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Steam partnership premature?


ENO
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We're touching on this issue in a bit of a different light in the Multiplayer forum- but I'd like to see some input from the broader community. I'm only seeing it from an MP perspective so I'd like to see it from a different angle. (Edit: well- now it's in the multiplayer forum alongside the original thread so it's a bit redundant. Ah well)

 

The issue I'm taking with this is that hosts who have been fighting to keep doors unlocked have established regulars and loyal enthusiasts who are now bombarded on a nightly basis by questions like "How do I shoot" and "What is a rudder?"

 

So now, not only are we holding the baton to maintain our own servers in the absence of a dedicated ED / DCS server- but now we've had this new crew of pre-enthusiasts dropped on our lap with absolutely no reason to pay for a module at their level of interest. ie: Nothing in it for ED, and nothing in it for us.

 

No commitment required from these folks- yet we're stuck weeding through who is just going to dump it altogether after an hour of ransacking a server or actually learn a thing or two and invest in the DCS series.

 

Each new person is a prospective enthusiast- and we need those to see progress... I get it. But is this partnership going to help springboard development on the DCS dedicated server?

 

I understand that their business model goes beyond my perspective- but after well over a year and a half of hosting an open door 24/7 server, with the money on extra bandwidth, the time in editing missions, the hours checking in on it to ensure that it's running and to get it back up and running when it isn't, problem solving missions after almost every patch... and now having an entirely new community of users dumped on us without DCS being able to accommodate them on their own... Without a stable platform for us to host with... I mean- we STILL have to tell people experiencing frequent "connection interrupted" messages to make sure their speed setting is on LAN. C'mon... really?

 

Maybe I'm alone- but while I know that at a business level this Steam partnership must be profitable for someone... I would have liked them to have rolled out their dedicated server with a "test" area where brand new visitors to the series can go and fly unrestricted and those who want to help out can make a conscious decision to do so. People who haven't paid a penny have a UCID that allows them to go "HERE" while people who have committed to purchase have another UCID that allows them to go "HERE." Finished the training modules? Excellent... the door to the open public servers is unlocked!

 

I can lock the doors, and that resolves part of the issue- but we've left the doors open since the beginning because our vision has always been to sustain the broader community (as the series intends).

 

What is happening now, however, has put server hosts in a precarious position to have to decide how to properly manage this issue.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by ENO

"ENO"

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Technically speaking you have to learn to crawl before you walk. It's a learning curve that I'd rather happen now than later. As such -- I don't see it as premature at all. Given the premise, it would never be the right time for many users. Adapt and improve.

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I believe ED could (and should) work on creating short school for newcomers (aka n00bs :D)... meaning:

 

You can't go to MP unless you complete successfully few SP missions which includes:

 

- how to start an aircraft

- how to take off (must taxi to runway or immediate fail), learn to fly (basics turns, rolls, etc) and land

- how to operate avionics

- complete few simple intercepts (learn how to deploy the weapons)

- complete few missile evasion techniques

 

once these are completed in SP, only then are they allowed to login to MP... so the won't be asking st**id questions like this :D

 

I know this might seem harsh (to newcomers) but if we are to reduce/stop absolute starters who (I know) can be hard to look/read in MP we need something like this... if nothing else then each server needs to make very clear in mission brief that some basic knowledge should be a must and that it is not very nice to get online (for those that are not new to this) and only read messages about how to do this, how to do that... basically takes the fun of air combat away by having to type instead of fly ;)

Also, just point them to this website and tell them to start RTFM :D

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What about a simple questionary form which pops up before login with a couple of relevant random questions to tick off before allowed into mission. Will make everyone have to refresh key things from let say the flight manuals. This will make ppl learn things over time. But then there is the development effort of this....

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Sorry I ve just sew this thread so ill cp from a similar thread i ve just posted:

 

How about we stop arguing about if its ok to help them and forget our online attack missions, and actually sit down and find a solution for those poor little ''steam invaders''?

Having them hopping on a server setted up for battle and not for training, for me is a no go.

There are people that dnt use TS and need the chat to post vital information(hdg, alt etc).

For me it is better to point those people to a training server (if there is any)

setted up particularly for basic training, keyboard functions etc, posted on massages through

the use of mission triggers or SLMOD.

 

 

ED should have such a server long before their move on steam. Even the training videos for the su25t are bugged...(Wags said that he will redo them himself) but this had to be done before they gave the su25t for free. It was intended as a good advertisement after all. But believe me, many new people that came from steam, tried the tut videos and they just uninstalled the game. I am afraid to say that this looks like there is no business plan behind the steam move. Many ''steam invaders'' where already disappointed from the game without even knowing it.

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I think the problem will resolve itself soon enough. As TaliG pointed out, most will have enough issues that they will uninstall and move on to the next Steam offering after a short time.

