PVP srever runners consider this

[SFAL]

Hello all

 

i have a proposition that i like to put out there..

 

Lately flying on the 51st and the 104th myself and others came accross players whos behevaior became suspicious to me and also for others.

 

This can be due to HIGH PING (150ms is high i think) or some ellborate way or tricking the inegrity check.

 

I like to see that the owners of these servers randomly ask for the player .trk file. If u have nothing to hide you send it.

This could be very usefull to filter out people who just play for the kill and not for the experience for it.

 

So what do u guys think?

[TurboHog]

You ask for a someone's track file?

 

Would only work if there is some kind of automated way of getting someone's track file.

 

But asking for a track file and make a random person send it seems extremely impractical to me. Most of them do not answer questions via chat. Let alone...

[159th_Falcon]

150 ms is just fine, depending on distance between client and host.

 

What was so suspicious about there behavior?

And how would an track file possibly prove anything?

 

All it contains are mission files and a means to replicate the flight.

It does not contain any config files from the clients computer as far as i know.

 

And as said, it would be impractical.

Along whit the fact that especially MP tracks get corrupted quite easily.

[Rhinox]

...I like to see that the owners of these servers randomly ask for the player .trk file. If u have nothing to hide you send it.

And what if I have nothing to hide and nothing to send? AFAIK it is possible to "turn off" track recording (or at least set its maximum size very small, so it stops recording pretty soon). Some mates do this to reduce stuttering due to writing to disk during play, to save some write-cycles for their SSDs, and/or to squeeze 0.001 fps more...

[Wrecking Crew]

Suspicious and obnoxious behavior can be countered with the Slmod -

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979

 

This tool has Kick and Ban capabilities.

 

WC

[GGTharos]

I think you should say what the suspicious behavior is.

 

We don't care for accusations on the forum, but if there is a problem with the game or a particular concern that you have about how things looks or are happening, then I'd certainly look at it and in some cases, so would the devs.

 

We don't need to know names or anything, we're not interested in calling out MP cheaters in this respect, only looking at game behaviors.

 

So what do u guys think?

[Bandit.]

has dcs ever considered using some kind of anti cheat like punkbuster? would the community be willing to accept this?

 

pb takes screenshots and makes them available. i have seen amazing things accomplished with pb with the help of server admins.

[159th_Falcon]

has dcs ever considered using some kind of anti cheat like punkbuster? would the community be willing to accept this?

 

pb takes screenshots and makes them available. i have seen amazing things accomplished with pb with the help of server admins.

 

There's no cheats really.

And we already have the integrity check. Maybe make it a bit more strict?

[GGTharos]

There's no point. It's a lot of effort, where cheats are far and few inbetween. The most common obnoxious behaviors are team killing and bombing your own runways or killing friendly AI units etc.

 

Those are generally dealt with with the help of SLMod.

 

has dcs ever considered using some kind of anti cheat like punkbuster? would the community be willing to accept this?

 

pb takes screenshots and makes them available. i have seen amazing things accomplished with pb with the help of server admins.

[SFAL]

The sort of beheviour that makes people acuse others cheaters...

 

I have seen players just drop off the screen in a dogfight only to find him on my six 2 sec latter...and the interesting thing about this: happened with the same player... over and over again.

 

Also seen in BVR the pilot notched me dropped to lawn mover mode picked him up on radar lockhim.... and again just disapear... only to get lunch warng on rwr...

my wingman was behind me 3 miles watching this and told me it came out from the mountain...not behind....but from...

 

i understand that the rwr has blind spots... i knida know where these are...

 

i have seen lagswitches on other games..... can they be used to create abnormal behaviour?

 

On the .trk files spot cheks...

yes i understand that they can be 10-120mgb but unless some sort of punkbuster is used the inegrity chek can be fooled.... illegal payloads...just use a diffrend name in the option menu....

 

Becouse there is no other way to have a positive chek on acusation i dont see any other way. And as i said nothing to hide nothing to fear... if im asked i would ask the reason...neturaly but being fair i would provide it

[GGTharos]

I have seen players just drop off the screen in a dogfight only to find him on my six 2 sec latter...and the interesting thing about this: happened with the same player... over and over again.

 

He has a bad (jittery) connection. Won't be the last time you see something like this.

 

Also seen in BVR the pilot notched me dropped to lawn mover mode picked him up on radar lockhim.... and again just disapear... only to get lunch warng on rwr...

my wingman was behind me 3 miles watching this and told me it came out from the mountain...not behind....but from...

 

Doesn't mean anything at all. Here you need either a trk or tacview at least.

 

i have seen lagswitches on other games..... can they be used to create abnormal behaviour?

 

Of course, but can you tell them apart from legitimate lag? No, you can just tell that person not to return to the server. What if the problem was on your side, though?

