Need help for startup and basic flight with trimmer

[uboats]

Thanks for the help in my previous post that makes me understand the difference between trimmer of BS1.00 and BS1.02.

 

These days, I tried BS2 without enable the central position trimmer mode.

 

I met a problem that is when I pushed joystick forward and left to make BS fly horizontally, then I pressed the trimmer button. After I released the trimmer button, and next released the joystick (direction: backward and right) (non-force feedback) to its central position, I thought the BS should keep its previous horizontal flight . However, the BS leaned right with a small rising ratio.

 

No matter how quickly I released the joystick to its central position after releasing the trimmer button, the BS can not keep its previous flight status. It seems that joystick going back to its central position impact the flight status.

 

Another issue is cold start up. I followed the training lesson made by BigfootMSR.

But when I start the left engine using APU (strictly follow the instructions), the rpm started to rise at first then after a while, it quickly reduced to 0. However, if I kept on starting the right engine using APU, the rpm is rising to normal value. I do not know why. I never met such problem in BS1.00 or BS1.02

Do I need to wait until the left engine started completely before starting the right engine?

[BigfootMSR]

Can you post a short track of your start up? The APU does not have sufficient power to start both engines at the same time. You need to wait till the left engine RPM gauge is holding steady.

[-MadCat-]

Quick and dirty, as it's already close to sunrise:

 

For the trimmer, I got used to hold the trimmer button, then adjust to the new attitude then release the button and move the stick back to center (no center trimmer mode, caused me too many crashes, fast down on the deck).

When I try to (as it actually is the right way to do it) trim in a single (several) button press(es) instead of holding the button, my chopper bounces too.

Didn't figure it out yet, as holding works very well for me.

Maybe I just do something wrong.

 

As for the engine start up, you need to wait for the start valve light on the left console to go off before you switch the selector to any other position.

So left engine selected, start button, start valve light on, turbine rpm increasing, open cut-off valve at 20%, confirm rotor movement at 25%, at 60-65% start valve light off, proceed with right engine.

 

If you need any more info, either let me know or I'm sure some other folks will be right around the corner to give more in depth advise too very soon.

 

Gn8 :D

MadCat

Edited July 18, 2013 by -=MadCat=-

[uboats]

I do not know why in my Saved Games\DCS\Tracks, there is nothing (Started FC3 and BS2 missions, and quit without finishing the missions. This folder is still empty).

I also made a screenshot, but the picture is completely black (I can get FC3 screenshot by PrintScreen, but BS2 failed).

 

 

I just re-installed DCS without de-activating all modules (installation path is the same as previous installation).

Then I installed all modules, and both FC3 and BS2 can be played directly. Is this way OK? Or even I keep the installation path unchanged, I should de-activate the modules first before reinstallation?

 

 

Thanks

Edited July 18, 2013 by uboats

[Devrim]

UBoats; After finishing mission, you'll see "Save Track" button on screen. You must save it first. Then you may find it in Tracks folder.

[Tone71]

Have you requested ground power?

[uboats]

Have you requested ground power?

 

No, but I solved this problem that I should not start both at the same time

[uboats]

Can you post a short track of your start up? The APU does not have sufficient power to start both engines at the same time. You need to wait till the left engine RPM gauge is holding steady.

 

Thanks, I succeeded. The attached is track. I may have different sequence compared with your tutorial. How would this difference impact the initial of some device, like ADI, etc.?

 

 

Quick and dirty, as it's already close to sunrise:

 

For the trimmer, I got used to hold the trimmer button, then adjust to the new attitude then release the button and move the stick back to center (no center trimmer mode, caused me too many crashes, fast down on the deck).

When I try to (as it actually is the right way to do it) trim in a single (several) button press(es) instead of holding the button, my chopper bounces too.

Didn't figure it out yet, as holding works very well for me.

Maybe I just do something wrong.

 

As for the engine start up, you need to wait for the start valve light on the left console to go off before you switch the selector to any other position.

