How real?

[LNR212]

BTW, were you in Ovar, Portugal last year?

 

Yes, i've been there, and will be again this year ;)

 

PM me - don't want to get off topic...

 

Well, Take off, hover and land is the hardest part in Helikopterflying.

Yeah, some guys might do a straight and level flight with some practice or with the practice of DCS, but definitely not more.

 

I guess it would look like this:

[26-J39]

I guess it would look like this:

 

Yes because hes hasn't heard of DCS.. :D

[YorZor]

Whenever you find yourself in a cockpit flying irl a certain thing happens. It seems you only have 30% of the brainpower left out of the 100% you had just outside the door.

[Mt5_Roie]

I've talked to our corperate heli pilots about simulator vs real life and they all say that the simulator is a lot more difficult to fly. One reason they say this is because you don't have your body telling you whats going on. There is a lot to be said for the ability to feel the hell rising or dropping that assists you in actually flying the thing.

 

There was also a article I think from Evilboy-8 that he went for a Huey ride and was able to fly it fairly quickly after having worked on this module for DCS.

[xxJohnxx]

Well, as I understood it, EvilBoy-8 had helicopter experience on the Mi-8.

[hansangb]

My guess is that the vast majority of the people with sim experience will crash it just like that video earlier. I flew a Huey simulator once (IFR conditions, no screens to lookout) and when the pilot said, "you've got it" it was over in a few seconds. I'd like to *think* that today, with DCS experience, I could keep it aloft for a few seconds longer! :) Interesting topic though. It's that age old question...after years of flying a PC simulator, if the flight attendant says "is there a pilot on board?" and no one raises their hand, what do you do? Logic dictates that DCS simmers would have a half ass chance of flying it, but I think it would be more like 99% will fail in a helicopter. In a fixed wing, maybe 75% will fail. Just a guess on my part.

[Flagrum]

"Us simmers" might become easier aquainted to handle a fixed wing a/c or even a helo like the Huey waaay easier than, let's say someone who never had any contact to aviation at all.

 

I could imagine, that we could "teach" ourselfs to fly on our own - given that we have enough time and opportunities to do extensive trial&error sessions.

 

But that would be not the case in a sudden zombie outbreak or any other emergency situation. Well, maybe with the help of the ATC who talks us down in an fixed wing a/c, dunno. But not if we had to rush up to the roof, jump into the helo while rotten corpses try to grab us ... :D

 

Maybe years after the outbreak ... when we travel through the waste lands - mad max style - and encounter a perfectly conserved Huey on an abandoned air base ... maybe (one can dream, eh? ;P )

[TimeKilla]

Pre-flight is for sissies, who happen to be pilots. We're talking apocalypse here.

 

Preflight....

 

Rotors on top, check.

 

Skids on the bottom, check.

 

No zombies on board, check.

 

Adjust for minimum smoke and start her up. :P

 

lol was thinking why would we preflight and not just jump in and hope it works.

[Loz]

I really think that a lot of people here are under estimating the fear factor when in the real thing, with the knowledge that if you don't do everything correctly, you could well kill yourself (and anyone else onboard or nearby.)

That will sure make you tighten up severely on the controls.

A quick "when I" story to illustrate my point.

I had been a pilot in the RAF for all of 18 months still training on Helis but now moved on to advanced training on a bigger bird. (A Westland Whirlwind, so that shows how long ago this was)

I was solo and happily doing circuits when on one approach I suddenly felt the Yaw pedals go really loose, just like something had snapped in the control runs, even though I still had full control. So bad was this sensation, that I cut short my sortie and returned to dispersal and shut down. I reported the "fault" to the engineers and after they had fully checked it out they couldn't find anything wrong.