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No way that would work,a sim as detailed as A-10C would take the average person months to learn. I'm not buying your product if I have to study for months to use MP. The simplest solution would be to add a note to the server i.e. experienced only,noobs welcomed etc.

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Maybe you can name your server like "experienced players only"? Probably a noob will select other server instead of yours, it may help.

But I totally agree that ED should have open servers for the community and put this information on Steam forums.

 

I believe the materials for beginners are good already, they just need to be more divulged. (This is probably wrong spelled).

 

And what's the problem to use an Xbox controller anyway?

I completed every single player mission (not the campaign, I'm having a hard time completing it, which is good =]) for SU-25T with an xbox controller and keyboard, using the realism option and lately without labels. Game mode was never a option for me.

Xbox controller analog sticks and buttons are very precise and possibly a better option than a cheap joystick (in my opinion).

 

I am using it until I can buy my X52 anyway.

 

EDIT: Suggestion sniped.

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I believe ED could (and should) work on creating short school for newcomers (aka n00bs biggrin.gif)... meaning:

 

You can't go to MP unless you complete successfully few SP missions which includes:

 

- how to start an aircraft

- how to take off (must taxi to runway or immediate fail), learn to fly (basics turns, rolls, etc) and land

- how to operate avionics

- complete few simple intercepts (learn how to deploy the weapons)

- complete few missile evasion techniques

 

once these are completed in SP, only then are they allowed to login to MP... so the won't be asking st**id questions like this biggrin.gif

 

I know this might seem harsh (to newcomers) but if we are to reduce/stop absolute starters who (I know) can be hard to look/read in MP we need something like this... if nothing else then each server needs to make very clear in mission brief that some basic knowledge should be a must and that it is not very nice to get online (for those that are not new to this) and only read messages about how to do this, how to do that... basically takes the fun of air combat away by having to type instead of fly wink.gif

Also, just point them to this website and tell them to start RTFM biggrin.gif

 

I don't really think too highly of mandatory things. MP should be open as soon as you download the game. But any player should be made well aware of training modes and missions and encouraged to start there if they are new.

 

Just locking things away has as much chance as making people learn to do things once, then jump into MP and then ask questions anyway as it does to actually get them to learn.

 

And even the ones that want to learn are going to ask questions after this anyway, especially if something like missile evasion is one of the required steps. They'll memorize the situation in the training missile, then move online, have Iglas coming from nowhere and wonder what just happened.

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Well as a stand in measure I have preambled all my "situation" descriptions with a quick message:

 

The Firehouse is a server intended to help enthusiasts of the DCS series enhance their existing skills in a variety of advanced custom missions. Basic knowledge of flight and your platform of choice is expected.

 

MINIMAL (IF ANY) SUPPORT SHOULD BE EXPECTED BY THOSE NOT ON TS3. THOSE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO RESPECT THESE PARAMETERS WILL BE KICKED OR BANNED AS NECESSARY.

 

Join us on SimHQ's TS3 (free reg required)

 

 

I suspect that will actually attract a certain element who will just come in to thumb their nose at "the institution" but I have enough admins around who can kick and ban if that's what it comes to.

 

I'd rather not have to be the one pre-screening people and maintain the opinion that ED should be playing a more active role in the MP deliberations- but 1 small step at a time eh?

 

I just won't tell anyone about the LAN "connection interrupted" problem... and let that bug sort out the uninitiated. They'll move on in no time- like many of us almost did.

"ENO"

Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret.

 

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I was asked a mess of questions, then when the pilot crashed, he left after saying he's going back to BF3 because the planes are "More Realistic":megalol::megalol:

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And what's the problem to use an Xbox controller anyway?

I completed every single player mission (not the campaign, I'm having a hard time completing it, which is good =]) for SU-25T with an xbox controller and keyboard, using the realism option and lately without labels. Game mode was never a option for me.

Xbox controller analog sticks and buttons are very precise and possibly a better option than a cheap joystick (in my opinion).

 

I am using it until I can buy my X52 anyway.

 

That will work for the FC3 series. Not for the more realistic DCS: Series.

Even in DCS: Warthog, your going to find there just aren't quite enough buttons on the X52 to use it properly. I have an old joystick somewhat similiar to X52 and I have to use my keyboard quite regularly which causes a lot of problems when trying to maintain situational awareness, because there is a lot of instruments / enemy to keep continuous track of. For instance, trying to sight in / lock the maverick seeker head and do a force correlate.

 

I was asked a mess of questions, then when the pilot crashed, he left after saying he's going back to BF3 because the planes are "More Realistic"megalol.gifmegalol.gif

 

LMAO! Yeah, as I was saying in the Arma 3 thread, these are the "kiddies" who are coming in and causing havock on the Arma servers. They have a weird sense of "reality". I guess were the next target.


