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I don't want to harangue you on this

I don't mind, that's what I'm on the forums. If I get bored, I'll just move on.

 

but you just keep throwing positive thinking at me. Information is limited, but by the grace of god and wind tunnels and... something non specific in terms of methodology, we can craft an accurate-ish FM from information thats pretty limited! Meh.

 

Well, where did the data come from that is used in other aircraft FM's? It came from a wind tunnel. Either an actual wind tunnel, a virtual wind tunnel, or the really big wind tunnel outside, or some combination.

 

For the F-35, you've got all the dimensions and shape. You have enough to generate all three components of force for all values of the three Euler angles. This is the easy part of the FM. The less easy part is figuring out the internals (structure and mass allocation) but there are hints here: total weight, landing gear, weapons bay. The hard part is control laws which can be really obscure. I don't know what KI plans to do about this, but the first two alone negate the idea of a sci-fi or Tie Fighter aircraft, at least dynamically.

 

And if any of the specifications above change, they can change in the sim too thanks to updating.

 

Stealth wise, I don't think DCS is good enough to make much of a fuss regarding the subtleties of the RCS details of a particular plane. What we have now seems to be a base RCS value with some multiplier as a function of orientation compared to the radar. What the F-35 then needs is its own base RCS value. I've said before that I'm not a radar guy, but as with aerodynamics, there is a theory behind radar. It's good enough to make predictions and it most likely has its own simple models that can be used for evaluation. And while specific info in this area is hard to come by (though quotes on RCS aren't), there is probably more general research and information that can be used as a guide.

 

How much work the above (and other areas) will entail depends on what info KI has.

 

I don't buy it, and with ED themselves basically contradicting the aimed accuracy of this project, I feel justified in my staunch position of skepticism.

That makes perfect sense, though things can change. For one thing DCS did go from being A-10 level only to multifidelity, so even if the F-35 isn't A-10 level, that doesn't mean it's unfit for DCS World. I'm glad that the restrictions were loosened because it means that much less is off limits, and there's no reason to exclude 5th gen aircraft when everyone is able to choose whether or not to bother with them. I find flying fun, and that is not limited to real aircraft, I'm only limited to realistic aircraft. If I want a general idea of what 5th gen combat is like, I can load up my (for argument's sake) 65% accurate F-35. If I want to go make a historical recreation of air combat I'll take the (for argument's sake) 85% realistic P-51. I don't see how the former harms DCS is anyway.

 

Glad we agree on something, in principle. Unfortunately where we would see the Dart representing 'Subpar' landing, is not one of them.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact is we don't have a finished product to review, so it seems kind of pointless to draw final conclusions. I'm ready to purchase the F-35 but only on the condition that it turns out well. Since I can see a path to that result, I haven't dismissed it.

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I wonder how they will model the engine performance? Would Lockheed give up that sort of information? If they don't then what could they do to get around that?

I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production.

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Wow, this thread has really undergone through several transitions. First it was overly enthusiastic for (IMHO) an unrealistic project plan where any stated concerns were labeled as naysaying, hating or even as having a personal vendetta against the project and people even started forming virtual test squadrons and handing out positions, but now after the KS fundraiser has (expectedly) failed, some supporters seem to be starting to believe the voices saying it was an outright scam!?

 

Yes, opinions are like asses (everybody has one), but (here goes nothing) I certainly don't think it's a scam or anything like that (though there has been a noticeable number of vocal supporters who only joined the forum a few months ago), just that the project seemed to be rather unprepared and not well organized. The stated timelines were imprecise and overly optimistic considering that the project was in its infancy and no real DCS World integration was made. Furthermore, whatever the question was about adding some now features, the answer from Mr. Kinney seem to have been "Yes, sure, we can add that" much too often. Now, that doesn't really seem like something you do in a well-planned project, especially as time constrained as this one so IMHO that just further secured any concerns I had regarding the project's promises on what can be delivered and when.


Edited by Dudikoff

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As long as ED would pre-approve any module release, I've faith in their judgement.

