Stability problems with 1.2.5.

[Manuster86]

I found stability problems with 1.2.5.

In particular, when you see the different units FPS collapse abruptly.

I personally went below 10 FPS.

Before this was not the case and has nothing to do with the graphics options.

 

Have you also had the same problem or just about me?

Thank you.

[xXNightEagleXx]

starting to get very pissed off

 

Guys this situation just became unacceptable. I can't accept it anymore, the further we go the more unstable it gets.

As a programmer i cannot accept it, this project just go against everything that i learned in a big company with more than 250k employers. You can't just develop a software without considerate stability, you can't just upgrade without preserving stability. Signs of really bad engineering.

On one of our projects we had performance issue, what have we done? simple, we worked on tools to analyse where was the performance issue, spotted and restored the performance with a 25+% gain. It was up to us to provide a software with good performance and not up to the customer to deal with bad performance.

 

This software house act similar to those poor programmer whose blame the user and never its own code (which is the contrary of what most university teach, whenever the user has difficulties those are sign of not enough effort by programmers) in this case they act just like well the game features/effects improves so it gets heavy don't blame us...wrong this is a very bad mentality, typically of bad programmers or bad project engineering.

 

I was working on a dynamic campaign and it already reached a good point, but i will not proceed with the work because there is not a stable environment. Honestly at this stage, missing dynamic campaign are nothing compared to this big stability issue.

 

Now i wonder if this EDGE will solve anything, since it is more about terrain. I really don't think that a big part of the issues is due to the terrain engine (i hope so but i doubt). ED should focus on bringing back stability.

It is obvious that they weren't able to handle all this upgrades/modules without messing the engine and if they don't stop further develops to start focusing on stability things will get worse.

 

To those who will come out saying stop complaining and bla bla bla, i say just SHUT UP. I can't stand it as a programmer no i really cannot, and don't come either with the well instead of criticism you should give solutions (which are harder to come up with), i'd answer....staff change or missing key figures.

If someone like to cheer to a company like a fanboy or a shareholder then good for him, i'm no fanboy for any company and neither a shareholder so i just want to see the final result.....which always get worse.

 

In conclusion, too easy to destroy the game performance at each upgrade/update and come up with "the game is getting heavier due to new features. We are working on performance and stability but not for this update...we are aware but keep patience (after more than a year of bad update which just make the situation worse), don't complain because we already wrote it in the release note".

Edited July 26, 2013 by xXNightEagleXx

[hypersonik]

i too did notice heavy FPS lost on an airport with static units and bent my system to 15-25 FPS ( some were going through the ground ). - it was online game.

[Jeesus]

i too did notice heavy FPS lost on an airport with static units and bent my system to 15-25 FPS ( some were going through the ground ). - it was online game.

 

Same thing here, rampstart from 37 to 20 fps with 1.2.5. Clean install, tweaked grahics.lua, A-10C module installed only. Tears in my eyes :cry:

[Rhinox]

I spent a day playing with settings, I even reformated drive and installed OS and DCS on clean disk, before checking for reported bugs. I see I am not the only one with this problem. Actually, this was the first thing I noticed: HUGE fps drop after update from 1.2.4 to 1.2.5 when on airport or low-flight. It is the old story over and over again...

 

I said some time ago: I do not want new DCS-modules, planes, weapons, terrains, whatever, I do not want anything new, but what I DO WANT is having a patch/update which does not brings anything new but just fixes all known bugs. Or at least those critical, affecting gameplay (fps-drops, instability, multiplayer, etc.). If only could ED concentrate on this, and nothing else...

 

I know it is not easy, but quite "some" time passed since DCS was released. I think it is time to bring it finally (!) to solid playable level. Look it from our perspective: we all here are loyal long-time customers. We want to get what we payed for. But what we got is just eternal beta-product, far from being stable. Even if you do not call it "beta". The amount of bugs and problems is simply too hight to call it "final version"...

[msalama]

the further we go the more unstable it gets.

 

Not for me though. Every version has by and large been an improvement for me so far, although there're occasional bugs of course. But I dont know - some folks seem to have lots of problems with DCS, whereas I'm one of the lucky ones it seems? Weird...

[TaliG]

Guys this situation just became unacceptable. I can't accept it anymore, the further we go the more unstable it gets.

As a programmer i cannot accept it, this project just go against everything that i learned in a big company with more than 250k employers. You can't just develop a software without considerate stability, you can't just upgrade without preserving stability. Signs of really bad engineering.

On one of our projects we had performance issue, what have we done? simple, we worked on tools to analyse where was the performance issue, spotted and restored the performance with a 25+% gain. It was up to us to provide a software with good performance and not up to the customer to deal with bad performance.

 

This software house act similar to those poor programmer whose blame the user and never its own code (which is the contrary of what most university teach, whenever the user has difficulties those are sign of not enough effort by programmers) in this case they act just like well the game features/effects improves so it gets heavy don't blame us...wrong this is a very bad mentality, typically of bad programmers or bad project engineering.

