Fw-190 zooms away when disengaging

[reilar]

Have someone else noticed a different behaviour of the Fw-190 since 1.2.5? When he's badly hurt he will try to disengange by zooming away. I can't recall that I have noticed this before. Is this maybe due to some changes of the AI behaviour? I haven't tried this out for other AI enemies yet. Could this be something common for all AIs now (when appropriate)?

 

Is this accurate? Does a Fw-190 have better zoom climb performance than a P-51?

[Yo-Yo]

At certain altitudes because Dora uses now 1900 hp rating (without MW)

[NineLine]

I have seen the P-51 and Dora disengage if damaged enough, not 100% of the time, but I dont think the action is new.

[reilar]

Yes, I have seen them disengage in earlier builds as well, but not by zoom climbing. But if Dora has got some extra power I guess this is a more effective way of disengaging.

Anyway, I think it's cool and the first time I noticed it I wasn't prepared and it took me a long way to catch up and finishing him off. In a situation when there are more enemies around I think that is not a valid option anymore if he has a long enough head start. In earlier builds there were seldom a problem to catch up with him. When he was dameged enough he just put on the position lights (quite a clear telltale) and slowly desended for the home base.

[gavagai]

I am saving any conclusions about DCS Fw 190D-9 performance for the actual release. Although I am concerned that we'll get a paper tiger without MW50, the AI climb seems promising.

[NineLine]

While I am on the side of wanting to see the MW 50 modeled as well (partly for the management of it), the 190 even without it should be a decent enough opponent to the P-51D if the 190 plays to its strengths...

 

I am saving any conclusions about DCS Fw 190D-9 performance for the actual release. Although I am concerned that we'll get a paper tiger without MW50, the AI climb seems promising.

[reilar]

... if the 190 plays to its strengths...

 

Which are its strengths actually? As it is simulated now it seems to be a pure energy fighter. Does the 190 have any other advantages (compared to the P-51D) other than great climb performance?

[NineLine]

I am scared to answer this question on a forum :)

 

I think, that climb is one of the big ones, mid to lower altitudes are more the Dora's wheel house from what I read, higher altitudes belong to the Mustang. Fire power I think goes to the Dora. In a turning fight the Mustang should prevail... but then lets see with two evenly matched pilots... Another thing I read is that the Dora was easier to fly/manage, now ask an American pilot about that back then you might have got the answer that they preferred the control over the airplane they had compared to what the Dora cockpit offered... so opinions can be highly subjective.

 

What will be interesting is back then, the quality of the German pilot was starting to dwindle, Allies had the numbers and the experience shifting in their favor, so I think German loses increased because of that. Now we have these planes with a more even playing field it will be interesting to see which one comes out on top, or if they end up being pretty even.

 

This answer is all very simplistic... so take it at that :)

 

 

Edit: The Dora was meaner looking too... that's got to count for something.... :D

Edited July 25, 2013 by NineLine

[reilar]

Thanks for your opinion. I won't shoot you for that;) unless I meet you in the virtual skies that is. But I know what you mean.

 

I haven't given the altitude that much attention when I've tested out the P-51 against the 190. Mostly I've flying around at 5k ft (that is low altitude, right?). I think I will try to set up a simple mission in the editor and see if there are any differenses on 10k (middle?) and 20k (high?).

The 190 seems to give a greater punch in the hull compared to what the Mustang can do when firing the guns. And I've also read that the 190 can take more punishment than the Mustang can do.

All-in-all it seems to be the right tactics to look for the angel when you're in a Mustang and using the energy advantage when you're in a Dora.

[gavagai]

Try an altitude just below the 2nd P-51 supercharger stage. That will give you fits!

[sobek]

And I've also read that the 190 can take more punishment than the Mustang can do.

 

My bet is that you read about the A model, since it has an air cooled radial. The Dora has a watercooled inline engine making it about as fragile as the Mustang.

[NineLine]

My bet is that you read about the A model, since it has an air cooled radial. The Dora has a watercooled inline engine making it about as fragile as the Mustang.

 

 

And actually, and I base this on no facts whatsoever, but if the Dora had more automated functions it stands to reason those systems my be harder to deal with when damaged... but I could be talking out of my ass :D

[Yob]

And actually, and I base this on no facts whatsoever, but if the Dora had more automated functions it stands to reason those systems my be harder to deal with when damaged... but I could be talking out of my ass :D

 

Well the dora and A models used a electric type control which means that it was harder to destroy a pilots control over the plane by hitting a control cable like in the 51

[sobek]

Well the dora and A models used a electric type control which means that it was harder to destroy a pilots control over the plane by hitting a control cable like in the 51

 

Are you sure about that? The only thing i heard of on the Dora being unusually electrified is the inductive gun firing mechanism.