But if the project is not enough documented or has issues concerning avionics, flight model or whatever, I hope ED would warn them/us during their pre-approval.

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is there any chance I can contribute?

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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I'm going to be lobbying hard with a number companies to get involved and develop an F-35 HOTAS stick and throttle that might be available when we release the jet. Any thoughts - good idea or bad? Thanks guys, Eagle

 

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AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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I think most of the real arguments are over, but you could probably get some 11th hour name calling in.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

 

I really like the TM concept of interchangeable sticks. Would love to see more 3rd party sticks for the base, in addition to the FSSB mod.


Edited by Hans-Joachim Marseille
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I think if enough of get together on this we could contact some of these I have found and find out how much they would do a bulk order for or if they could make something compatible with the TMWH base's check out the links.

http://aerotronicsllc.com/index.html

http://www.bugeyetech.com/#

http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense/products?cat=27

 

Although I think they are for military sims could be worth a ask even if they can just do an empty shell for us to put the buttons and switches in and as they all make metal ones I am guessing one of these companies made a job lot for TM.

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I think if enough of get together on this we could contact some of these I have found and find out how much they would do a bulk order for or if they could make something compatible with the TMWH base's check out the links.

http://aerotronicsllc.com/index.html

http://www.bugeyetech.com/#

http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense/products?cat=27

 

Although I think they are for military sims could be worth a ask even if they can just do an empty shell for us to put the buttons and switches in and as they all make metal ones I am guessing one of these companies made a job lot for TM.

 

There is a guy in the Input/Output section doing warthog grips with a 3d

printer.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104154

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imo f35 is only good as a AI aircraft.

 

most of the systems onboard will be highly classified, so I don't see how it will work as a fully flyable?. not unless Lockheed make a deal with the developer to release so much information for the project.

*sigh*

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Just as a note on this, which shouldnt be taken as support to all this fear mongering going on here right now, but just as a point of interest. I wanted to do a 3D model for the JLTV that Lockheed is producing, so for the heck of it I emailed Lockheed and asked if they had any basic 3 view drawings they could share, nothing with any top secret details or anything crazy like that, just basic drawings to be able to make a decent model.

 

I was told no due to competitive reasons. Of course I am just joe blow of the street, I have no relationship with Lockheed at all, but found it interesting with all this hub bub over the F-35 and getting info out of Lockheed.

 

imo f35 is only good as a AI aircraft.

 

most of the systems onboard will be highly classified, so I don't see how it will work as a fully flyable?. not unless Lockheed make a deal with the developer to release so much information for the project.

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find it really funny how some of those on IL2 Stumovik mod section contributed money to some Russian WWII bombers and straight to the guys bank account in Russia..

 

No Kickstarter back then, And the guy pulled it off made the dam plane in one year..

 

 

here is s second project..not from the same guy. I look at SIM HQ I think that's where that one started.

 

found it

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3023346/Re_Payable_project_for_flyable#Post3023346

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3012487/Payable_project_for_flyable_Pe#Post3012487

 

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24281


Edited by Mastiff

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you Know what this reminds me too. Wags ok'ed BelSimtech, and no one demanded proof from him...:thumbup:

 

So those people throwing stones.. Stop posting BS your wasting my time researching the internet....Show proof if your going to spout gibberish..

 

I have not found any.. If Wags had him sign a 3rd party release form. I'm sure they looked him up.. I hope...:pilotfly:

" any failure you meet is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater comeback " WF.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts," Sir Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," WC, GBS.

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Just as a note on this, which shouldnt be taken as support to all this fear mongering going on here right now, but just as a point of interest. I wanted to do a 3D model for the JLTV that Lockheed is producing, so for the heck of it I emailed Lockheed and asked if they had any basic 3 view drawings they could share, nothing with any top secret details or anything crazy like that, just basic drawings to be able to make a decent model.

 

I was told no due to competitive reasons. Of course I am just joe blow of the street, I have no relationship with Lockheed at all, but found it interesting with all this hub bub over the F-35 and getting info out of Lockheed.