 

I was working on a dynamic campaign and it already reached a good point, but i will not proceed with the work because there is not a stable environment. Honestly at this stage, missing dynamic campaign are nothing compared to this big stability issue.

 

Now i wonder if this EDGE will solve anything, since it is more about terrain. I really don't think that a big part of the issues is due to the terrain engine (i hope so but i doubt). ED should focus on bringing back stability.

It is obvious that they weren't able to handle all this upgrades/modules without messing the engine and if they don't stop further develops to start focusing on stability things will get worse.

 

To those who will come out saying stop complaining and bla bla bla, i say just SHUT UP. I can't stand it as a programmer no i really cannot, and don't come either with the well instead of criticism you should give solutions (which are harder to come up with), i'd answer....staff change or missing key figures.

If someone like to cheer to a company like a fanboy or a shareholder then good for him, i'm no fanboy for any company and neither a shareholder so i just want to see the final result.....which always get worse.

 

In conclusion, too easy to destroy the game performance at each upgrade/update and come up with "the game is getting heavier due to new features. We are working on performance and stability but not for this update...we are aware but keep patience (after more than a year of bad update which just make the situation worse), don't complain because we already wrote it in the release note".

 

+1000

 

And if EDGE does not change this 10 year bug hunting then I ll have the right to say that we are talking about ''moders'' that try to build skyscrapers over stonehenge ruins.

But I really want to prove myself wrong so mad , because these people hold my hobby in their hands:smilewink:

[Manuster86]

FPS down.

 

Excuse me, I beg you to answer me.

Since I installed the 1.2.5. I accuse the strange stability problems of the game.

In particular, the simulation "stutters" with sudden loads that block temporarily the simulation ... similar problem with the old flaming cliffs and had been largely resolved with the latest versions of DCSWorld. Since I installed the new update we have these stability problems and not only that, when displaying multiple units (especially aircraft) the frame rate drops sharply.

 

I remember that these problems until 1.2.4. I had not and since I did the update I suffered these problems, also changing the graphics settings (even the least of the least) does not change one iota.

I would like to know if you have similar problems and accused in this case to do this to ED.

 

Thank you.

[TaliG]

Excuse me, I beg you to answer me.

Since I installed the 1.2.5. I accuse the strange stability problems of the game.

In particular, the simulation "stutters" with sudden loads that block temporarily the simulation ... similar problem with the old flaming cliffs and had been largely resolved with the latest versions of DCSWorld. Since I installed the new update we have these stability problems and not only that, when displaying multiple units (especially aircraft) the frame rate drops sharply.

 

I remember that these problems until 1.2.4. I had not and since I did the update I suffered these problems, also changing the graphics settings (even the least of the least) does not change one iota.

I would like to know if you have similar problems and accused in this case to do this to ED.

 

Thank you.

 

 

I have temp stutters aswell. For average fps drop I cannot really say something since I never measured what I had before because it was flyable...but the stutters yes...I have them now...I did not have them in 1.2.4

[Raf]

@williang83

Programmer here, same point. Quality (programming quality) just isn't there.

Perhaps it's due to a legacy code and not much can be done than rewriting everything, which they said they're doing (i hope EDGE does). I can imagine how few resources would be left to bufgix from that. Perhaps it's for lack of budget, whatever.

 

Not to say anyone is guilty, I can imagine the economic sustainment for a market like this, but facts are facts.

 

Returning on subject:

I still have stutters.

I did many things and had to boil my stomach trying to fix this (a stutter in a bad moment will become a plane crash... i'm talking about 2 or 3 seconds freezes), mobo configuration, CPU tuning, SSD, anything I've found on the forums and the net since months now. Still get these. Even on singleplayer. Even on a triggerless mission. Even with low graphics settings.

 

(my CPU is a 4.2ghz i7, quad cores, and I have a GTX660)

FPS are good at least.

[msalama]

Excuse me, I beg you to answer me.

 

Who, me? Nope, no problems at all in v1.2.5, apart from cluster munitions going off maybe - haven't tested yet. But yeah, my FPS stays solidly at 30, which is where I have it capped...

[TaliG]

Who, me? Nope, no problems at all in v1.2.5, apart from cluster munitions going off maybe - haven't tested yet. But yeah, my FPS stays solidly at 30, which is where I have it capped...

Average FPS is ok...we have sadden ''hick ups'', it is like the game crushes for 1/4 of a second with no reason, not looking towards a particular place, no dropping bombs, no smoke anywhere.

It is like a loading isue coming from hardrive, but others use SSD so this could not be the matter.

But I ll try a defrag from my part and I ll response back soon if the effect stay or leave.

[msalama]

Right. Well, should've said that no stutters either, so I'm good at least :) But I _am_ using an SSD if that matters...

[Blooze]

In addition to chronic MP mission crashes, during the last 2 MP missions I have flown since 1.2.5 I have noticed the same problem. What I call micro freezes or stuttering. I had never had this problem with any missions in 1.2.4. It seems to be related to TrackIR. I deleted the TrackIR file in the saved games folder and will report back if that has any benefit.

[Raf]

What about tracks recording? Can those be shut off? It's still constant disk access anyway...

