Help with Barrel Roll

[Zzenith]

Hey all

 

Trying to achieve a barrel role maneuver but I am not sure about what the correct procedure would be to pull it off.

 

At the moment I am pulling up about 5 - 7 pitch then rolling either to left or right then at 90 roll I push the the stick forward into a slight dive while maintaining the roll. Is this right.

 

When I view this back in tacview I seem to do a barrel roll but the size of the roll doesn't seem that big.. almost seems like a slightly bigger aileron roll.

 

Any help advice on this

 

Cheers

[Justin Case]

I think you are supposed to maintain a positive load (~1g) during the manoeuvre, if you google it maybe you could find more info :)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Hey all

 

Trying to achieve a barrel role maneuver but I am not sure about what the correct procedure would be to pull it off.

 

At the moment I am pulling up about 5 - 7 pitch then rolling either to left or right then at 90 roll I push the the stick forward into a slight dive while maintaining the roll. Is this right.

 

When I view this back in tacview I seem to do a barrel roll but the size of the roll doesn't seem that big.. almost seems like a slightly bigger aileron roll.

 

Any help advice on this

 

Cheers

 

Pulling up to 5 -7 what? Degrees? If so that's not nearly enough. Pitch up wings level to ~45 degrees, then add aileron while maintaining the back pressure.

[PFunk1606688187]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll

 

That would be a good start.

 

Looks like there are some diagrams from Shaw's Fighter Combat in there too.

[JetlinerX]

Are we talking violent stunt pilot barrel roll, or every day leisure barrel roll? I have a video of both. xD

[Brun]

I think you're getting your barrel roll confused with an aileron roll.

 

The aileron roll is started by pitching up enough to roll 360 degrees with neutral elevator and finish level. A slow roll will require greater initial pitch than a faster one.

 

The barrel roll - as Justin Case says - is flown with back pressure on the stick, the amount of which, combined with the aileron input will determine the radius of the roll. Not sure whether it's flown with constant back pressure, or easing off during the inverted bit to counteract gravity.

 

Or something along those lines.

[PFunk1606688187]

Not sure whether it's flown with constant back pressure, or easing off during the inverted bit to counteract gravity.

 

You're supposed to vary the back pressure I'm pretty sure.

 

And he may be confused with the aileron roll too, now that I look at his wording. Bloody Starfox 64 strikes again.

[Davis0079]

just aileron will give you a roll...if you want the corkscrew effect, you need back and side pressure on the stick....the back pressure is what controls how much of a barrel roll you do...less will be more of a clean roll....more will be a big radius barrel roll....in the old prop planes a little rudder can help exaggerate this effect, but can create a wing stall, so be careful...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

just aileron will give you a roll...if you want the corkscrew effect, you need back and side pressure on the stick....the back pressure is what controls how much of a barrel roll you do...less will be more of a clean roll....more will be a big radius barrel roll....in the old prop planes a little rudder can help exaggerate this effect, but can create a wing stall, so be careful...

 

Rudder isn't used to exaggerate anything, simply used to keep the ball centred.

[Davis0079]

the mention of rudder certainly exaggerated your ability to try to correct ppl....

[PFunk1606688187]

the mention of rudder certainly exaggerated your ability to try to correct ppl....

 

:wassat:

[Davis0079]

that was suppose to be a joke...

[Kaiza]

You're supposed to vary the back pressure I'm pretty sure.

 

And he may be confused with the aileron roll too, now that I look at his wording. Bloody Starfox 64 strikes again.

 

Yes the back pressure changes in RL because you hold the stick in place while the speed of the aircaft slows, meaning it takes less force to hold the stick in place. However, unless you have a force feedback stick this won't be applicable in game. Essentially, just like a loop, you pull back on the stick and lock the pitch in place.

 

The imprtant part is that as your nose comes back through the horizon after you pitch, you are wings level inverted, 90 degrees off your start heading, otherwise it will look ugly (not to mention you could also lose a heap of altitude and hit the ground).

