. If a missile is launched uppon you when you perform the diving, remember the above mentioned weaknesses of closing missiles. Also try to remember the place you've shot uppon. Best to use landmarks, or pop som orange S-8TsM marker rockets to define a stable point. Always do the probing from the same headding when you use smoke to define a fix point. Also a human JTAC is the best choice to mark you target.

- Probe the defence with fast ground following flight. This technique have to be performed in pair. There is no way you will spot or memorise a location that you've shot uppon. Get yourself as low as possible, IR-SAMs will launch uppon you because they have no lower limit of launch. By fling fast and low you will have great ammount of traverse speed and chanche for ground cover. The harder task will be for your wingmen to spot the targets and destroy them is if possible. Easy and fun to do :)

- If you up against few number of SAMs which have 4 or less missiles you can "shoot out" them. Provocate a launch and get a plan to avoid the missiles. They usually fire two at you. After they depleeted their missiles they are just sitting duck. This tactic good about 3 or less SAMS in one place, Avangers are basically off limit or must be only one to get this done in reasonable time.

 

If you have no idea that an IR SAM is in the area: You're up to Lady Luck.

 

One more thing to add: You don't have to destroy IR SAMs at all to comple a mission succesfully. You either can fly low and fast and hit your targer form surprise or, stike high to avoid them to shoot at you. I prefer the second one because hiting a target form low angle and have barely no time to aim is very dificult and depends much on luck. Requires exact knowledge about your tartget. Good against stationary targets but useless in unknow environment. From striking high you can achive great succes agains most of the targets, get into CCRP bombing, or 3+km rocket runs. Don't spare your ammunition because you might not survive enuogh time to depoly them. Killing 6-7 vehicles with 40*S-13 launched at the same time is better then kill 2 with precise shots and get shot down in low altitude. Remember that the plane is designed basically to be az aerial artillery: Strike fast, large area, and with awesome firepower. Then relocate as fast as possible. It is might be not as rewarding as crusing for 1+ hour in an A-10 over the target area for some... but I enjoy it very much.

 

Many many thanks! This is the best post I've read.