I'll try with a RAMDisk too sooner or later, loading everything there.

[xracer]

What kind of systemspecs du you guys have?. Obviously check for any change in background services/processes running since the update. Did you have any perf. inc. config mods before the update and are they still there doing their job? Start with a mid air onshore mission and your plane only and cache scenery by turning view 360 deg. Then fly straight ahead over different scenery at suitable height on autopilot doing nothing with the stick or view. Do you get any unsual micro/macro stutters then? If so probably something in your local software setup excluding DCS. If not add one after the other of the new or changed objects for 1.2.5 into the mission and see what happens. Try some kind of systematic approach to narrow in the problem. Also i know from before that some of the planes are demanding on fps cause of the complex models combined with their individual LOD settings, but i dont recall that i got stutters. Was more the general fps which dropped. I do use a SSD but a defragged generally fast 7200 RPM disk should be fine too. I only have 6 gig mem, but i still always run my system without a swapfile. No problem ever with that.

 

Good luck!

Edited July 27, 2013 by xracer

[PFunk1606688187]

Me and 3 others were playing yesterday on a private server and we noticed ridiculous FPS hiccups. I have the worst hardware and I get the worst stutters, but everyone got them, to the point of it being unplayable.

 

The best hardware among us is well into the respectable range with 12 gigs of ram and a quad core up to something around 4ghz with a good video card.

 

Something is screwy with the performance and it clearly impacts those closer to the minimum specs worst, but everyone seems to be affected, at least those I know.

 

Frankly, if having an SSD is the only way to get smooth gameplay online then thats not right.

 

I just wish we could discuss these problems without people taking the accusing tone. The problem being a problem is enough. You're not gonna "show them" by being a prick about it.

[xracer]

We all need to watch our steps on accusing anyone on any subject as there could definately be misunderstandings involved all the time. Also not all of us are native english writers, so a recap is always important before bitching.

 

On this matter here we just need to get alot of members into the tread and see what their experiences are to get a good foundation. Maybe a reference mission is in the order to test this. This is PRIORITY ONE for any new hotfix/patch if it happens to many and is nothing that can wait for more than a minimum of time in my opinion.

 

Lets see what more members say first.

[xracer]

As a for now small contribution to this i did a test with the most basic fresh DCS installation (1.2.5 incl. refresh of DX and VC++ libs) and using the SU-25T and pretty high graphics settings and flew a tour around different scenery areas. Result so far:

 

Not a single micro or macro stutter to be seen and around 57-60 fps NO VSYNC.

 

Obviously is saw reported things like the buildingtextures popping black for 1/100th of a sec and dont really remember how much 1.2.4 grabs of mem, but now a basic mission grabs around 2.5 gig...eh...so...i guess i soon have to start thinking about getting more mem for my system.

 

Of course this is a unrealistic mission, but could give an indication of the basic environment is not causing stutters...

 

EDIT: Thought I saw a report about the TrackIR could be a factor in the picture, but i used mine on this flight and seems to be smooth as silk.

Edited July 28, 2013 by xracer

[X-man]

All of us in the 51st noticed these issues as well yesterday, including our server. Don't know if it exists in SP, bit MP seems to be affected.

Edited July 28, 2013 by X-man

[PFunk1606688187]

All I know is, 9 months ago I could host missions even with my crummy machine, these days I can barely be a client and manage to not crash into the ground everytime a new aircraft enters my FOV.

[Raf]

I've tried this yesterday and my stutters stopped so far:

 

I've used a RAM disk software (specifically, imdisk http://www.ltr-data.se/opencode.html/#ImDisk but theres a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAM_disk_software) to create a ram disk (let's say F).

Then I've pointed all the TEMP directories of windows (by environment vars) to that disk ("F:\").

Fled for hours yesterdat (even multiplayer) and never had any freeze. Just in the initial cockpit loading but that's normal, i mean no freeze while flying.

 

I also often cycle all the runways with F11, too. So it loads stuff.

 

Seems that DCS makes quite some use of temporary files...

[_Dredd]

I didn't see any problems on 51st server Friday night with 1.2.5 with abrupt pausing or bugs.

There's some stutter but I've always seen this with my rig. Curiously I wonder if there is a vsync issue enabled in game even though I have it turned off. When below 60fps and vsync enabled I see trackir not as smooth and odd behaviour with fps, this is what. See now with vsync off in game and nvidia control panel. maxfps is 120 in graphics.lua

1.2.4 the view was a lot smoother, but in 1.2.5 fps, explosions, and frames seem smoother, and feels like vsync is enabled or some kind of frame rendering tweak has been added.

 

With the stutters are people running in windowed mode or fullscreen? Vsync on or off?

 

I'm only running FC3, A-10C modules on DCS World.

Edited July 28, 2013 by _Dredd

[Raf]

Vsync on, full screen.

But again, so far, I seem to have solved my issue.

[_Dredd]

Just saw this, might have to burn the wallet again.

http://rog.asus.com/254802013/news/asus-rog-launches-raidr-express-pci-express-based-ssd/