[tintifaxl]

Try an altitude just below the 2nd P-51 supercharger stage. That will give you fits!

 

Engage the 2nd stage manually. When I was flying the provided campaign back in the days there was this mission at high alt and the supercharger switched @20k feet. Much too late - even in the manual it stated 2nd stage is engaged ~13-14k. Maybe they fixed this already.

[gavagai]

Are you sure about that? The only thing i heard of on the Dora being unusually electrified is the inductive gun firing mechanism.

 

I remember that tid-bit from "wings of the luftwaffe" back in the mid 90s on the discovery channel before reality TV ruined everything. The narrator (with the authoritative British accent) makes it sound as if all of the control surfaces were electrified, but it was only the horizontal stabilizer adjustment for trim.

 

Engage the 2nd stage manually. When I was flying the provided campaign back in the days there was this mission at high alt and the supercharger switched @20k feet. Much too late - even in the manual it stated 2nd stage is engaged ~13-14k. Maybe they fixed this already.

 

I think that has been fixed. I'll check later today. Whether or not you switch manually there is a worst altitude for the Mustang where the Fw 190D-9 should be at an advantage.

 

--------------

 

The 2nd stage kicks in at 15,500ft. You can definitely get more power by manually switching it on earlier.

Edited July 26, 2013 by gavagai
determined altitude for automatic switch

[Yob]

I remember that tid-bit from "wings of the luftwaffe" back in the mid 90s on the discovery channel before reality TV ruined everything. The narrator (with the authoritative British accent) makes it sound as if all of the control surfaces were electrified, but it was only the horizontal stabilizer adjustment for trim.

 

 

 

I think that has been fixed. I'll check later today. Whether or not you switch manually there is a worst altitude for the Mustang where the Fw 190D-9 should be at an advantage.

 

--------------

 

The 2nd stage kicks in at 15,500ft. You can definitely get more power by manually switching it on earlier.

 

Well there ya go, i should really keep to my area of expertise.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

for me it also seems that at least the FW190 AI behaviour has changed a bit with 125...

i also saw them disengaging a few times already,...sometimes they dive pretty steep towards the ground with full speed, just to level off a few ft before impact, to run away on tree top level.

also the already mentioned zoom escape seems new to me.its true that ive seen AI disengaging before 125, but this zoom climb seems different now.

yesterday i got some good shots on one of those butchers, then it zoomed away, and i couldnt catch up with him...he disappeared...so i circled in the area where ive lost him, and gained some altitude...a few minutes later, i saw him engaging again...quite a lot of fun with those AI buddies lately!

[Merlin-27]

I've seen some different behavior as well after 1.2.5. For me the AI 190 likes to do a steady climb to around 12,000 feet after taking some damage then eventually he does a steep dive to resume the fight.

[westr]

Im glad its not just me the behaviour of the FW-190 is certainly different in 1.2.5

[Fuzzy_bear]

Is it just me or does the 190 have a solid one piece molded tungsten airframe lavishly coated with many layers of indestructible Kevlar paint impervious to P51 ammunition? It looks like Swiss cheese after I've made about 20 passes but they just don't want to die, maybe i was pranked and the ground crew loaded me up with rubber bullets. And I think the AI is using some new special kind of P51 seeking guided smart bullets!

[Merlin-27]

Is it just me or does the 190 have a solid one piece molded tungsten airframe lavishly coated with many layers of indestructible Kevlar paint impervious to P51 ammunition? It looks like Swiss cheese after I've made about 20 passes but they just don't want to die, maybe i was pranked and the ground crew loaded me up with rubber bullets. And I think the AI is using some new special kind of P51 seeking guided smart bullets!

 

 

What skilll level? It will die.. I promise.

 

I also noticed you can shoot the empennage completely off of the 190 and see it fall away from the aircraft however one regrows instantaneously. I do like the direction that is going in... as I happen to enjoy shooting parts off of enemy aircraft.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i dont know, i dont seem to have a problem to shoot them down.

wings and tail section break away constantly, and also they tend to catch fire pretty quickly...(btw, ED, its a nice looking fire now!)

[gavagai]

Question: What is the risk to the engine if I turn on the 2nd stage manually at, e.g. 10,000ft? I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but it seems to increase the likelihood of breaking the engine, even if the MP and engine temp stay below redline.

[Yo-Yo]

Question: What is the risk to the engine if I turn on the 2nd stage manually at, e.g. 10,000ft? I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but it seems to increase the likelihood of breaking the engine, even if the MP and engine temp stay below redline.

 

 

You just take more power to the blower and lower available (indicator) power lowering air density.