After discussing this with my instructor we came to the conclusion that on this approach, everything was going so well and my confidence / experience was such that I finally stopped pressing both rudder pedals at the same time!! Relaxed, I was now feeling how light the pedal force really was. :music_whistling:

 

A death grip on the controls, leading to over controlling, PIO and subsequent spearing into the ground would almost certainly be the result for a high percentage of guys trying to fly a real helicopter, even with extensive experience on DCS Huey. IMHO

 

(Taking cover now to avoid the flak!!) :pilotfly:

[blkspade]

It makes an incredible amount of sense that sim to RL capability seems plausible. If anything the fidelity of these sims give us a tremendous leg up in possibility of flying any of these craft in real life. When you consider there was a time before simulators when people had to learn to fly whatever aircraft for the first time based solely on theory. Flight simming has provided years muscle memory training, provided you've used some sort of flight stick and/or yoke, and an ability to interpret instruments. All this being non-specific to the huey however, as the sim hasn't been around so long. Chopper piloting may be incur a whole different level of difficulty and complexity, but I'd recon a reasonably high level of crossover between sim and RL fixed wing flight. Once you've got the concept of pitch, roll, and yaw stamped into your memory, and can read the instruments, you gotta know your numbers. Or at least one, stall speed, for what ever craft is sitting there for your escape from the apocalypse.

[cichlidfan]

Training simulators are designed to reinforce procedures and switchology. To really learn the flying part, you need an actual aircraft.

[Suchacz]

To really learn the flying part, you need an actual aircraft.

Yes and no. For example, there are maneuvers, that are too dangerous or hard to be trained in real aircraft. But at the end, you still need R/L experience :smilewink:

Edited June 17, 2013 by Suchacz

[Mt5_Roie]

I don't know...the FPS in real life seems kind of low. No matter how many carrots I eat I can't seem to get it past 30 fps!

[tusler]

it would be easy to find out...

Go to the local airport where they give helicopter flight instruction, explain to the instructor you want to PAY for a ride but you want him to let you try to lift off and hover.

They will be glad to oblige for the price of a lesson.:joystick:

[jimcarrel]

Translating all this to fixed wing.....

I had been flying FSX for several years when my son-in-law traded tractor work for a flight in a Piper Warrior (from a small airport in Oklahoma city, 60 minutes west to another small airport and back)

The generous gentleman with the plane was an instructor.

 

It ended up being a flight where I took off from Okc, flew to the other airport and did the approach. He took the yoke and landed from about 50 ft. My Son in law took off and took us back to OKC. Instructor did that landing also.

 

I've got to tell you, Instructor pointed out the airport we were going to land at (we made the flight at 1800 feet) and I couldn't make it out until about the point where I needed to do a descending left turn toward it.

 

I was tickled pink because with yoke an rudder work I did the most beautiful descending turn that I could ever hope to do. The turn ended with the aircraft perfectly lined up for runway approach.

 

After taxiing to hanger, he asked me how many times I had flown, I had to confess and tell him I've flown FSX for several years. He couldn't believe that was my only flight experience. Guess what, He and his wife regularly fly FSX now. He says it is a bit cheaper to keep up with his basic flight procedures that way.

 

The part of the flight I made, I was so hyped up from the feeling of all the sensory input from real flight as opposed to desktop flying, I completely forgot about trimming, He was busy doing that and working the radio. I felt like an idiot due to that.

Edited June 18, 2013 by jimcarrel

[TimeKilla]

Nice story! :thumbup:

[Zentaos]

This thread is great entertainment :) We all sim because we are waiting for our professional pilot's licenses to come back from the laminator s'...but the zombies don't know that so they will never catch us.

[cichlidfan]

This thread is great entertainment :) We all sim because we are waiting for our professional pilot's licenses to come back from the laminator s'...but the zombies don't know that so they will never catch us.

 

Speak for yourself, I sim because the A-10 I ordered is apparently back-ordered. At least, that's what the guy I met behind a warehouse told me. :D

[outlawal2]

Someone that is not a pilot is not going to get into a Huey no matter how much time they have in DCS and fly it without augering into the ground.. Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread.. Something about having 30% of your brain when flying vs when you got into the cockpit... BELIEVE IT. The sensory overload that occurs is very hard to explain to someone that hasn't experienced it... After about 15 hours of instruction I was very comfortable with cruising around, ascending, descending turns etc... Then the instructor had the idea maybe I should try it with the doors OFF. I figured, hey no problem! Got in the air and was just like I was when I first started.. The noise, the wind etc. just blew my senses away and I was just as green as I was when I started. Got used to doors off as well, but the levels of sensory overload are amazing.. And they are annoying as HELL... Intellectually, you know what the deal is, and you know what you are supposed to do etc.. Then you get in the thing and it is a totally different thing and your brain just doesn't work right. I know it pissed me off more than once! The other thing is you get "used up" pretty quick. About an hour, 2 max when beginner as you are just whipped. Anything beyond that is pretty much wasted time. that is one of the many reasomns it takes so long to get enough flight time to be proficient...

