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Impossible to kill the Dora


Nealius
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I just tried taking out the Dora in Instant Action, and it seems to be impossible. Getting on his tail without blacking out is a chore, and then once I do get on his tail he just flies loops which then forces me to stall out while he doesn't seem to have a problem going pure vertical. Other times I get stuck in lag and when I try to rate my nose on him to line my sights up the plane just stalls out. One time my engine just completely shut off mid flight!

 

How do you do it?

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I have only tried 1V1 with the Dora a few times but I have had the opposite experience, I had troubles with the mustang at first but eventually was able to at least gain a advantage in most engagements. I wanted to test the Dora so I loaded it up and managed to shoot it down twice. My arial gunnery is suspect at best but had no problem closing in pure pursuit by managing the RPMs and little changes in MP. Also sounds like you are having some engine management issues.

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What do you typically do with the engines? I just maxed out the RPM and set MP just short of the red line.

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Let me say I'm no dogfighting guru. Especially with the Merlin. I tend to set MP at climb power 46" or so. As my airspeed slows, say climbing in the vertical I will add in more rpm. I.e. downshifting a car when climbing a steep hill. No more then 29. On the downhill I will take out some angle to reduce drag and pick up speed. The AI likes to fight in the vertical make sure you have the air speed before You fallow him up or turn into his circle. I use 250 as a quick ref.

 

Oh and a tough habit for me coming from falcon4 (a fighter with an awesome sustained turn rate) is to be easy with G. Always on the edge of blacking out or a snap roll of death


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Yeah, I'm used to hard pulls from BMS. I've found that when I am patient (and he doesn't go vertical) I can get on him, but I don't have any available G to get my sights on target. When I pull to make a shot I hit that "snap roll of death" you were talking about.

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I just tried the Instant Action for the first time with the 190. I think it has the same flaw as the P-51 Instant action did, but it is not that bad. I don't like that you have to set up your gunsight, radiator and trim the aircraft the second you merge with the enemy... but you can make it work. If you aren't used to flying with full wing tanks it might be a little painful at first. Easy on the controls. Use some flaps if you want some help out-turning him and make sure to keep your energy up. Like was said above, I also try to be at at least 250 mph before I even try to go vertical with the AI. You can go Full Power 61"/3000 with no issues just make sure you don't spend much time below 150mph and keep your coolant radiator full open. Good Luck.

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I just tried the Instant Action for the first time with the 190. I think it has the same flaw as the P-51 Instant action did, but it is not that bad. I don't like that you have to set up your gunsight, radiator and trim the aircraft the second you merge with the enemy... but you can make it work. If you aren't used to flying with full wing tanks it might be a little painful at first. Easy on the controls. Use some flaps if you want some help out-turning him and make sure to keep your energy up. Like was said above, I also try to be at at least 250 mph before I even try to go vertical with the AI. You can go Full Power 61"/3000 with no issues just make sure you don't spend much time below 150mph and keep your coolant radiator full open. Good Luck.

 

About speed's i have 200 as a quick ref but since i have been flying for a while i can make loops work very well at low speed. Don't attempt a vertical fight if,

 

Having Problems with controls

Low Speed any thing below 175 (ie i can loop at 175 but i am shuddering the whole fight.

Flaps can help and hinder in vertical fights (use your own experience and fighting style to work that out.)

Damaged Engine

Damaged Cooling (when your coolant system has been shot up, just get some energy and runaway.

 

Have fun Shooting bandits down. :joystick:

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Does the P-51D module start you off with external tanks? I can't recall noticing them. Also the coolant radiator, does that need to be manually set or put on "auto"?

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Does the P-51D module start you off with external tanks? I can't recall noticing them. Also the coolant radiator, does that need to be manually set or put on "auto"?

 

It does not automatically give external tanks, it is however on coolant door automatic mode. So u can set it to full open in Manuel mode, i have about 3 seconds of full open set.

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Does the P-51D module start you off with external tanks? I can't recall noticing them. Also the coolant radiator, does that need to be manually set or put on "auto"?

 

The only way I know to get full open is to map a switch and leave it on open. If you go back to Auto it may close up on you and it is slow to react to temp changes.

 

When he said "wing tanks," he meant the on-board tanks inside of the wings, not external drop tanks slung underneath.

 

Yes, thanks for clarifying.

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Does getting hits on the enemy's wing do anything to slow him down? I haven't noticed that it does, he still flies circles around me with a wing full of holes.

