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Rudder sensitivity


Nealius
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Is there any way to tone down the rudder sensitivity within the game? In flight the slightest twist of my joystick results in a huge yaw rate, almost one to two degrees of yaw for every millimeter I twist the stick. I would prefer not to adjust my stick's sensitivity directly because the A-10's rudder is substantially less sensitive than the P-51's and I would have to constantly go back and re-tune my joystick.

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Thanks! I hope it doesn't make taxiing harder than it already is....

 

This is false advice. Make SURE, your stick is back when you're taxiing, so that you can control your tailwheel with the rudder. For tight turns, put it forward and use your brakes.

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This is false advice. Make SURE, your stick is back when you're taxiing, so that you can control your tailwheel with the rudder. For tight turns, put it forward and use your brakes.

 

Spot on, to make taxing easier do not unlock the tail wheel

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Since my pedals don't have working toe brakes, and I have to use the keys instead for brakes, I never--ever--unlock the tail wheel. If I had working toe brakes, I'd bang my head against it until I got the hang of it, but without dual axes bound to toe brakes, no point in ever unlocking the wheel. Even for a sharp turn, I simply lock a brake and throttle up; no need to unlock. I.R.L. this would be hard on the tailwheel, I think, but I.R.L. you'd have nice toe brakes (and I.R.L. they're more effective independently than they are in the sim, regardless; one of the sim's few weak spots is the modelling of differential braking--when you lock one brake in the sim, it acts too much as though you've locked both).


Edited by Echo38
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I set a deadzone at about 20. Movement within that deadzone is nice, but once I go beyond the deadzone the P-51 dutch-rolls like a mofo.

Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @5.0Ghz | RTX3060 12GB | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Quest 2 | Warthog HOTAS | Sahaj 20cm Extension

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Since my pedals don't have working toe brakes, and I have to use the keys instead for brakes, I never--ever--unlock the tail wheel. If I had working toe brakes, I'd bang my head against it until I got the hang of it, but without dual axes bound to toe brakes, no point in ever unlocking the wheel. Even for a sharp turn, I simply lock a brake and throttle up; no need to unlock. I.R.L. this would be hard on the tailwheel, I think, but I.R.L. you'd have nice toe brakes (and I.R.L. they're more effective independently than they are in the sim, regardless; one of the sim's few weak spots is the modelling of differential braking--when you lock one brake in the sim, it acts too much as though you've locked both).

 

Agreed. I take the same approach toward taxiing. Never unlock. I'll wait until the ground crew yells at me for excessive wear on the tailwheel.

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Since my pedals don't have working toe brakes, and I have to use the keys instead for brakes, I never--ever--unlock the tail wheel. If I had working toe brakes, I'd bang my head against it until I got the hang of it, but without dual axes bound to toe brakes, no point in ever unlocking the wheel. Even for a sharp turn, I simply lock a brake and throttle up; no need to unlock. I.R.L. this would be hard on the tailwheel, I think, but I.R.L. you'd have nice toe brakes (and I.R.L. they're more effective independently than they are in the sim, regardless; one of the sim's few weak spots is the modelling of differential braking--when you lock one brake in the sim, it acts too much as though you've locked both).

 

i dont know if i would agree with that...

though i have to admit that so far i only have RL experience in one single type, the DA 20, but there its really close to what i see in the sim.granted, the DA20 is no taildragger and that might have a big inlfuence on it as well, but in this plane, if you push one brake to turn tighter, you really have to give more MP to avoid a stop.its really really close to my sim experience, except that torque seems to be much stronger in RL....constantly pushing hard on right rudder to stay on the taxi line.

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I'll grant that it's possible that the terrible quality of commercial simming/gaming pedals' toe brakes (and/or other factors) could be to blame, but the real aircraft (Cessna 152, 172) that I flew would--at any speed--execute a comparatively dramatic turn with the slightest application of a single wheel brake. You can be at idle and coasting forward at 2 MPH, and locking a single brake would still result in some turn before the aircraft stops.

 

In DCS, however, at low speeds (and even with relatively high power settings for taxiing), locking a single brake generally results in the aircraft stopping with no turn at all. Even disregarding my experiences taxiing real aircraft, simple physics dictates that a taxiing aircraft will turn at least a little, at any speed greater than 0, when a single brake is locked and the other left alone. Now, I haven't taxied a real P-51, of course, but, if anything, the P-51 should be more prone to this turning tendency than the Cessna 152, and not less, because the P-51 has greater mass (and thus more momentum).

 

I also seem to recall seeing real taxiing P-51s do brake turns which can't be replicated in the sim without a much greater application of power--but, I suppose you should disregard this little anecdote, because it's been a while since I've observed real P-51s doing this. At any rate, my experience taxiing real Cessnas, my extensive observations of real warbirds, and a basic understanding of motion physics all indicate to me that the DCS brake physics are considerably off--happily, this is just about the only area of the sim where I notice a significant deviation from reality (barring things such as FoV/zoom and controller feedback, which can't be helped due to our hardware limitations).


Edited by Echo38
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well, i still manage to bring the plane to an unintentional stop, when doing tighter turns while taxiing.then i have to rev up until ~1500rpm so that my katana begins to roll again...once in motion, i reduce power again...but one break is enough to bring the plane to a full stop...

but well, the katana is lighter than a cessna i guess.

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Random Q related to the rudder: when I set trim right 6* the trim tab actually moves to the left. What's the reasoning behind this?

Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @5.0Ghz | RTX3060 12GB | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Quest 2 | Warthog HOTAS | Sahaj 20cm Extension

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Random Q related to the rudder: when I set trim right 6* the trim tab actually moves to the left. What's the reasoning behind this?