 

With all that said, DCS Huey is AMAZINGLY close to the real thing as far as flight dynamics goes and a resounding YES IT WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER ACTUAL PILOT... The repetition of maneuvers will help reinforce the correct procedures and such and can definitely help... DCS Black Shark with all channels off helped me quite a bit in my bid to master the hover.. (No I have not actually mastered it, but I CAN hover albeit in a large circle..) BS2 helped a lot with that.

 

Nope, sorry folks, but being a DCS Pro does not mean you are going to solo a Huey...

[EchoMasterMind]

I get your point, outlawlal2, but what if you've already rode in a helicopter/airplane before as a passanger, and are used to being torn around in the air?

 

Maybe we all should hitch some rides to prepare our bodies for the inevetable zombie apocalypse?

 

[TimeKilla]

Oh well outlawal2 well have to agree to disagree again.

 

I think this thread is more a little bit of fun rather than something that is likely to happen.

 

See you in the sky fellow survivors! :pilotfly:

[outlawal2]

For what it is worth, my post above is obviously just my take on things, but my opinion comes from experience.. I WAS that guy that had played flight sims of one type or other my entire life and was certain when I went for my intro flight that "It would be tough, but after some acclimation to the real thing I would be able to fly it with few real issues." That was the fiction that was in my mind when I went for my intro flight... Believe me when I say I was dead wrong and my eyes were opened that day for sure!

 

And as for riding in planes / helicopters as a passenger, and if that may help I would guess and say it could help if you have a LOT of experience like a medtech or something that flys often. I believe that most folks would not have enough experience flying in pertinent aircraft to make much of a difference.. In my case, I have flown in airliners, puddle jumpers etc. and these have zero affect as far as preparing you for piloting a helicopter...

I had flown in helicopters 4 times previous to my intro flight and those flights did nothing to prepare me for the real deal.

 

Also, there is more to sensory overload than just the wind, vibration etc.. Your brain is pulled in multiple directions at once and it takes some time to get those things sorted out..

 

This armchir pilot was quite certain that with my vast SIM experience, the real deal would come quickly and fairly easily..

 

NOPE

[skouras]

i agree with outlawal2

don't expect to fly the real thing if you master your sim in your computer

but the sim will give you how the real thing most of the time response to the RL;)

 

however in some cases like a friend of mine was flying PMDG 737NGX for two years

and when he enters the real cockpit simulator he manage to land the aircraft with success

the instructor was amazed

Edited June 19, 2013 by skouras

[159th_Viper]

however in some cases like a friend of mine was flying PMDG 737NGX for two years

and when he enters the real cockpit simulator he manage to land the aircraft with success

the instructor was amazed

 

Reminds me of that FSX virtual pilot that took off, flew and landed a Cessna (I think) successfully, relying only on flight-SIM experience. Granted, he was accompanied by a RL instructor-pilot but he did it all himself with no help from the IP.

 

That's the mistake people make: Never say never :thumbup:

[JoeDiamond]

I agree with Outlaw 100%.

 

I am a check airman for an airline. I regularly fly with pilots on their first flight in the actual aircraft after several weeks of intense training in a multimillion dollar, full motion level D simulator that replicates every aspect of the actual aircraft. Almost all, with the occasional exception, are pretty frazzled on the first few flights by the change in environment from the simulator to the actual aircraft. I have seen more than one case where a pilot simply cannot make the transition and will wash out when they get to the actual aircraft. And we are talking about professional pilots here, not the casual sim user.

 

An experienced DCS user would certainly be able to get a Huey running but an attempt to actually fly it based on DCS experience alone would certainly end with a twisted ball of metal that was once a helicopter.

 

DCS is what we would refer to as a procedures trainer, not a flight simulator. We use them and they are a valuable learning tool but it itself is not enough to get you flying.