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SA anti aircraft systems and countermeasures


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I'm a noob on this subject but i wanted to post some info about the SAMs in case other new people have curiosity too, since it's something i have been wondering myself, and which counter measures i should use on each case (even though i usually use the ECMS on SEMI) when i see the threat warning on my Radar Warning Receiver (RWR)

 

SA-2: S-75 Dvina. Radio Command guided --> 1 target at a time -- Use chaff

SA-3: S-125 Neva / Pechora. Radio command guided --> 1 target at a time -- Use chaff

SA-5: S-200. Radar guided --> -- Use chaff

SA-6: 2K12 Kub. Radar guided --> 1 target at a time -- Use chaff

SA-8: 9K33 OSA. Radar guided --> 1 target at a time -- Use chaff

Note: there have been unconfirmed reports of other possible versions of the missile with both infra-red and semi-active radar terminal homing seekers. I guess in DCS its still radar.

SA-9: 9K31 Strela-1. infra Red guided --> -- Use flares

SA-10: S-300. Radar guided --> can engage 12 targets simultaneously -- Use chaff

SA-11: 9K37 Buk. Radar --> i think can engage up to 4 targets at a time -- Use chaff

SA-12: S-300V. Radar --> up to 75-100km range. Engage up to 12 targets -- Use chaff

SA-13: 9K35 Strela-10. Optical/IR guided. Low altitude, short range -- Use flares

SA-15:Tor-M1. Radar guided. Engage 2 targets simultaneously -- Use chaff

SA-19: 2K22 Tunguska. Radar guided/Optical guided -- Use flares?/chaff

SA-22: Pantsir-S1. Radar and IR guided. Engage up to 4 targets -- Use flares/chaff

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong about anything and i will gladly change it.

I would love if someone could add some info, advices or tips for us people getting smashed every day because of these annoying tossers, like which one has the longest range, the shortest, fly high, fly low, etc, so we can act accordingly. Maybe something i havent even thought about. Don't know!

Thanks :) and sorry for possible english mistakes.

Also... if someone, by any chance, feels like making a clearer list of all the SAMs and some important characteristics for DCS would be really nice, but i know it's too much asking hehe.

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SA-19: 2K22 Tunguska. Radar guided/Optical guided -- Use flares?/chaff

 

No flares. Because missiles are radar guided (i think its radar command guidance, not semiactive).

 

Only guns can be optically guided.

 

So no flares. Flares are only for missiles, not for guns.

DCS A-10C is only for enthertaiment??? Not for me.

JDAM manual is classyfied??? Not for me.

Lies sounds like a truth??? Not for me.

Knowlege is for kids??? Nope, its for me.

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Actually, IRL flares are indeed the expendable countermeasures employed against the SA-19. Chaff won't do a damn thing once a missile is in the air.

 

The SA-19 is SACLOS, not RADAR guided. Flares are used to confuse the fire control computer, which is tracking the missile with an IR flare in its tail. If the FCC can't determine the location of the missile, it can't send guidance commands.

 

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But aircraft is tracked by radar during engagement. So i called it radar command guided not just radar guided.

 

I mean that fire controll radar is tracking target and sending commands to missile to guide missile onto target.

 

In example SA-2 have almost same guidance method. But in SA-2 missile is tracked by fire controll radar (not by optical systems).

DCS A-10C is only for enthertaiment??? Not for me.

JDAM manual is classyfied??? Not for me.

Lies sounds like a truth??? Not for me.

Knowlege is for kids??? Nope, its for me.

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But aircraft is tracked by radar during engagement. So i called it radar command guided not just radar guided.

 

But that's just it, it isn't. There is no RADAR lock at all, all tracking is optical. The "tracking" RADAR is only used to send commands to the missile.

 

Once the target is located using the search RADAR, the operator(s) cue the turret/optical sights onto target, aquire visually and then fire when in parameters.

 

And as an aside, this also means there is no "lock" warning on the RWR for the SA-19 IRL. It goes from search, straight to launch when the RWR detects a missile guidance signal.

 

I mean that fire controll radar is tracking target and sending commands to missile to guide missile onto target.

 

Nope. The SAM operator is tracking the target visually by holding it in his sights, the fire control system tracks the missile via the IR flare in its tail and steers it to the crosshairs.

 

This is why the SA-19 struggles with high line of sight rate targets.

 

In example SA-2 have almost same guidance method. But in SA-2 missile is tracked by fire controll radar (not by optical systems).

 

Two totally different guidance systems. The SA-19 uses the same type of guidance as many anti-tank missiles, such as the TOW (SACLOS). Whereas the SA-2, and others, use RADAR Command.

 

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I would love if someone could add some info, advices or tips for us people getting smashed every day because of these annoying tossers, like which one has the longest range, the shortest, fly high, fly low, etc, so we can act accordingly. Maybe something i havent even thought about. Don't know!