So left engine selected, start button, start valve light on, turbine rpm increasing, open cut-off valve at 20%, confirm rotor movement at 25%, at 60-65% start valve light off, proceed with right engine.

 

If you need any more info, either let me know or I'm sure some other folks will be right around the corner to give more in depth advise too very soon.

 

Gn8 :D

MadCat

 

I attached the startup miz, I will later upload a trimmer miz

 

Thanks for your help

ka50coldstart.trk

[uboats]

Can you post a short track of your start up? The APU does not have sufficient power to start both engines at the same time. You need to wait till the left engine RPM gauge is holding steady.

 

Quick and dirty, as it's already close to sunrise:

 

For the trimmer, I got used to hold the trimmer button, then adjust to the new attitude then release the button and move the stick back to center (no center trimmer mode, caused me too many crashes, fast down on the deck).

When I try to (as it actually is the right way to do it) trim in a single (several) button press(es) instead of holding the button, my chopper bounces too.

Didn't figure it out yet, as holding works very well for me.

Maybe I just do something wrong.

 

As for the engine start up, you need to wait for the start valve light on the left console to go off before you switch the selector to any other position.

So left engine selected, start button, start valve light on, turbine rpm increasing, open cut-off valve at 20%, confirm rotor movement at 25%, at 60-65% start valve light off, proceed with right engine.

 

If you need any more info, either let me know or I'm sure some other folks will be right around the corner to give more in depth advise too very soon.

 

Gn8 :D

MadCat

 

 

 

attached is my flight track. Need assistance!!!

ka50flight.trk

[BigfootMSR]

Ok, your startup looks fine and you figured out the reason for the engine failure. Some of the steps were out of order, but thats fine. The reason the ADI would not uncage while spinning the knob was because you did not turn on the power to the stand by ADI switch on the right panel. You did figure it out at the end though and turned it on.

 

As far as your flight, It looked good. I noticed you did not seem to trim at all during the flight. At least, I did not hear the trim clicks. I also noticed you turned off all of the autopilot channels. I would turn on the autopilot channels that you need. Bank and yaw are some good ones to have on. For me, I seem to fight against the heading channel but thats what the trim button is for. Every time you trim, it send new data to the autopilot to set the new heading, altitude ect.

 

Just keep practicing but your doing great :)

[uboats]

Ok, your startup looks fine and you figured out the reason for the engine failure. Some of the steps were out of order, but thats fine. The reason the ADI would not uncage while spinning the knob was because you did not turn on the power to the stand by ADI switch on the right panel. You did figure it out at the end though and turned it on.

 

As far as your flight, It looked good. I noticed you did not seem to trim at all during the flight. At least, I did not hear the trim clicks. I also noticed you turned off all of the autopilot channels. I would turn on the autopilot channels that you need. Bank and yaw are some good ones to have on. For me, I seem to fight against the heading channel but thats what the trim button is for. Every time you trim, it send new data to the autopilot to set the new heading, altitude ect.

 

Just keep practicing but your doing great :)

 

Thanks for your recommendation and encouragement.

I generally directly use cycle stick to tune the posture of ka50, and I used trimmer two or three times but not much. I found that when I flight horizontally, and then press the trimmer. After release the trimmer button and joystick, the ka50 would have a small decreasing ratio .... It seems that central trimmer position would be better that it would not be impacted during the release of the joystick after releasing the trimmer button. Am I right?

 

For autopilot, when I was flying BS1, I turned on all. But I flight only a few times. I've no idea about the relationship among the trimmer and the 4 autopilot modes. Im not sure which ones are recommended to turn on. And when should I turn them off. And if I turn them on, how to use them with trimmer.

 

Thanks for your patience

[RglsPhoto]

The Pitch,Roll and Heading channels shoud be turned on all the time,Alititude channel is not necessary all the time fof a flight.

Everytime you change the attitude of the bird, you should retrim it once again.

