Excessive airframe rocking on engine runup?

[Baggy MacDouche]

Sorry if a rehash but I did try to find an existing thread but gave up.

 

What I'm talking about here is when you startup the Huey and the rotor starts to spin up, the airframe begins to rock side-to-side quite a bit. It's very visible both inside and from outside.

 

Not that I know a lot about the real Huey nor have I spent any time around them IRL, but it just seemed odd to me. Then I found a video on youtube(will post link if I find it again) of someone videoing a Huey startup on the ramp from not very far away at all. Close enough to tell that there was almost no visible shake while the rotor spun up. The tail boom did vibrate very slightly a bit until the RPMs got higher.

 

I don't know if this is a bug or a feature. Is it something that is supposed to be fixed? I mentioned this to someone and they seemed to be under the impression that Belsimtek did this on purpose to simulate the lack of "seat of the pants" feeling. I'm not sure why you would need this on startup.

[flyer49]

Hey Macdouche..he..he (love your name)...there are no such thing as perfectly tracked rotor system and when they are really out of tracking, they can destroy an aircraft (I think there is a really cool video somewhere on the forum). I think that DCS is trying to give you a feel for start up (it helps to immerse me personally in the start up procedure) . It is a bit exaggerated in the model but not too distracting. I believe that DCS will do some tweaking before the final is issued and It's possible this will be one of the things that gets fine tuned.

Edited July 20, 2013 by flyer49

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I don't know if this is a bug or a feature. Is it something that is supposed to be fixed? I mentioned this to someone and they seemed to be under the impression that Belsimtek did this on purpose to simulate the lack of "seat of the pants" feeling. I'm not sure why you would need this on startup.

 

The "seat of the pants" simulation we shall call it, is when we have the excessive cockpit vibration when transferring through ETL, all the Huey pilots on here have said it is nothing like that, but because we cannot feel what the heli is doing, they decided to give us that!

[jay43]

Needs toning down some what I think if you read instruments and have a good situational awareness the shakes and vibrations are just not needed or to violent sometimes and very off putting.

ETL vibration can be over come but during landing its like an earth quake in the cockpit and takes some serious concentration and constant controls correction to deal with it which real pilots have to do but without the time warp aggressive vibrations.

[-MadCat-]

To maybe give another view to the entire issue.

Just because we don't have the "seat of the pants feeling" we HAVE to rely on visual feedback for control corrections (yes, I am ignoring FFB users right now).

In my eyes this massive shaking (been confirmed way overdone by several rl pilots by now already) is rather misleading in that process.

I vote for reducing it to a realistical level !

 

"It's overdone on purpose" is no valid reason to me, again my personal opinion.

It wasn't done for the GAU-8 to "feel" the gun when firing, why start with this "compensations for no seat of the pants feeling" now ?

I know the ship shakes and there are vibrations.

 

-> But if the module claims to be the most realistic representation of the UH-1H there is for the pc, please keep the vibrations and shaking to a real level too! <-

 

About the whobble on start up, yes I too think it's overdone.

If I were the engineer in charge, I'd ground that helicopter to get the head balanced again.

 

My personal opinion on the entire shaking story.

MadCat

[Baggy MacDouche]

Thanks for the replies and it confirms my suspicions.

 

IMO, if this is going to be the most realistic simulation of the Huey possible, then it shouldn't have these added effects just to make up for a lack of "seat of your pants" feeling.

 

When it comes to things like this, I am a big fan of making it a option that can be toggled. I understand that some people may like the effect as a visual aid, but I don't think it should be forced on those who prefer a more true to life simulation, despite the lack of the physical feedback.

[The_Pharoah]

sorry, not sure why i never raised this. I've NEVER seen a real heli startup like that. It looks like the rotors and airframe are going to come apart. Seriously. Plus it looks ridiculous.

[Hueyman]

Guys, the fact is, as it is modelled now, the Huey airframe+rotor seems to be one solid single piece...

 

In a real Huey ( not a Huey pilot at all but a Hueyfan for many years, having just flown in one once ), let's take the idea the skids are always firmly on the ground, due to the ship's weight, but the landing gear struts are kinda flexible.

 

During startup ( and shutdown ), when the main rotor goes through a particular RPM range, all seems to wobble inside the ship, folling a blade that seems heavier than the other one... That is just a dynamic effect, and will even happen when the blades are 0,00001g difference ...

 

Anyway, just wanted to say the fuselage was rocking a bit around its skid struts, but would never dance from one skid to another like it does now. I agree with those that said it's ridiculous, I know there are better ways to simulate this.

