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Standalone F-15 question


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Hi

 

I'm REALLY intrested in the F-15 in FC3, and was planning on buying FC3 now that the sale is going on , however in the newsletter i got in my e-mail i saw this :

 

"The Next Eagle Dynamics DCS Modules

 

Later this year, we will offer:

A-10A: DCS Flaming Cliffs

Su-25: DCS Flaming Cliffs

F-15C: DCS Flaming Cliffs

Su-27: DCS Flaming Cliffs

This modules will feature:

1- Detailed 3D model (high polygon / high res textures)

2- 6 DOF cockpit

3- AFM

4- Lock On level cockpit systems

$19.99 USD at release "

 

 

I'm a bit confused.

 

1 : Will the F-15c in the "future release" be in ANY way better or improved over the current one? Be it flight model , cockpit , anything at all?

 

2 : Will the future release be one release with all aircraft , or will they be individual? I dont care that much about the other aircraft in FC3.

 

Thank you.

 

PS : I'm sorry if this post is in the wrong part of the forums, not quite sure where i should have put it.

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1- Detailed 3D model (high polygon / high res textures)

2- 6 DOF cockpit

3- AFM

4- Lock On level cockpit systems

New, and for me extremely important. AFM is the advanced flight model, which will upgrade the F-15 and Su-27 to Su-25 level, making them much more enjoyable to fly and fight in.

 

I'm not sure how they will be released as products, but however they are I am getting all the fighters.

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1 : Will the F-15c in the "future release" be in ANY way better or improved over the current one? Be it flight model , cockpit , anything at all?

 

Will benefit from the addition of an AFM (Advanced Flight Model).

 

 

Edit: norrised by the merest whisker :P

 

 

 

2 : Will the future release be one release with all aircraft , or will they be individual?

 

Releases will be module releases, so will be individual.

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Ohh okay , i didnt realise AFM stood for Advanced Flight Model, and since i've only played aircraft with an AFM , i'm affraid not having an AFM will make the gameplay less enjoyable. I guess i'll wait for the individual release , thanks!


Edited by McBlemmen
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These are fighters.. I can imagine to have a realistic flight model for the civilian aircraft (where most time is spent flying and doing nothing but following routes) as the primary aspect of a simulator, but the whole rest? The avionics is almost completely missing, the takeoff procedures are a joke.. so what i'm going to have? A plane that fly realistical.. *but* i'll be in air by pressing a button, and i'll fight the other jets by a "point & click" like it is a star-wars fighter. No thanks, I understand the importance of the flight model, but this is nothing if the rest (that is important as .. if not more than the FM) is not here.

I'll wait for a serious module, if there'll be one available in the future, i'm going to skip these simplified modules made for the "mass".

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Having used the A-10A since LOMAC and having had the A-10C for a while, you're blowing things way out of proportion. You don't take off by pressing a button, and I have no idea where point and click combat comes from. The job of HOTAS and modern fighter controls is to make things easier for the pilot. Acquiring the target is where FC comes fairly close to DCS. The difference in getting Mav's on target with the A-10 A/C is the former lacks alignment and also lacks slaving to the TGP or SPI (which makes the A-10C more point and click than the A).

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And for the people that already purchased flaming cliffs 3? We will need to pay again to have AFM for our game?

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Having used the A-10A since LOMAC

 

The A10A and the A10C are very different planes in the avionics.. I don't even understand how you could comparing the two, maybe you're fooled because of their name?

 

We're talking about the fighters tho... I don't want something that is missing half of the aspect of a simulation, where the most important part of the "fun" is not even shoot at the enemy, but perform a mission (in its entirety) realistically (I want to simulate the real thing, not the top gun movie).

 

And especially looking at the new technology (ie: oculus rift), a clickable cockpit is one of the most important aspects to look at for me (when you start to fly with the A10C you'll forget forever those idiotic key-combos for a more realistic visual feedback).

