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I need help combating enemy air defenses


Wags94
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I've been playing DCS World with the Su-25T, and I've gotten the hang of flying the aircraft correctly and employing all the weapons systems, for the most part. I even understand the Russian RWR from my experiences flying the Su-27 in LOMAC. However, I can't seem to fly the Su-25T into combat for very long until I get shot down by MANPADs and other air defenses.

 

Air Defenses that use radar and AAA are normally not too much of a problem, its mostly just the MANPADs. I just can't ever seem to spot them, and they always seem to get me. Can anybody offer any tips, tricks, or tactics? I'm not too used to ground-pounding, as I usually fly fighters.

 

Thanks! :)

"Don't tell mom I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano at a whore house."

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PATIENCE

Keep your distance while scanning whit the Skhval from 20 to 10 km away.

Extend and repeat.

don't be afraid to use autopilot while scanning

(ideally you have a wing men to spot launches and/or an KA-50/A-10C acting as JTAC)

 

Make sure to activate your rear hemisphere IR jammer.

Believe its LShift E, green light should illuminate close to the gear lever.

This should trow off most IR guided missiles within a cone of X degrees off your 6.

 

Use Pre-emptive flares when running in on a target, use twice the amount when extending cause your hot exhaust is now pointed at the defenses.

 

Whenever possible fly above 4000 meters AGL. This greatly reduces the manpads engagement zone.

Could still get hit though if you fly straight over em.

 

The 25T is an relatively heavy airframe that doesn't turn to great and loses speed quickly.

As such make sure you end your attack runs whit 450 km/h of speed or more.

Giving you some spare energy to use in defensive manouvres for when you manage to spot the launch.

 

Extending the flaps "one notch" (meaning manouver position) can also help.

Mind the extra drag though.

 

This should get you started. And yes, targets are just really hard to spot whit the Skhval.

It helps if there is a good briefing from which you can deduct on were to search for the targets.

Keep in mind that the Skvhal is mainly a means of engagement.

Not a means of searching for targets. (i think at least)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
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Avoidance is the typical tactic against manpads. Anything more proactive is just a needless risk to your airframe in most cases.

 

If you want practice dodging these missiles though, you should set up a mission with them in known locations, possibly set your aircraft to invulnerable so you don't have to restart a mission, and let yourself get engaged and practice evasion.

 

As for those times when you can't avoid being in the manpads sights, as Falcon said preemptive flares on a run are good, avoid long runs that make you an easy target, and be smart. If you know there are manpads there don't use a weapon that forces you to come down into the heart of his engagement zone. If you're pretty sure you're on the edge you can probably take a higher risk, but judging how to use the tools at hand is really the hardest part of any pilot's job, and the core of what makes an experienced one better.

 

This also basically applies to any and all aircraft.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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Today I got shot 4-5 times while overflying TA. The one thing that saved my life was a spiral 4-5 G roll down to the ground.

 

Basically the missiles either are command guided or homing and the maneuvers to break both are either the one described above or staving off TA and using standoff weapons (AGM/Kh missiles).

 

THE OPTIMAL MISSILE EVASION MANEUVER IS TO BREAK THE ENEMY RADAR LOCK BY DESCENDING IN A STEEP SPIRAL UNTIL THE ENEMY IS LOCATED ON YOUR 3–9 LINE WHILE ACTIVATING ECM AND DISPENSING CHAFF

For IR sams, flares are your friend. It also helps to study TA threats mentioned in briefing in terms of min/max range, and guidance system, where you develop sort of profiles for dispensing either chaff, or flares. With command guidance, the missile is tracked by a ground launcher or its self. With semi-active guidance, the missile has components inside to guide itself to the target (which is a semi-fire and forget missile)

 

 

 

One neat trick to do, is to open the mission editor, and open the mission in question, edit the mission options to enable padlocking (which works with command guided only) and map threat missile padlock to a HOTAS key or combo. This with practice can help you achieve better SA for defeating the missile.

 

 

The neatest trick of all, is to fly so high, that defensive maneuvers wont crash you. I find 19,000 ft to be the best altitude in A-10C.

 

 

Lastly, the missile sort of has a picture of your aircraft and it strives to meet that picture. How to get out of a picture fast? You run like hell, meaning you perform close to max G maneuvers while still having a leeway of altitude to recover and egress. Pay attention to JTAC's egress 9-line directive. It will help you sustain less damage and possibly rinse and repeat more attacks for higher kill count/mission.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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If you know there are manpads there don't use a weapon that forces you to come down into the heart of his engagement zone. If you're pretty sure you're on the edge you can probably take a higher risk, but judging how to use the tools at hand is really the hardest part of any pilot's job, and the core of what makes an experienced one better.

 

Basically the missiles either are command guided or homing and the maneuvers to break both are either the one described above or staving off TA and using standoff weapons (AGM/Kh missiles).

 

These are the reasons that I tend to avoid using Vihkrs with the Toad. They're a great missile, but I'm just not very good at dipping the nose low enough to fire while staying above MANPAD engagement zones. Add that to the fact that I get greedy and want to hit 3 targets on a single run and bam! I find myself shot down by SHORAD quite reliably.

 

One other note: the Toad has decent fuel quantity. Be patient and don't drop down into dangerous zones just because you want to hit multiple targets, or even score a kill on every single run. You stay alive by playing it safe.

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Just limit yourself to a single Vikhr and there's no need to get within the engagement zone of even a Strela-10. Altitude isn't a good defense in my opinion because most of your weapons are ineffective at that height. There's no way to be accurate with bombs and rockets from up there, and you've got no place to hide if there are SAMs or bandits.

 

That tail-mounted IR jammer is practically magical, too.


Edited by maturin
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guys I found this great mod (haven't tried it myself)

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=110840

 

its for A-10C RWR and should be interesting to try with this mission:

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/214324/

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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About altitude, keep in mind that you can and should change it as needed.

 

But flying close to or even over areas known to harbor enemy ground equipment. Above 4000 meters is a good idea.

 

Though, as Maturin said, fighters may prevent you from doing this.

 

About vikhr's from high altitude, make sure you have the target lock in skhval at least 12 km out.

Dive down and launch using launch override from 10 to 11 km out.

After launching gently pull back on the stick to reduce the planes pitch angle to a positive 5 degrees which will greatly help in reducing your rate of decent.

Flaps to the maneuver setting will help reduce it even more.

 

And as said before, don't get greedy, 1 vikr per run in.

Unless your absolutely certain that there is no anti air threats around, then you might wanna risk 2 launches.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
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Take LLTV pod. This helps to spot ground targets. Might not cover MANPADS as they are too small from height.

Have you tried to reduce your heat signature by reducing your throttle while popping flares? Theoretically this should help but lets try it in the game :-)

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Take LLTV pod. This helps to spot ground targets. Might not cover MANPADS as they are too small from height.

Have you tried to reduce your heat signature by reducing your throttle while popping flares? Theoretically this should help but lets try it in the game :-)

 

 

You could shut down the engine too!

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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