 

You may reference this link to better understand the trimmer of Black Shark http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_428a.html

 

The explanation of Autopilot on Black Shark http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_429a.html

[-MadCat-]

Sorry for maybe being a little too upfront right now !

 

But the cold start is horribly out of order.

To write down the complete start up now, would take way too long, have a look in the flight manual and work through the checklists.

Learn it the right way the first time round and avoid acquiring bad habbits !

 

About the AP channels, at least pitch roll and heading should be on all the time.

Flying without those channels enabled is considered an emergency procedure and not advised otherwise.

The helicopter will behave way more stable with them enabled as they are able to control/damp the helicopter within 20% control authority.

 

About the trimming, try again with the AP enabled and see if it works any better.

Trim for every change in attitude !

 

Greetings

MadCat

Edited July 19, 2013 by -=MadCat=-

[uboats]

Sorry for maybe being a little too upfront right now !

 

But the cold start is horribly out of order.

To write down the complete start up now, would take way too long, have a look in the flight manual and work through the checklists.

Learn it the right way the first time round and avoid acquiring bad habbits !

 

About the AP channels, at least pitch yaw and heading should be on all the time.

Flying without those channels enabled is considered an emergency procedure and not advised otherwise.

The helicopter will behave way more stable with them enabled as they are able to control/damp the helicopter within 20% control authority.

 

About the trimming, try again with the AP enabled and see if it works any better.

Trim for every change in attitude !

 

Greetings

MadCat

 

Thanks for your comments which are really helpful.

I thought the order may not be strictly followed once the body can be successfully started up. Now I know I'm wrong. I will carefully go through the checklist.

I will practice more about the AP and trimmer. Hope next time, I can share a better track.

[uboats]

The Pitch,Roll and Heading channels shoud be turned on all the time,Alititude channel is not necessary all the time fof a flight.

Everytime you change the attitude of the bird, you should retrim it once again.

 

You may reference this link to better understand the trimmer of Black Shark http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_428a.html

 

The explanation of Autopilot on Black Shark http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_429a.html

 

Thanks for sharing the doc

[-MadCat-]

I have put together a replay doing the complete cold start.

 

I derived this order from the supplied check lists together with additional info from the flight manual and some adjustments of my own.

 

In case anyone wondering, "Guinea Pig" is my test pilot doing all the "dirty work" for me.

He gets all the maiden flights and the flights where "he" is instructed to test new crazy s##t, about which you can tell beforehand that it will end in a fireball.

But no need to worry about him though, he already went to hell and back only with a few burned hairs and the need for a new, dry flight suit.

 

Notes:

 

• At times I waited for certain "triggers" before I continued, when done in "real time" some things do overlap in the procedure.
  
• I skipped the check for Anti-Ice systems (only performed then FAT <5°C)
  
• I skipped the tests for the Gas Generator Governor (engines produce too much power even in idle to not pass the governor threshold put to test mode without the risk of taking off).
  
• I didn't bother with any flight planning in abris or pvi-800.
  
• I didn't cover many switches which are meant to be set up by personal preference (round selector, rate of fire, etc)
  
• Track only covers cold start and ends once all systems are up and I am cleared for taxi.
  
• I ignored some timings (such as 1 minute apu warm-up before engine start, 2 minutes unloaded before shutdown)
  
• The track is rather long with about 25 minutes, in real time the start up can be done in less than 5 minutes.
  
• I couldn't give information like what temperatures not to exceed at start up etc, but tried as good as possible to show with the mouse what to pay attention to.
  
• I don't claim it is 100% correct, but I'm confident it is very close.
  

 

Enjoy, I hope it helps somewhat.

Greetings

MadCat

Ka-50_Complete_Cold_Start.trk

[BigfootMSR]

Thank you MadCat for the track. Its good to learn the proper procedures while you are still learning so you don't create any bad habits. I completely agree. My earlier statement was to the fact that he was able to cover all the major systems and get the bird ready for flight. Either way, keep up the good work :)