 

Most companies will not share their models and/or drawings with anyone. Some will only to the extent that it helps the consumer determine which particular model or product best fits their uses (basic dimensions and capabilities). I doubt Lockheed would give their drawings to anyone who doesn't work for or have a NDA on file.

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Given that their KC campaign did not work out and KI is not seeking any other money from the community, I don't see the harm in sitting back and seeing what they come up with. If it does not meet our standards, it will not be published. Simple. I will reserve judgment for the final product, as should the rest of you. To be making unsubstantiated, public, personal accusation is defamation at this point and it will not be tolerated. Future such instances will result in having posting privileges here revoked for one year.

 

Enough!

 

Stay on topic to the F-35A module, future off topic posts will be removed.


Edited by Wags
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I for one, very hopeful; as I pledged $250.00 for the kick starter and wish them well.. :thumbup:

" any failure you meet is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater comeback " WF.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts," Sir Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," WC, GBS.

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How does the Kickstarter work if the goal isn't reached? If the campaign doesn't make it's goal does the money get reimbursed or do they have the option to make do with what they have?

I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production.

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How does the Kickstarter work if the goal isn't reached? If the campaign doesn't make it's goal does the money get reimbursed or do they have the option to make do with what they have?

 

no the money you pledge never leaves your account.

" any failure you meet is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater comeback " WF.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts," Sir Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," WC, GBS.

"Asus X Maximus X AC WiFi z370 ||i9x9900k||ddr4-32gb PC4000||RTX 3080-10gb||EVGA SN 1300 G2 ||turtle beach elite pro 7.1||Win10x64||TrackIr 4/ir|| ViRpiL,T50cm|MFG CrossWinds||Virpil TCM50x2 Throttle||EVGA RGB z10 / Trqx10|| ReverbG2VR @ 3168x 3092 90hrz

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How does the Kickstarter work if the goal isn't reached? If the campaign doesn't make it's goal does the money get reimbursed or do they have the option to make do with what they have?

 

Money is only pledged, no money changes hands unless the goal is met.

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Wow!

 

I've worked with Dave Kinney, I know him, I trust him, and he is a fellow Marine.

 

I have only learned about the F-35 DCS project recently and while I am confident that there are challenges, I have confidence in Dave and his crew as I have worked with him on a project before.

 

I've been out of the commercial entertainment flight sim business for awhile since Lock On shipped and I have to say, looking at some of the comments on this forum, that nothing really seems to have changed. The majority of flight sim users are decent, respectful, and enthusiastic. They are the ones that make it a pleasure to work hard to produce a product. Do the math and figure out the percentage of the total number of users flying DCS products, or even all combat flight sims, and compare the total to the number of users participating here and on other forums. If you don't have confidence, don't like the decisions being made, don't like the choice of aircraft, whatever...then don't buy it.

 

But, as in most things in life, there are the naysayers, the nitpickers, the critics. You guys are entitled to your opinions, feelings, doubts, whatever. But to accuse someone of being a scam or a liar without any proof is complete horseshit. I know for a fact that Dave Kinney served in the Air Force and then in both the Navy and the Marine Corps. Shame on those of you who accuse him of lying about his service. I understand that some jackass is saying he can't find a record of Dave working on the F-22 or the B-2. Well, no kidding, do you have access to all the personnel records? Besides, he was also a contractor. He is a fellow Marine and, frankly, I trust him more than just about anyone else that hasn't worn the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. Those of you making fraud allegations, let's see your credentials.

 

Many of you "critics" don't know jack about making a flight sim or running a business. Go ahead and share your opinions, but take a look at some of the things you are saying, really.

 

As I was saying to Wags earlier today, there are things I really miss about making commercial flight sims and there are definitely things I don't miss.

 

Had I known about the KS effort earlier I would have put in my money.

 

As it is, the project will continue without the KS funds, great, I wish Dave, his crew, the folks at ED all the very best.

 

I look forward to judging the F-35 DCS product on its merits and will pay cash for my copy.

 

Semper Fidelis,

Carl C. Norman


Edited by Stormin
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There's Some F-35 in DCSW Images here: (Dunno if they are Kinney's)

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