 

I leave Flaming Cliff.. to the Flaming Cliffs boys... i'll remain with DCS. ;)

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The A10A and the A10C are very different planes in the avionics.. I don't even understand how you could comparing the two, maybe you're fooled because of their name?

 

What's fooling me? One has a TGP. They both have Mav's and CCRP and CCIP. Attacking targets in the A is quite similar to the C. It will probably be this way with the fighters, FC3 avionics give you the same basic procedure as a full DCS module.

 

We're talking about the fighters tho... I don't want something that is missing half of the aspect of a simulation, where the most important part of the "fun" is not even shoot at the enemy, but perform a mission (in its entirety) realistically (I want to simulate the real thing, not the top gun movie).

Well, who does not want that? Unfortunately we need to wait for it, as there is no DCS fighter for a while. In the meantime we can fly FC3.

 

And especially looking at the new technology (ie: oculus rift), a clickable cockpit is one of the most important aspects to look at for me (when you start to fly with the A10C you'll forget forever those idiotic key-combos for a more realistic visual feedback).

I've been flying the A-10 for a while. And Falcon going back further. The clickable cockpit is much better and I'd love to have it. I think that AFM is more important though, at least for me personally. In either case, you can fight as seriously in FC as you can in DCS. I've seen FC pilots try to "point and click" online, and they usually die for it.

 

I leave Flaming Cliff.. to the Flaming Cliffs boys... i'll remain with DCS. ;)

Well, it's not an option if you want a fighter sadly.

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And for the people that already purchased flaming cliffs 3? We will need to pay again to have AFM for our game?
According to a couple of posts I read from ED testers, if you own Flaming Cliffs 3, you will get the AFM automatically at no extra cost.
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According to a couple of posts I read from ED testers, if you own Flaming Cliffs 3, you will get the AFM automatically at no extra cost.

 

Can you provide links to these comments?, I'd like to confirm before i drop $20 on another F-15C.

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According to a couple of posts I read from ED testers, if you own Flaming Cliffs 3, you will get the AFM automatically at no extra cost.

 

Are you sure ? Because I wonder how they will manage AFM and no-AFM aircrafts.... will IA planes use AFM ? Will FC3 airplanes be different to standalone modules XXXX: DCS Flaming Cliffs ?

 

I am not sure about the gap between modules... in FC3, do we already have 1. 2. and 4. ? I mean, exactly the same with no change ?


Edited by galevsky06
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Well, it's not an option if you want a fighter sadly.

 

Isn't this what I said from the start? There's not a complete fighter in DCS, we have FC3 for who wants to fly "half-complete" jets, so I don't see why investing more time to develop more "half-complete" airplanes.. wouldn't be better to give us (finally) a single (i'm not asking zillions, but a single) fighter that is correctly reproduced? Apparently not.. they may not collect enough money from it.. so I try to stay away until a third party comes up with a 100% fighter, hoping it will happens during this decade.

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in FC3, do we already have 1. 2. and 4. ? I mean, exactely the same with no change ?

 

I think so, yeah. But the point of releasing these aircraft individually is for people who don't already own FC3, especially so they can pay less $ for one aircraft if that's all they're interested in. Not to mention this removes the requirement of having the original Lock On installed, etc. etc.

 

So this release is not for us. It's for the folks who don't have FC3. Seems like a good move in my mind. :)

 

Also:

wouldn't be better to give us (finally) a single (i'm not asking zillions, but a single) fighter that is correctly reproduced?

 

Haven't you seen the announcements of the F/A-18C that's in process? Plus Wags had mentioned they hope to eventually take the F-15C and Su-27 to the same DCS standards. I count 3 fighters right there that will be "correctly reproduced". :thumbup:

 

--NoJoe


Edited by NoJoe
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.. so I try to stay away until a third party comes up with a 100% fighter, hoping it will happens during this decade.

Don't wait for 3rd-parties projects..... DCS Su-27, DCS F-15C, and DCS F/A-18 are officially on the go...


