How to avoid threats...

[Mike Busutil]

Obviously the best way to avoid a threat is not to be detected in the first place... But that is not always an option :D

 

So what is the best way to avoid a threat after you have been locked and fired on?

 

If I am in a hover and someone takes a shot at me should I throw some flairs and not move?

 

Throw flairs and dive for the ground?

 

Go left?

 

Go right?

 

Auto rotate to loose altitude?

 

What do you recommend as the best defense when fired on? :Thumbup:

Edited July 8, 2013 by Mike Busutil

[Fishbreath]

I don't remember the last time I was engaged by a missile with enough forewarning to do anything about it, so my answer is based on engagement by guns. A hovering target is a stationary target, which is easier to hit, so I get moving fast such that my velocity has a big crossing component relative to the incoming fire, and then I get out of sight by terrain masking or simple low-altitude flying.

 

Against missiles, the same thing probably holds, with the addition of dumping flares—crossing, accelerating targets take more energy for a missile to stay in front of. I guess some missiles aren't that fancy, but most of them seem to fly something like a lead pursuit, which is a constantly-changing course for a target that's speeding up.

[-MadCat-]

After all, you fly a helicopter, so make the terrain work for you.

Use it as cover, safely assess the situation outside of the enemy's range and only then engage.

Concerning about the actual missile evasion, be prepared for it.

Disengage towards closest cover, that can be left or right or just to drop the collective.

Program the dispensers to the direction you expect to be engaged from, so that in case of evasion the active dispenser faces your enemy.

If you are evasive to either side, drop collective and go for the deck and some speed, that will lower your EGT and increases the temperature difference to the flares.

Keep in mind, trees neither provide any cover nor do they break line of sight for the AI.

Rather drop some flares to many, than to end up shot with half your flares left.

Flares can only help with heat seeking missiles, so know what systems you are facing and plan your attack accordingly.

The better you are prepared, the less likely you will get surprised.

For the greater part of me getting shot down, I later realize I just was too overeager, again.

 

MadCat

[Ich666]

If I am in a hover

 

Theres your error... :) As far as Ive experienced it it doesnt matter if youre going left or right as long as you DO SOMETHING. Drop the collective, nose down and constantly dispense flares. This does nothing if youre attacked by a radar guided missile, but the vast majority of threats for a BS uses heat-seeking missiles. Now if you have gained some speed, lost some altitude you can start to maneuver while continuing to fly out of the engangement range of the attacker. Try to imagine how the bad guy sees you and put some firm earth between you and him. If thats impossible, at least maneuver left and right (useful for AAA too), so that youre not as easy a target.

 

And you hopefully wont need any of this, if you have planned your approach to the target area carefully and flown according to the possible threats (->Mission Briefing, for AAA and Manpads just fly high enough, for Radar SAMs you should stick to the terrain). And, last but not least, always keep some speed. If something happens you may need it to get out of trouble quickly.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Ich666

[WildBillKelsoe]

You've answered yourself. But obviously you're new to DCS, so let me jump in and explain some more.

 

if I'm stable in a hover, and get a RWR, I find the nearest elevation, close throttle, stick forward, hard left and right and sandwich the hill between the direction of threat and me.

It may not always be the case. If fired upon, turn the numbers on your flare dispenser to 6 6 6, and then:

 

1- if threat at 12/6 oclock, do hard 90 degree turns to break a facing/pursuing missile lock.

2- if threat at 3/9 oclock, beam it. YOU ALWAYS BEAM threats. Put it on your 6 and get out quickly.

 

3- ask players with you if they spotted shooter and if they could engage it.

4- use mask elevations always. Do not silouette yourself ( be contrasted to background).

 

Helicopters are like infantry, basic drill:

 

- contact, drop and move and check shooter position. Rinse and repeat.

[Suchacz]

If you're sitting in Akula, you can't fight against whole army like Terminator :robot: , you should sneak to your target more like Vasily Zaytsev :gun_sniper:

 

...but as you know, there is no 100% effective tactic against manpads threat. Maybe all-time-360deg situation awareness and loads of flares.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Suchacz

[Davis0079]

.....the Blackshark doesn't have a RWR......when the LWR goes off...someone is rangefinding you....the other light shows when they have launched and are guiding a missile towards you.......

 

 

.....IR missiles have no warning....thats why your AI wingman just starts dropping flares...one at a time...over and over and over....the whole time you ingress...

 

 

....you have no warning when someone gets you on radar.....but your in a helicopter....fly lower then 150 feet and SA-2s and Aim-120s will never lock on to you....radar guided stuff should not be your problem

Edited July 10, 2013 by Davis0079

[XtraChrisP]

Oh, and try to avoid adding a ton of power and breaking right. I've heard that has disastrous consequences...

[Suchacz]

Great article "Guide to Surving MANPADS, AAA, and other nasties" on SimHQforum:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2915432/Guide_to_Surving_MANPADS_AAA_a#Post2915432

 

and another very useful reading:

 

http://realandsimulatedwars.yolasite.com/dcs-black-shark-tactics-primer.php

Edited July 9, 2013 by Suchacz

[BBQ]

To clarify, you mean keep it on your 3/9 when you say "beam", right?

 

 

1- if threat at 12/6 oclock, do hard 90 degree turns to break a facing/pursuing missile lock.

2- if threat at 3/9 oclock, beam it. YOU ALWAYS BEAM threats. Put it on your 6 and get out quickly.

Edited July 9, 2013 by BBQ

[Fishbreath]

I just wish we could get the IR jammer from the Frogfoot on the tail. That would be handy.