 

But yeah, sounds like he is talking about an aileron roll to me too.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Kaiza

[PFunk1606688187]

Aileron rolls are a piece of piss compared to Barrel Rolls. Just pick an airspeed, start your maneuver always from the same speed to keep that variable constant, pitch up X degrees, execute a maximum rate 360' roll to return to wings level attitude, see how much pitch you lost and if you lost any altitude.

 

Increase or decrease the pitch angle and repeat until you exist the maneuver wings level at a 0 climb/descent rate. Evaluate the differences between airspeed, altitude, and how much changes when you execute 2 or 3 consecutive full rolls before stopping (as we often see in airshows).

 

Really, once you get the core of the method down, its all about just doing it over and over til you understand the airframe. Only so much can be told to you.

 

Time in airframe allows me to basically coordinate turns with rudder without even looking at the ball because I remember how much I need for every degree of bank from doing it over and over and over.

 

From practicing these kinds of BFMs I actually ended up setting my Roll curve to 0 because I found any curve tended to degrade the accuracy and speed of my instantaneous roll capability.

[Zzenith]

Thanks for all the replies folks

 

But to clear up a point I can do Aileron rolls without a problem, It was the barrel roll with the "cork screw effect" I was struggling a bit with.

 

When I viewed my tracks and tacview after attempting the maneuver I just felt that the size of the roll I was doing seemed lacking and so posted this in order to get some expert advice on how exactly to do a barrel roll properly.

 

thanks

[Tailspin45]

Think of it as a screwy loop

 

Kaiza has it right. A well execute barrel roll will have your nose 90 off initial heading when you're wings are level inverted.

 

If you think of it as a loop with a heading change (intentional, that is) you'll handle the pull correctly--pull into light buffet on entry, relaxing across the top, then pull hard into the buffet as you go downhill on the recovery. Do it right and your entry and recovery will be at the same altitude on same heading.

 

But it's easy to loose a whole bunch of altitude. If you screw it up don't pull through to recover, it's easy to get over Vne--relax the back pressure use more rudder and roll out. The worst that will happen is you'll end up in a spin (which is why you want plenty of altitude).

 

If your recovery heading is off you probably weren't keeping the ball in the center as you went around.

 

A very useful maneuver in a dogfight if you're overtaking your adversary. Your path is longer and you'll be slow going up hill and it will get you some nose to tail room...a lag roll is essentially barrel roll.

 

Hmmm, on re-read this sounds like a know-it-all blabbing. Just saying what worked for me--and it sure didn't every time.

[Tailspin45]

Think of it as a screwy loop

 

Kaiza has it right. A well execute barrel roll will have your nose 90 off initial heading when you're wings are level inverted.

 

If you think of it as a loop with a heading change (intentional, that is) you'll handle the pull correctly--pull into light buffet on entry, relaxing across the top, then pull hard into the buffet as you go downhill on the recovery. Do it right and your entry and recovery will be at the same altitude on same heading.

 

But it's easy to loose a whole bunch of altitude. If you screw it up don't pull through to recover it's easy to get over Vne--relax the back pressure use more rudder and roll out. The worst that will happen is you'll end up in a spin (which is why you want plenty of altitude).

 

If your recovery heading is off you probably weren't keeping the ball in the center as you went around.

 

A very useful maneuver in a dogfight if you're overtaking your adversary. Your path is longer and you'll be slow going up hell and it will get you some lag...a lag roll is essentially barrel roll.

 

Hmmm, on re-read this sounds like a know-it-all blabbing. Just saying what worked for me--and it sure didn't every time.

[Hamblue]

One of the best places to look up basic maneuvers is the Aces High site since they're based on WWII aircraft. Energy management is something prop planes and slower aircraft (like the A-10) have to deal with.

Just type barrel roll in the search and you'll find bunches of tips.

 

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?board=10.0

[smnwrx]

:thumbup: how its done