Edited by galevsky06
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So this release is not for us. It's for the folks who don't have FC3. Seems like a good move in my mind. :)

--NoJoe

 

With no doubt. If somebody wants them all, FC3 remains a better deal, but if Lock-On licence is a matter, it could be worth to pick up one plane instead.

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...so I don't see why investing more time to develop more "half-complete" airplanes..

 

Well, I don't see any wasted time in FC3 style aircraft development. What you need for DCS style aircraft? Let's divide it into four parts:

 

- Good looking model

- 6DOF cockpit

- AFM

- Code all the avionics, systems, clickable buttons and other gimmicks...

 

Ok. First two are already there. No time wasted, that had to be done. Now they're coding the AFM. Ok. Then FC3 style aircraft gets released while work continues on 4th part, until DCS level aircraft is released.

 

See? There is absolutely no wasted time. Only difference is that they release FC3 style aircraft and make some money from people who will buy it to support additional work, instead of releasing full fidelity sim billion years later with no money earned in the meantime.

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1- There has been no decision in Moscow regarding the availability of the new advanced flight models to the FC3 aircraft. While there is discussion of making this available as an FC3 upgrade at a lower cost than the full module, I can say with confidence that they will not be made available for free given the large time and financial investment. When I am told the final decision on this matter I will post it.

 

Matt

 

Answered.

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Money, money, money

Must be funny

In the DCS World.:music_whistling:

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Q/ What sort of moron would run a business where they spent money developing a product, then gave it away for free ?

A/ A bankrupt moron.

 

If I want upgraded service on my cable TV - I pay extra for it.

If I want a towbar fitted to my car - I pay for it.

If I want a sleepout in the back garden - I pay for it.

If I own a 2011 car, and I want the 2013 model, I have to buy it, they don't give it to me because I'm a previous customer.*

 

That's how businesses work.

 

Why would anyone expect E.D. to spend time and money developing AFM, then give it to previous customers for free, unless it makes future product purchases more likely (by improving DCS.World gameplay - WAFM, dynamic weather, advanced ballistics etc), or because they think E.D. staff are saints supporting their families on charity not wages ?.

 

AFM is a necessary precursor of any future full DCS.F-xx/FA-XXy/MiG-XX/Su-XXy module.

Once it's developed, it makes sense to offer it immediately (OFFER - no one's twisting anyone's arm) to customers that would like to upgrade their existing product.

 

This model seems beneficial to everyone to me - users get to pay for incremental upgrades (or not, as they chose) that take advantage of new technology as it arrives, E.D.'s revenue stream is smoothed out, and E.D. don't have to price new full DCS modules at a level that recouperates all the development costs of all the features from a single module.

 

*(although to tel the truth, I have never tried walking onto a caryard and complaining that I bought last year's model, and the new model has a bigger boot, so I want a new mode for free, cause I've already paid for last year's and I didn't know that if I waited a year I could get the version with the big boot. - Might work - what do you think ?)

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Cheers.

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I like this business model, too. I'm super interested in the AFM for the SU-27, so that will be a day one purchase for me. But I'm not as interested in the Eagle (for whatever reason), so I can pick and choose which to buy and which not to.

 

(though once a DCS-level Eagle comes out I'll be ALL OVER THAT!) ;)

 

It's awesome, we get good enhancements now without having to wait for the entire thing to be done! The best of both worlds. :D

 

--NoJoe

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Don't wait for 3rd-parties projects..... DCS Su-27, DCS F-15C, and DCS F/A-18 are officially on the go...

 

...so is Nevada :)

There is a good chance to see a bunch of 3rd Party models before those get released I think

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Q/ What sort of moron would run a business where they spent money developing a product, then gave it away for free ?

A/ A bankrupt moron.

 

If I want upgraded service on my cable TV - I pay extra for it.

If I want a towbar fitted to my car - I pay for it.

If I want a sleepout in the back garden - I pay for it.

If I own a 2011 car, and I want the 2013 model, I have to buy it, they don't give it to me because I'm a previous customer.*

 

)

 

One question. What the heck is a sleepout?

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