Edited by Bigby Wolf
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What is happening now, however, has put server hosts in a precarious position to have to decide how to properly manage this issue.

 

Thoughts?

@ENO and all others that host a open server:

 

 

Please have a look what you can do to make life easier for the newbies and yourself when you host a open server

>>> Keyboard controls for the Su-25T listed inside the Kneeboard

 


Edited by PeterP

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I think the problem will resolve itself soon enough. As TaliG pointed out, most will have enough issues that they will uninstall and move on to the next Steam offering after a short time.

 

chiclidfan, I am in agreement.

 

I, too, am seeing folks join Hollo Pointe and flip from one slot to the next to the next, looking for anything they can actually get into. Typically, a couple minutes later they leave. Sometimes they will ask the stupid stuff - I don't really have much patience for it, but so far one of the other nicer folks has come to their rescue.

 

 

I run Slmod. I have an idea to check on - either how to modify the Slmod MOTD to say to these folks that they are not welcome if they can't start up,,, or else a canned message that can be fired off when these folks do persist. "RTFM, I don't have time to read it to you!"

 

WC

 

 

edit --> Or change the server name to 'Hollo Pointe RTFM Server'

Visit the Hollo Pointe DCS World server -- an open server with a variety of COOP & H2H missions including Combined Arms. All released missions are available for free download, modification and public hosting, from my Wrecking Crew Projects site.

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I was asked a mess of questions, then when the pilot crashed, he left after saying he's going back to BF3 because the planes are "More Realistic":megalol::megalol:

 

Welcome to teh internet :D

 

If someone starts asking question about how to start an engine then I usually tell them to RTFM :vertag:. Offended? Not my problem. RTFM

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I personally think improving the interface on the MP server search would give big bang for the buck. If you could sort or filter on realism/difficulty amongst other things it would probably keep a lot of that errant steam off of the more "serious" servers. If they want game mode let them find game mode. I'm not saying to force anyone away from the already scarce number of dedicated servers... just a little help "guiding" people to where they are set up for best success. Of course, this will only really work if they have populated servers to go to and hopefully ED will help with that eventually by creating dedicated servers of their own to relieve some of these growing pains.

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That will work for the FC3 series. Not for the more realistic DCS: Series.

Even in DCS: Warthog, your going to find there just aren't quite enough buttons on the X52 to use it properly. I have an old joystick somewhat similiar to X52 and I have to use my keyboard quite regularly which causes a lot of problems when trying to maintain situational awareness, because there is a lot of instruments / enemy to keep continuous track of. For instance, trying to sight in / lock the maverick seeker head and do a force correlate.

 

Yes indeed! I just meant that was useful for me in the start but yes, I need to use the keyboard even for SU-25T and it's annoying.

But my next step will be the X52 Pro. More than that and I feel that I will be overspending.

I think it's good to slowly improve both my skills and setup overtime.


Edited by Flanker47
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I saw a lot of these people yesterday. They used keyboards and Xbox controllers :)

 

Fact using keyboard doesn't make them n00bs :) In the past I've used keyboard too and it was quite *pleasant*. All keys in front of you. Many *advanced* folks with hardware for hundreds of new manufactured by FED dollars failed :D

 

There was only limitation in formation flying, where you just wasn't able to keep straight level and glue to the rest of the wing. Precision of movement was too low.

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Fact using keyboard doesn't make them n00bs :) In the past I've used keyboard too and it was quite *pleasant*. All keys in front of you. Many *advanced* folks with hardware for hundreds of new manufactured by FED dollars failed :D

 

There was only limitation in formation flying, where you just wasn't able to keep straight level and glue to the rest of the wing. Precision of movement was too low.

 

Come on pal.. flying a sim with your keyboard is like painting with your foot toes. It is possible.

But its done only by people that do not have hands. And dnt tell me that people are poor to buy a cheap joystick. Those people are just curious to see the game and nothing more.

And believe me, in order to follow this sim (DCS) you have t be at least a devoted simmer.

Those people spend 300-800 usd to buy graphics cards in order to play fps games, dnt tell me that they dnt have 60 usd to spend for their true hobby. It is not their true hobby.

Dnt let them destroy ours...because it is rely hard to find and really precious for most of as.


Edited by TaliG

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“Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.”

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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And believe me, in order to follow this sim (DCS) you have t be at least a devoted simmer.

Those people spend 300-800 usd to buy graphics cards in order to play fps games, dnt tell me that they dnt have 60 usd to spend for their true hobby. It is not their true hobby.

Dnt let them destroy ours...because it is rely hard to find and really precious for most of as.

 

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Jerry-Seinfeld-No-Thanks-and-Leave.gif

 

One pic, 1000 words, a video, a full encyclopaedia :megalol:

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“Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.”

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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