 

yes i understand that they can be 10-120mgb but unless some sort of punkbuster is used the inegrity chek can be fooled.... illegal payloads...just use a diffrend name in the option menu....

 

And punkbuster can't be fooled? SLMod works fairly well- it will ban UCIDs, not names. If that person wants to come in and cheat again, they have to buy another copy of the software.

 

Becouse there is no other way to have a positive chek on acusation i dont see any other way. And as i said nothing to hide nothing to fear... if im asked i would ask the reason...neturaly but being fair i would provide it

 

Again, not going to happen, and 'if you have nothing to hide' is not a valid attitude. People don't need to share anything with you, or prove anything to you, and they may also have nothing to hide.

 

Again, cheaters, AFAIK, are so far and few inbetween that as far as I know, it's simply not worth ED's time to integrate PB, and frankly, I refuse to run spyware on my PC (that's what PB really is :) ).

 

I haven't heard of server owners complaining about huge amounts of cheaters - we certainly had some interesting incidents that ED has dealt with, but that was a rare occasion and it's done now.

[Grimes]

As GG mentioned, having a tacview of the incident will display exactly what you saw on your side of the connection. So if if a player has a spotty connection, you should be able to notice it. If the connection is fine up to the point whenever that player gets into engagements, then yeah that might be a little suspicious, but its nothing to start a witch hunt over. The main problem with using tacview is that the last time I checked the 51st and 104th disable the export lua environment, so tacview can only be recorded with an MP track afterward and that is likely to have discrepancies.

[GGTharos]

In fact, in the olden time of LO, players started lagging when locked up etc ... because their PC's would slow down/stutter/whatever while playing the locked on sound. Those players were not cheating. Cheating requires intent.

[SFAL]

As always GG im not trying to force anyone but rather create a discussion...

I have an opinion, i share it and i wait for feedback. I said some sort of PB not PB which is a spyware as im aware of that as well.

 

I would like to get the best soulution but short of a software which can be fooled i came up with this idea. Not perfect but its not intrusive.

 

Have you got a better idea? Has anyone?

This is what i like to find out and we ALL take it from there?! :)

[SFAL]

As GG mentioned, having a tacview of the incident will display exactly what you saw on your side of the connection. So if if a player has a spotty connection, you should be able to notice it. If the connection is fine up to the point whenever that player gets into engagements, then yeah that might be a little suspicious, but its nothing to start a witch hunt over. The main problem with using tacview is that the last time I checked the 51st and 104th disable the export lua environment, so tacview can only be recorded with an MP track afterward and that is likely to have discrepancies.

 

 

thanks i could not have said it better

[TaliG]

Servers look for ''specific file's'' integrity. I ve seen players curry more weapons, and on pilons that are impossible to load such weapons. Can you please update this integrity check?

For lag issues I cannot say anything. All servers that I join ( I join from Greece) I always get pings from 100 to 180, and I find no problem at all. And no other player encountered any problem with me.

[Frostie]

The main problem with using tacview is that the last time I checked the 51st and 104th disable the export lua environment, so tacview can only be recorded with an MP track afterward and that is likely to have discrepancies.

The idea of Integrity checks and disabling export lua is to prevent the accusations of cheating more so than the actual cheating itself. If these were not enforced then all measure of accusations would start to be banded around.

 

In my experience it takes guys a good few years of flying PvP, watching tracks and tacviews to get a full understanding of all the little quirks and what is actually happening when things seem wrong.

 

Having been moderating servers for quite sometime it is apparent that a lot of less experienced users tend to see plenty of these quirks as cheating and can get pretty hung up on it, things as simple as no radar warning(because of RWR gimbals) to network lag and tacview imperfections are some of the common ones.

 

My advice is that if you see something out of the ordinary for you, report it to the server admin, via pm preferably, with a track or tacview and then possible explanations can be either given or further investigation can take place. The biggest cheat seems to be weapon exploitation, I would say 8 or 9 times out of 10 there is nothing that can't be explained as innocent DCSism.

[Bandit.]

 

 

And punkbuster can't be fooled? SLMod works fairly well- it will ban UCIDs, not names. If that person wants to come in and cheat again, they have to buy another copy of the software.

 

 

 

absolutely true. punkbuster by itself is next to useless. however with some community support that makes custom checks and updates them with current know cheats plus making pb screenshots available publicly. it is always a valid solution. im suggesting it because of the complaints. honestly i haven't noticed any cheat while i have flown. of course it doesnt mean its not happening.

 

one advantage pb has is being able to generate costume ban lists. you can ban names, uid, ip's( not recommended) and mac address.

 

as i said i would suggest this if the cheating problem starts to get out of hand if it isnt and slmod is capable of handling current problems. well you know what they say, dont fix what aint broken.