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Does getting hits on the enemy's wing do anything to slow him down? I haven't noticed that it does, he still flies circles around me with a wing full of holes.

 

Nothing slows him down I'm afraid. I perforated the living crap out of one of the wings and countless holes on the fuselage, yet, he just merrily go about taking off. Yeah...

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does the damage model affect flight in DCS?

Can controls be shot off, surfaces removed etc?

 

Maybe that's why Dora is so hard to defeat. You'll only get brief hits on him but those apparently don't have the effect of weakening the plane or the pilot.

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In other flight sims people complain that the AI is too easy to shoot down. Here people complain that it is too difficult!

 

I do you feel ya on the realism points. The damage should slow it down. But for my part I am just glad that the AI opponents are not paper tigers, otherwise I wouldn't find any point in fighting them.

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What convergence do you have your guns at? To the cockpit observer the bullets may look as if they are hitting the plane but they may be missing it entirely. Everything happens so fast up there. Also what is your vertical targeting? You have to keep those in mind as well. To kill a Dora you need to kill it's motor. It's liquid cooled and will overheat and die unlike a radial air-cooler motor. The Dora is alos a 'Boom-n-Zoom' plane. That is what he is doing to you. That is why it is hard to kill him. They retain energy like a pregnant woman retains water. They also have outstanding high-speed maneuverbility as well. It's no slouch you're fighting there. And if you get killed, remember he has 2X 20mm wing guns and 2x 13mm nose guns so his accuracy is higher than yours. The P-51D is no slouch either but it was designed to escort bombers. It's still one of my favorites and I can't wait to skin it and the Fw-190D-9.

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You cannot set your convergence in the DCS P-51.

 

Fwiw, the muzzle velocity from the M2 Browning machine guns is higher than either the MG 131 or MG 151/20. Convergence aside, it is easier to hit with a higher muzzle velocity weapon.

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Yeah, but the damage dealt by cal50 is pertty much smaller than by 15 or 20mm guns. So it equals and as most of us simpilotes only are fireing if they will hit the target, the better guns surpass those cal50 by far. It's not like in a real fight where everyone is nervous or is fighting the controls or weathercondition as well. Therefore i would trade the cal50 any time for a 20mm gun.

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It's a chore for sure, and it tends to still out perform an unhit/undamaged Pony which makes me suspect. I have a screen shot of the 190 badly hit, smoking from the manifolds and spewing fuel all while climbing away and leaving my undamaged Pony in the dust during an extended climb out. When the AI is beat down, it quits the fight. I get several of those... but it will out perform the Pony till you blow its wing off. VERY Frustrating.

 

With that said, engine management is huge, but the Pony's Merlin will not match the AI's pure flight characteristics in regards to the 190's energy tactics. You have to fool it a little by being unpredictable. It knows where you are, your exact airspeed, alpha, energy state, and where your pipper is pointing at all times. Show it a little something to draw it in, then change something, i.e., attitude, angle of bank, engine RPM. It's like a chess move where you want to try to think ahead of the AI and manipulate it into a bad situation. You can do this without blowing the Merlin.

 

V

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With that said, engine management is huge, but the Pony's Merlin will not match the AI's pure flight characteristics in regards to the 190's energy tactics.

 

That's a bold statement. There are quite a few DCS P-51D pilots who have no problem matching and outperforming the AI tactics.

 

As far as I've seen, my only issue with the AI pilot is the incredible gun accuracy. Perfectly placed deflection shots at extreme distance with no gyro gun site is a bit far fetched, but good defensive practice. The damage model for the AI 190 is obviously incomplete but just adds to the challenge.

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A good human pilot in the P-51 can conserve his energy better than the AI in a P-51. It stands to reason that the 190 AI is not perfect either in energy conservation. I think a cursory inspection of power to weight ratios will do a better job of explaining why we're all being outclimbed.:book:

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A good human pilot in the P-51 can conserve his energy better than the AI in a P-51. It stands to reason that the 190 AI is not perfect either in energy conservation. I think a cursory inspection of power to weight ratios will do a better job of explaining why we're all being outclimbed.:book:

 

Are you saying you've never out-climbed the 190 with the P-51? I've seen you shoot down plenty. And even if the pure climb ability is to the 190's favor there are plenty of ways to gain the advantage on him...

 

Just don't make any mistakes in the process :)

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