 

Once again ( and sorry to always take that example but it's the best ) in the Bell 206 for X-Plane, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdVxoaHXog notice how the smooth shakes are done during startup, I think this is the right way.

 

The guy decided to make the whole fuselage section moves a bit around skids, making a very realistic and nice effect of twists/shaking of the whole helicopter, not the entire helicopter, skids inclueded, dancing from one skid to another ..

 

Also, dunno if you can notice on this video, the semi-rigid tilting rotor system is balancing on stop, like the real ones in a calm wind day, that also improve immersion I think, our Huey has always it's rotor well locked 90° to the shaft...

[ophiuchus]

Here are some footages that I found of UH-1 starting up. It seems that ingame shaking is a bit too much ;)

 

 

[TimeKilla]

It shakes a lot more inside than i thought it would so looks like they have that correct its just the rolling left to right vice versa thats over done on startup.

[Fuzzy_bear]

I have found on the odd occasion that the the start-up shake has been so bad that when using trackIR I can't even click switches with the mouse.

[-MadCat-]

Before opening a new bug report or a new thread, I think the following fits best in this topic.

 

Did anyone else notice, that on engine start and runup/slowdown the airframe rocks cw, while the rotor turns ccw ? !

 

Any rocking of this kind is induced by rotor imbalances and as such the airframe should "follow" the imbalance.

Yet it rocks in the opposite direction.

 

I'd appreciate other opinions about this, be it confirmations or telling I have crooked eyes :D

Test it yourself and tell me what you think/see!

 

And btw, the rocking still is way overdone! :music_whistling:

 

Greetings

MadCat

Edited September 19, 2013 by -=MadCat=-

[PeroperoDokkiri]

i wouldn't actually mind having a bit of shaking throught the whole flight.

[ff4life4]

i wouldn't actually mind having a bit of shaking throught the whole flight.

 

If I recall correctly, there is a button you can press to cause that to happen. I believe you have to push Left Shift+K three or four times. Anyone know for sure?

[KaspeR32]

I agree with all of you about the shaking. It's way too much. It's very distracting and have you ever seen it in multiplayer? It looks like the other choppers are going to flip over.

 

Having said that, we'll probably get someone coming in here saying "It's WIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RELAXXXXXX" lol. I find it better to discuss these things BEFORE the final release, but, who am I?

[Skulleader]

Hello fans of the Huey,

 

What I'm talking about here is when you startup the Huey and the rotor starts to spin up, the airframe begins to rock side-to-side quite a bit. It's very visible both inside and from outside.

Close enough to tell that there was almost no visible shake while the rotor spun up. The tail boom did vibrate very slightly a bit until the RPMs got higher.

 

In my eyes this massive shaking (been confirmed way overdone by several rl pilots by now already) is rather misleading in that process.

I vote for reducing it to a realistical level !

About the whobble on start up, yes I too think it's overdone.

If I were the engineer in charge, I'd ground that helicopter to get the head balanced again.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say the fuselage was rocking a bit around its skid struts, but would never dance from one skid to another like it does now. I agree with those that said it's ridiculous, I know there are better ways to simulate this.

 

Yes I thing that you have right, me too I agree with those that said it's very strange all these vibration, our Huey shake too, too much shake...

BTS should reduce these vibration because it's very too overdone.

But this module is always in Beta version then BST can fix this little problem without worry...

 

Best regards. Skull

[Nealius]

I'm not too bothered with all the shaking. The rocking on startup could probably be toned down to a less sea-sickening level, but the vibrations during flight I think should remain. Even if they are unrealistic, we have no way to feel what the aircraft is doing and thus we need a visual representation that will not be easily overlooked in the heat of flying.

[Skulleader]

Hello,

The rocking on startup could probably be toned down to a less sea-sickening level

Yes it's perfect if the shaking are reduced.

 

but the vibrations during flight I think should remain.

With the vibrations in flight BST must stay everything like that, the shaking is a good indicator if our speed is too fast or we meet an aerodynamic's problem.

 

It's not easy to obtain the best...

 

Skull.

[zaelu]

I'd like to see the tail section vibrate and wobble as in the movies. now that we can have wing flex... :) .

[TaliG]

Try to make a startup while you are landed on the grass, this is ridiculous indeed.

If the airframe behaves like a speedboat while startup on a paved surface, then on grass it behaves like a speedboat that hits a 2 meter wave :doh: try it youself

 

EDIT: I can make better wheelies with my motorbike than with the huey at startup on grass ;)

Edited September 19, 2013 by TaliG

[PeroperoDokkiri]

If I recall correctly, there is a button you can press to cause that to happen. I believe you have to push Left Shift+K three or four times. Anyone know for sure?

 

works, thanks!