Well, don't get shot at in the first place, would be my advice to you. Sitting up there at 20,000+ feet hauling a full load of iron into the WEZ of an SA-8 or SA-15 is just asking for those SAM operators to shoot your ass off. You can probably work around the SA-8 and SA-19 with stand-off tactics, but the other newer SAM systems in DCS are all bad news and should be avoided where possible.

 

The biggest threats, I feel, are currently the SA-13 and SA-18, and to a lesser extent, the SA-9. They're all IR homing, and so won't trigger your RWR until they're actually launching, and sometimes not even then. Make copious use of flares when flying below, say, 15,000 feet. Not much else you can do about the MANPADS threat, I guess.

 

You should also keep in mind that many mission makers are fond of ramping up the difficulty to very challenging levels. They'll have you fly in threat environments that the real USAF would work over for weeks before they'd let the A-10s loose.

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Reading up on the range of AA threats: IGLAs have a range of about 10000 ft and SA-9s and 13s of about 11500 ft and Tunguska just under 20000ft.

It seems to me that you should be able to fly above all these things (given they are already at around sea level).

Is this not the case?

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Reading up on the range of AA threats: IGLAs have a range of about 10000 ft and SA-9s and 13s of about 11500 ft and Tunguska just under 20000ft.

It seems to me that you should be able to fly above all these things (given they are already at around sea level).

Is this not the case?

Personally, I would take those numbers with a grain of salt. I've been whacked by those systems at higher altitudes than those, and the Tunguska's SA-19 got me at 22,000 feet once. Admittedly I was flying straight and level and should have defended, but I was so sure I was beyond his reach that I didn't bother. Incidents like that one taught me that if the AI launches on you, you're generally well inside its WEZ.

 

Also, a large part of Georgia is quite elevated, something I didn't entirely appreciate back then. And let's not forget that the A-10 is not an F-16. By that I mean, SAM missiles that are a marginal threat to the F-16 in Falcon, like the SA-9 or SA-13, perform more than adequately to catch the A-10 in DCS. For me, that took some getting used to.


Edited by NoCarrier
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Run like hell!?

 

That's it.

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Actually, IRL flares are indeed the expendable countermeasures employed against the SA-19. Chaff won't do a damn thing once a missile is in the air.

 

The SA-19 is SACLOS, not RADAR guided. Flares are used to confuse the fire control computer, which is tracking the missile with an IR flare in its tail. If the FCC can't determine the location of the missile, it can't send guidance commands.

hi

is the missile location process simulated for sa-19, so if i release chaff before firing and chaff+flare after firing , can i "confuse" the sa-19 saclos process

best regards

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Good to know.

 

What kind of evasive manouevers are most effective when being tracked by incoming missile?

head on? turn 90? Run like hell!?

 

That's it.

Yeah, pretty much.

 

Countermeasures, lots of countermeasures, Split-S to pick up airspeed and extend, immediately. Hit the deck for some terrain masking if you can, but a kinematic defeat of the missile is the main goal here (i.e., outrunning it).

 

Some people apparently have good luck with actually break-turning into the missile and post Youtube videos on how to do it, but every time I look at these videos they're always doing this in broad daylight, with a perfect situational awareness, in (near) clean A-10s with plenty of smash.

 

Never say never, I guess, and maybe some of the A-10 veterans around here are that good, but I haven't been able to reliably defeat a missile that way yet. Train like you fight, and all that...

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Good to know.

 

What kind of evasive manouevers are most effective when being tracked by incoming missile?

head on? turn 90? Run like hell!?

 

Assuming you can't simply dip back into terrain masking.....

 

SA-19, beam and maintain high LOS rate, you'll exceed the LOS rate capability of the SACLOS guidance provided you're not too slow. The system is actually easier to defeat the closer you are to the launch vehicle. Although be careful not to get too close, those 30mm cannon bite.

 

The general ROT for RADAR command and homing systems is to beam the guidance RADAR and deploy chaff once on the beam. Get a visual on the incoming missile to confirm if it's tracking or has bitten on the chaff, if it's still on you maintain the beam until about 3-4 seconds before impact, at that point dispense more chaff and perform an orthogonal roll (pull hard back on the stick and roll to keep the missile on your 3/9 line above the wingtip). Hopefully you'll exceed the missiles ability to turn and it'll pass below/behind you without fusing. But remember that it's a last ditch manoeuvre, and not the first thing you should be trying.

 

Unless you're dealing with LORAD systems such as patriot or SA-10/12 launching while you're at the edge of their MEZ, dragging won't help in the slightest, especially in the Hog as you simply don't have the energy.

 

There are more specific techniques for individual systems, but even the likes of the SA-15 can be easily defeated with a well executed beam.

 

Of course if you're flying offline or without a good wingman, you best expedite your egress from the threat systems MEZ and/or terrain mask quickly, especially if you've had to employ an orthogonal roll as you won't have the E to defeat a second missile. And until we have ECM modelled in DCS you don't have that option to employ against front and rear quarter threat systems.

 

Of course the best defence of all is to not be fired on in the first place.


Edited by Eddie

 

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3/9 line.

 

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