 

Exactly as it should, although in the initial release I believe it was wrong... If the trim tab is moved to the left, that means that the force is exerted on the rudder from that side, thus making it deflect to thr right, as it should :-)

 

DCS World is also the only flight simulator where I was able to visually see the effect of the trim tabs on the control surfaces.

 

Set a strong wind while on ground and move the trims. See the control surfaces moving accordingly! UINIQUE!!!

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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well, i still manage to bring the plane to an unintentional stop, when doing tighter turns while taxiing.then i have to rev up until ~1500rpm so that my katana begins to roll again...once in motion, i reduce power again...but one break is enough to bring the plane to a full stop...

but well, the katana is lighter than a cessna i guess.

 

I'm not arguing that a single brake can't bring an aircraft to a stop--of course it can. I'm only pointing out that the aircraft will turn until it stops--a single brake shouldn't ever cause an aircraft to stop without turning at all, the way it does in the sim. The amount of turn depends on the forward speed and power setting when the brake is applied, but there'll always be some turn, as long as there is any forward speed when one brake is applied. Surely this statement you can agree with?


Edited by Echo38
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I'm not arguing that a single brake can't bring an aircraft to a stop--of course it can. I'm only pointing out that the aircraft will turn until it stops--a single brake shouldn't ever cause an aircraft to stop without turning at all, the way it does in the sim. The amount of turn depends on the forward speed and power setting when the brake is applied, but there'll always be some turn, as long as there is any forward speed when one brake is applied. Surely this statement you can agree with?

 

Of course you're absolutely right Echo38 - it's fundamental physics here!!!

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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Exactly as it should, although in the initial release I believe it was wrong... If the trim tab is moved to the left, that means that the force is exerted on the rudder from that side, thus making it deflect to thr right, as it should :-)

 

DCS World is also the only flight simulator where I was able to visually see the effect of the trim tabs on the control surfaces.

 

Set a strong wind while on ground and move the trims. See the control surfaces moving accordingly! UINIQUE!!!

 

 

So the trim tab exerts force from the left side to push the rudder to the right? I always thought of the trim tab as being a miniature flight control in and of itself.

Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @5.0Ghz | RTX3060 12GB | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Quest 2 | Warthog HOTAS | Sahaj 20cm Extension

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So the trim tab exerts force from the left side to push the rudder to the right? I always thought of the trim tab as being a miniature flight control in and of itself.

 

On some aircraft, including some p51d models, there was also the "Reverse rudder trim tab", which does the opposite - "difficults rudder inputs" - as can be observed at

 

I do not know if this reverse rudder trim tab is modeled also in the DCS p51d (?)

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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I'm not arguing that a single brake can't bring an aircraft to a stop--of course it can. I'm only pointing out that the aircraft will turn until it stops--a single brake shouldn't ever cause an aircraft to stop without turning at all, the way it does in the sim. The amount of turn depends on the forward speed and power setting when the brake is applied, but there'll always be some turn, as long as there is any forward speed when one brake is applied. Surely this statement you can agree with?

 

yes absolutely!i agree with that 100%, but in the sim i see the same behaviour...it will turn at least a bit, of course depending on the speed, but it will turn.

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I'm not arguing that a single brake can't bring an aircraft to a stop--of course it can. I'm only pointing out that the aircraft will turn until it stops--a single brake shouldn't ever cause an aircraft to stop without turning at all, the way it does in the sim. The amount of turn depends on the forward speed and power setting when the brake is applied, but there'll always be some turn, as long as there is any forward speed when one brake is applied. Surely this statement you can agree with?

 

THe plane in DCS turns even at low speed and even with tailwheel locked. With unlocked tailwheel it turns as a gyro... are you sure you apply only one brake? I wanted to make a video but the video output is broken now in current version.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I have to agree with Echo38. I was messing around last night (and recorded it) and I did a donut on the ramp by hitting the left wheel brake. I had to maintain 1500~2000 rpm to maintain the turn and as soon as I cut the throttle I slowed substantially and had to hit the throttle again to keep going. If I hit the left or right wheel brake without giving it more power the plane will begin to turn and then stop completely.

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I tested it today--it does turn, technically, whenever a single brake is locked while moving; however, the amount is nearly imperceptible unless the taxi speed is high. When taxiing at normal speeds, and then stomping on one brake, the aircraft only turns perhaps a degree before stopping. I recall, from back when I flew Cessnas, making 90-degree turns while coasting at similar speeds, simply by locking a brake; I also think I recall seeing warbirds likewise make dramatic brake turns while coasting at idle. But, really, at this point, I'm stuck with "I think" because it's been too many years since I've taxied a real aircraft or even watched a real warbird taxi. Anyway, it just doesn't seem match my experience with real aircraft, and whether this is because of hardware differences (right now I'm stuck with keyboard for brakes, although I'm pretty sure I did try binding one of the brakes to my one working toe brake axis), sim error, or other things is unclear.


Edited by Echo38
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In the SNJ-4 I used to fly, with the tail wheel locked (a P-51 tailwheel), the aircraft would definitely turn if one brake is applied and tailwheel is locked even with opposite rudder. There is, after all, six degrees of steering with the tailwheel locked. Apply it hard enough and you'll either scrub the tire off the rim or break the tailwheel steering locking pin. With it unlocked you can spin the bird, ground loop it, with ease. During checkouts I always had new Texan pilots do it on purpose at slow speed so they'd see how strong the tendency is. In DCS it's too tame with stick back, to my feel, and about right with the stick forward and tailwheel unlocked. Blown tailwheel tires seems not to be modeled as a failure, best I can tell.

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