[BBQ]

+1 :)

 

Great article "Guide to Surving MANPADS, AAA, and other nasties" on SimHQforum:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2915432/Guide_to_Surving_MANPADS_AAA_a#Post2915432

 

and another very useful reading:

 

http://realandsimulatedwars.yolasite.com/dcs-black-shark-tactics-primer.php

[Suchacz]

I just wish we could get the IR jammer from the Frogfoot on the tail. That would be handy.

Modern helicopters have this IR jammer gadget on the upper side of the airframe, near rotor mast.

 

Apache

 

Hind

[Griffin]

Or just the system already in service with Ka-52.

[Suchacz]

Do you have some aditional info about that? :huh:

[Griffin]

The ball turrets between the MLG and the MWS sensors on the nose and tail.

 

http://russianplanes.net/id111757

 

http://russianplanes.net/id111075

 

[justoc]

One thing to remember;

 

Take no risks. If you see some smoke out of the corner of your eye, and don't have a warning, chances are it is a radar or IR guided missile flying towards you so...don't think, just dive. Back in the day I'd be like

"Hmm...wonder if that was a missile launch...maybe..hmmm...i should probably get moving in that case" and explode

[Suchacz]

The ball turrets between the MLG and the MWS sensors on the nose and tail.

...

Thanks, I didn't know this system :thumbup:

[Lt.Zero]

The ball turrets between the MLG and the MWS sensors on the nose and tail.

 

http://russianplanes.net/id111757

 

http://russianplanes.net/id111075

 

 

Good deadly design!

Edited July 10, 2013 by _letchik_

[roob]

If I am in a hover and someone takes a shot at me should I throw some flairs and not move?

 

Throw flairs and dive for the ground?

 

Go left?

 

Go right?

 

Auto rotate to loose altitude?

 

What do you recommend as the best defense when fired on? :Thumbup:

 

Only you can answer these questions really, as it depends on the situation. I know this has been spoken to death in many games and situations, but, you should always plan your escape in case things go downhill. Not knowing where to go when shit be coming at you is mistake number one. Wherever you fly, ask yourself, what kind of threat can get to me here? Is there any cover nearby? Where are the enemy lines? Where are the friendly lines? Is my altitude matching my needed escape maneuvers?

 

As some has already pointed out, being in a hover is almost always a bad idea. Full rudder into the direction of choice and dive for the ground. Try to mask yourself against your surroundings. Hovering works in DCS because it works (pun intended), but you should generally aim for a more :joystick: approach.

 

If altitude is high enough and threat is in front of you, try a split-S. Hold (or trim repeatedly) trim button, full left/right to inverted, center stick, pull back gently and work that rudder. Since there's no maintenance in the game, I don't know if you have to replace your mast after every time you do this, but it looks badass, you gain a lot of velocity opposite from the threat and it's also really fun :smartass:

Edited July 11, 2013 by roob

[seikdel]

FWIW, I've got the 'emergency autopilot off' mapped to the autopilot disengage paddle on my Hog stick. I figure that, if it's important enough to include on the real HOTAS, it's worth having on my sim setup =)

Edit: To clarify, instead of having to hold the trim button, fight the AP and deal with dampening, just kill the channels and get out of there. Once you've extended and/or evaded, reengage your channels and reassess.

[Davis0079]

flight director mode is not a real function on the real KA-50...iirc.....it is something ED added to make it easier for ppl.....like the starter button on the huey....I have all four channels mapped to my controls with the use of modifier keys so I can turn off and on my alt and heading channels when needed......I dont do any loops and barrel rolls so i've never been in a situation where I needed the pitch and roll disengaged....I believe the auto stabilizing systems works great and i never turn it off to maneuver...but then again I got my trimmer and collective brake mapped so i can press, hold and release them like the real airframe was designed for.....

 

....but then again I use the BS as a standoff weapon...not a dogfighter....all the vids I've seen (which is not alot) of apaches shooting hellfires....they arent doing passes on a target...the are at max range, partially concealed, in a stable hover raining death from far away...this is how i use my attack helo, as a mobile missile platform, even though most of you are about to tell me how wrong I am...

[ff4life4]

flight director mode is not a real function on the real KA-50...iirc.....it is something ED added to make it easier for ppl.....like the starter button on the huey....I have all four channels mapped to my controls with the use of modifier keys so I can turn off and on my alt and heading channels when needed......I dont do any loops and barrel rolls so i've never been in a situation where I needed the pitch and roll disengaged....I believe the auto stabilizing systems works great and i never turn it off to maneuver...but then again I got my trimmer and collective brake mapped so i can press, hold and release them like the real airframe was designed for.....

 

....but then again I use the BS as a standoff weapon...not a dogfighter....all the vids I've seen (which is not alot) of apaches shooting hellfires....they arent doing passes on a target...the are at max range, partially concealed, in a stable hover raining death from far away...this is how i use my attack helo, as a mobile missile platform, even though most of you are about to tell me how wrong I am...

 

Wrong. ED did not add the flight director, it is part of the ka-50.

 

http://army.lv/large-photos/ka-50.14691.jpg

 

You can see the button for it.

[Davis0079]

i stand corrected.....maybe it was something else (obviusly it was)....i thought for sure it was the FD....

 

 

but then again you can see what you think is the starter button on the huey...but its not...its something else

 

 

 

i tried finding the post that lead me to believe the FD was an addon...but not luck....pretty sure it was a conversation from the BS1 v1.01 days.....you are most likely right...it is a real feature

Edited July 12, 2013 by Davis0079

[ff4life4]

But to your credit, I have heard that real Black Shark pilots rarely use the FD.

 

Personally, I use it all the time:music_whistling: