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I was trying to prepare a track that would illustrate my point.

 

Then I saw it.:doh:

 

YES, IT WAS A PILOT ERROR.

 

While the "Auto turn to target" does actually compensate a bit of the recoil, the helo still swings around quite a bit. But normally this is compensated by the gun drive - even without auto turn on.

 

What I did wrong was that I used rudder input to move the reticle to the left or the right/middle when I was doing my experiments. So when I had the reticle near to the left border of the box, I was actually giving rudder input to turn right ... which does not help compensating the recoil but actually added to the recoil. And vice versa, when I had the reticle in the middle, I was at least rudder neutral - or even putting the helo to a left turn. Which in this case explains why I saw reduced effects of the recoil.

 

So, I stand corrected, Kamov's engineers are FLAWLESS! ;P

 

It's not a design problem, but a problem with your perception of the interaction of the systems.

Partly yes, partly no. But for the "yes" part ... this was always my problem with this beast. Took me ages to wrap my head around all the components involved in the AP alone ... as the four-plus-one buttons on the right console are just the very beginning for what comes into play, hehe.

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Partly yes, partly no. But for the "yes" part ... this was always my problem with this beast. Took me ages to wrap my head around all the components involved in the AP alone ... as the four-plus-one buttons on the right console are just the very beginning for what comes into play, hehe.

 

True enough. I suppose, if Kamov had really been thinking about it, they might have had the helo kick in some extra rudder when it's firing the cannon, but this is the helicopter whose fancy, satellite-linked color moving map system can't direct the autopilot. Systems integration beyond the datalink/Shkval/navigation complex is more than I expect from them. :P

Black Shark, Harrier, and Hornet pilot

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Low rate of fire + a touch of left pedal makes the Sharks cannon a sniper rifle.

You can hit troops out to 3.5Km.

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Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

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[code][code][code][code]

[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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All Auto pilots + hover mind!

HP pro Reverb.

Current settings:

Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate.

Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

VR Driver system:

I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and 2080ti graphics card, 32 gigs Ram 3

[code][code][code][code]

[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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For the maximum accuracy fire the gun with zero LOS rate and only single shots. LOS rate means angular movement, ie. if the gun is turning while tracking the target, LOS rate isn't zero. Basically this means you have to wait for the recoil movement to stop before firing the next shot. The servo control logic that keeps the gun pointing where it should will always have some inaccuracy if the there's change in LOS rate. While steady LOS rate would do the same trick as zero LOS rate, in pratice it's hard to achieve because of the small gun constraints.

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  • 3 years later...

Digging up this old thread because I dont see anything current. I dont typically use my cannon simply because I find it to be inaccurate (probably my issue?). I finished up all my ordinance on a TA last night and was going to head back to rearm & refuel. I left some M1 Abrams alone in the field and figured what the heck, I took out the AA in the area, this should be a cake walk! I was at 2 KM from target, nice clean steady hover. I selected API, locked him up and went about wasting much of my rounds, I think 1 AP round hit him, the rest hit all around. I tried shorted bursts etc, what a waste of ammo. I know its gotta be me, but this was a turkey shoot at its best,,, frustrating! OH, Had all 4 Stabilizers on and NOT the FD

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the cannon won't crack abrams anyway.

 

you should record video or tacview though. that doesn't fit my experience at all. even with API i regularly achieve kills against light armor at <3.6~ KM or so. HE is even easier because it has a bit more splash to it.

 

IMO, as long as you haven't detected SAMs there is no reason not to use the cannon. it's effective enough and you're carrying the ammo anyway. it's actually less risky to use than rockets, with a superior range and flexibility. but then, i generally use the KA-50 like an actual gunship instead of a hovering turret, just because it's more fun that way. granted, it's way more dangerous but eh.

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I was not aware that the Armor piercing rounds would NOT crack the Abrams! Hence, part of the problem,,,,

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well, armor piercing pierces armor. but not all armor. just like HE means it's explosive but not necessarily that you can blow up a city with one shell.

 

KA-50 AP-I can crack light/medium armor, but not tanks. save your vikhrs for those and the cannon can handle anything else.

 

the recoil of the cannon / rockets is also much less if you are heading forward at medium+ speed and holding the trimmer.

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Alrighty then! Perhaps I just got used to the A-10C rounds, they should use depleted uranium in all attack platforms :}

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Alrighty then! Perhaps I just got used to the A-10C rounds, they should use depleted uranium in all attack platforms :}

 

DU has less to do with penetration than the length of the round. A-10 fires 30x173mm 395g projectile, and the KA-50 fires a 30x165mm 304g projectile. The A-10 round has nearly 30% more mass at only ~9% less muzzle velocity (1010m/s vs 1100 m/s), meaning it has 20% more momentum and 10% more kinetic energy, but that's not the interesting bit...

 

The interesting bit is that the depth of penetration of a projectile into a target is largely determined by the length of the projectile and the relative mass of the projectile and the target. As a rule of thumb, a projectile will penetrate half its own length into a target of equal density (or its full length into a target half the density). Comparing against RHA (7.84 g/cm3) a 165mm DU (19.1 g/cm) projectile should be expected to penetrate roughly 200mm given a 90-degree impact, whereas the extra 8mm of the GAU-8 would translate into an extra 10mm of penetration given the same conditions. (the GAU-8 real world specs call for 76mm at 300m range and 30-degree slope, which jives pretty well with the numbers i just crunched, yay.)

 

Basically, the longer, heavier round of the GAU-8 will penetrate an extra 10mm, starts with more energy, and will carry more of that energy to the target (same frontal area, 9% less velocity means roughly 18% less drag force acting on a heaver round). This means that it can punch deeper and cause more damaging side-effects like spall, as well as having more ricochet potential once inside, creating higher impact heat, and having more energy left over to punch through things like engines and crew.

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yeah. the KA-50's cannon at anything past 2.2~km is more like a grenade launcher than an actual gun. the trajectory is anything but flat and it probably bleeds off a great deal of it's already inferior KE before reaching the target. i'd bet there's even more of a disparity if you measure energy when arriving at target between GAU/8 and kamov's flexgun.

 

though i've had moderate success in killing T-55 from rear aspect with AP-I if you get unrealistically and dangerously close, probably indicating that DCS models the basics of impact velocity rather than just muzzle velocity.

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Sooooooo,, your saying there's a chance :joystick:

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  • 2 weeks later...

You apply some rudder to counteract the recoil and keep your target within gun movement boundaries.

 

Im not sure you can complain about it being inaccurate. It can destroy what it is supposed to destroy at 3.5 km which is huge for a 30 mm gun. Just dont forget to lase and measure the distance to allow the computer use up to date information.

 

And if your target is moving , then turn on the moving target mode and lase. The computer will calculate an appropriate lead and land shots.


Edited by MaxDamage
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Funny, last night I had the opportunity to attack 3 humvee's with minimal threats, I started at 3 km and had to work myself in to about 1.5 km to actually get a hit on them. I was using very short burst so I would not have to fuss much with the torque. I tried elevations between about 400 down to about 80. Turn on target and moving target both on

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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Funny, last night I had the opportunity to attack 3 humvee's with minimal threats, I started at 3 km and had to work myself in to about 1.5 km to actually get a hit on them. I was using very short burst so I would not have to fuss much with the torque. I tried elevations between about 400 down to about 80. Turn on target and moving target both on

 

Using short bursts - your own mistake. There is no advantage.

 

To hit something at long ranges you need to expend ammo. Dont bother with low rate of fire or short bursts. just go big rate of fire and long bursts while keeping the helicopter stable and let the computer do the rest. The more shots the more chane to hit. If you do short bursts your chance to destroy your target is approx 0.01%


Edited by MaxDamage
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Hmmm,, ok,,, sure seems like a whole lot of wasted ammo to increase your chances of hitting the target, whats the actual ratio I wonder,,, 1 out of 100 probability?

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KA-50 cannon is pretty accurate, if you are having trouble hitting things you should record video because that does not fit my experience at all.

 

max is right though, i generally use long burst and hold the trigger to it's max duration, wait ~.5 seconds or so and then shoot again. cannon is a perfectly effective weapon, and it gets more effective the closer you are (within reason)

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Interesting, I will experiment a bit more, just seems that if I have to run long bursts to say hit an object thats an awful lot of rounds for something considered to be accurate. I dont have alot of experience with the cannon due to my experience with it from 3-2 km out,, seems once I lock up the target,, I dump most of the ammo ineffectively. Im sure its my technique, thanks,

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you have ~500 rounds and you carry the gun always. you may as well load ammo for it.

 

even shooting at near max range you can still kill 4-8 IFVs with the cannon load, which is quite a few. if you get closer you could probably kill 15+ with just the API alone.

 

expending ammo is not a crime, you may as well carry it. it's not weightless but if you choose not to carry it you're carrying a useless cannon as dead weight.

 

by "accurate" i mean "you can kill things at it's max range" you might have to expend ~2 trigger pulls at long burst at ~4km but if you are killing IFVs you may as well use the cannon instead of your vikhrs because the vikhrs are far more deadly to heavy armor.

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I use the slower firing rate in conjuntion with short bursts of 1-2 sec at a time. It seems to be a little more accurate and you use less ammo per target.

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People expecting autocannons to be magical sniper rifles from 2 or 3 km out...

 

Slow rate of fire does work, as it reduces the amount of vibration.

 

But don´t expect balistic miracles, the gun has a set MOA accuracy, which is pretty high (atleast compared to contemporary attack helicopters such as the Apache), but 2-3km is a long ways out for a autocannon...

Get closer.

 

It has a rated "effective range" of 1500m against light armor.

 

Just because you can use it up to 4000m on unarmored targets (by saturation with HE rounds) doesn´t mean you should at all times.


Edited by Chrinik

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GCI: "Control to SEAD: Enemy SAM site 190 for 30, cleared to engage"

Striker: "Copy, say Altitude?"

GCI: "....Deck....it´s a SAM site..."

Striker: "Oh...."

Fighter: "Yeah, those pesky russian build, baloon based SAMs."

 

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I have not seen any advantage of slow rate of fire. I think you guys are imagining things. There is no dispersion advantage when switching to slow rate of fiire. The only thing you are getting is that you need to apply less rudder to counteract the helicopter's tendency to turn while firing the gun.

 

The autotracking will keep the gun on target as long as you keep the target within the gun's turning limits. The dispersion is not dependent on the fire rate.

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I have not seen any advantage of slow rate of fire. I think you guys are imagining things. There is no dispersion advantage when switching to slow rate of fiire. The only thing you are getting is that you need to apply less rudder to counteract the helicopter's tendency to turn while firing the gun.

 

The autotracking will keep the gun on target as long as you keep the target within the gun's turning limits. The dispersion is not dependent on the fire rate.

 

This !! is absolultely incorrect.

 

Maybe the dispertion of the 2A42 itself is the same in both firing modes.

But:

 

-The Targeting system has to adjust, counteract and readjust the Gimbaled mount much

more in Fast RPM mode as in Low RPM mode. This always needs time in which the Gun is

forced to move off its optimal Tracking position by Recoil.

 

-The Recoil system of the Gun Acts much harder in Fast RPM mode which turns the Gun to

Vibrate much more as on Low RPM mode.

 

-The efficiency of the gun drops drastic on Medium to Long range Bursts.

 

If you think we are imagining things here... its just your imagination about us imaginating things... ;)

 

ISE


Edited by Isegrim

"Blyat Naaaaa" - Izlom

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