Replacement for real cockpits - occulus rift

[jctrnacty]

I think this small toy could save us a lot of money and space before building real cockpits :-)

 

http://www.oculusvr.com/

 

But there is still a few problems left to solve : latency

z - axis

resolution

control of your virtual cockpit

 

this headset still doesnt support z axis maybe in future versions, resolution of monitors is 1280x800 and you need to use mouse to control the knobs in the cockpit, maybe voice control could solve this problem.

 

But after watching what this headset can do i think that flight sims have a bright future to be really inside the game.

[cichlidfan]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93477

[acino]

I think this small toy could save us a lot of money and space before building real cockpits :-)

 

http://www.oculusvr.com/

 

But there is still a few problems left to solve : latency

z - axis

resolution

control of your virtual cockpit

 

this headset still doesnt support z axis maybe in future versions, resolution of monitors is 1280x800 and you need to use mouse to control the knobs in the cockpit, maybe voice control could solve this problem.

 

But after watching what this headset can do i think that flight sims have a bright future to be really inside the game.

 

The specs you posted are for the developer kit. The customer's version is known to have resolution 1920x1080, improved latency and pretty much everything else.

 

By the way, there is already a lengthy thread about Oculus on this forum. :)

[JG14_Smil]

Apples and Oranges. No VR for me, thanks.

[BHawthorne]

There is no replacement for simpits. Simpits are the replacement for virtual cockpits.

 

Many of us here are getting Rifts but we also realize that human interface and tactile feedback from using real side panels and real main instrument panels with projection outside visuals are preferable to a VR experience. At this time the best answer to situational awareness is what Flim is doing with his Cube build. It has a significantly wider FOV than the Rift. The Rift is only 110 diagnal FOV while a Cube projection setup can be as wide a FOV as your eyes allow.

 

Yes, the Rift is cool and many of us are getting one, but no it's not a replacement for simpits.

Edited March 17, 2013 by BHawthorne

[Burner_Tbird2]

Let's not forget that what Flim is building costs, at minimum, 10x as much as a Rift.

 

What I envision is taking all that left over money from buying a Rift and investing in hand tracking and a bare-bones simpit. No realistic panels or displays, just all the switches in the right place mounted in cheap MDF.

 

Imagine playing a game like A-10C or BMS where you have the Rift on but can see your hands in game and when you reach out all the switches are actually under your fingertips.

 

Now that HAS to be cheaper than a replica F-16 or A-10 pit plus five LCD projectors. Though, I'm not factoring in the headache of programming DCS A-10C or BMS to integrate hand visuals.

 

Also if the hand tracking were precise enough the physical switches wouldn't even need to be wired, hand tracking and finger movements could trigger the in game events.

 

A pipe dream at the moment, but that's where I'd like to see the technology go.

[hegykc]

There is no replacement for simpits. Simpits are the replacement for virtual cockpits.

 

^^ this ^^

 

But it sure would be nice to have complete 360 view

[Cowboy10uk]

There is no replacement for simpits. Simpits are the replacement for virtual cockpits.

 

Many of us here are getting Rifts but we also realize that human interface and tactile feedback from using real side panels and real main instrument panels with projection outside visuals are preferable to a VR experience. At this time the best answer to situational awareness is what Flim is doing with his Cube build. It has a significantly wider FOV than the Rift. The Rift is only 110 diagnal FOV while a Cube projection setup can be as wide a FOV as your eyes allow.

 

Yes, the Rift is cool and many of us are getting one, but no it's not a replacement for simpits.

 

Can't argue with this reply, sadly as I don't. Have the room or money for a Cube, believe me I would do it if I could. My plan is to go the VR route, purely for the space saved. I have a Leap motion turning up in a few months, which I hope when combined with the Occulus will allow my hands to be seen in game. A simple wooden board to give me a tactile feel when reaching out in front of me and my warthog for main controls.

 

While it may not look pretty, I'm hoping that the effect in sim will be rather good. It's gonna be one long wait though as I'm waiting for the consumer version of the rift, rather than the developers kit.

 

Can't wait to see any info on how it works from those who have the developers though.

 

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited March 24, 2013 by Cowboy10uk

[BHawthorne]

Also, to put some context to things, a lot of us around here are tinkerers and machine shop type people. The Rift doesn't address those type of hands on people at all. They like to build stuff.

[Cowboy10uk]

Also, to put some context to things, a lot of us around here are tinkerers and machine shop type people. The Rift doesn't address those type of hands on people at all. They like to build stuff.

 

 

Not knocking that at all mate, and you're right, this certainly couldn't and shouldn't replace that. However for those of us who don't have the room for a full size cockpit, this certainly has the potential to be a cockpit replacement. If it does what all the bumf says it does, the potential for us simmers is huge.

 

I will certainly be following the feedback from those with dev kits very closely, and will certainly be very keen to hear if it gets working with DCS and what the experience is.

 

Again though I do have to agree that a full cockpit with real switches would be best for tactile feel and touch, I think you would be hard placed to beat the visual and immersion of the Rift, unless you build something like the Cube.

 

Cowboy10uk

[BHawthorne]

I'll know in about 2 weeks I guess. I'm one of the first in line for the dev kit. Using it to help develop Nthusim HMD (which will enable Rift use on DCS World, FSX and X-Plane).

[Deadman]

Sounds like an end to the A-10C home cockpit replica:cry:

[KLR Rico]

Not at all, IMHO.

 

Two different means to an end, but some people want a physical environment, and some people are going to want the virtual environment.

 

I think that flipping physical switches is still going to be a popular option for many people.

[Deadman]

Hopefully but the low cost and versatility of the Rift make it a very attractive offer for most. That and I have not seen a real demand for replica parts.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Deadman

[DEChengst]

I think the Rift could actually be the perfect supplement for having a real cockpit. The way I imagine this to work is to build a cockpit that has every switch placed with mm accuracy. On top of this is mm accurate full body tracking. The idea is to have your physical body merge with your virtual body in DCS. This would allow you to merge the physical feedback your body gives with the visual feedback the Rift gives you. When you touch a physical switch you also touch the same switch in DCS.

 

I guess all depends on the Rift becoming popular enough to allow them to bring out a new generation every 12-24 months like what happened with the GPU. Every generation would bring an improvement in resolution, refresh rate, FOV and tracking. One thing I'm a certain of: In 10 to 15 years computers will be powerful enough to do it a level where you hardly can distinguish reality from home simulation.

[metalnwood]

I would use this instead of a real pit when the following conditions are met.

 

There is some sort of hand tracking so that I can reasonably access virtual buttons without hassle. I believe this will happen fairly soon with the introduction of this technology.

 

Secondly the resolution is high enough that I can rely on the instrument panels, mfd's etc. Who knows, this may happen with the first commercial release and a higher definition panel.

 

Basically, if I feel more immersed then I would give up a replica cocpit. This has the real potential to immerse you in flight.

 

The obvious benefits are the lower powered pc required to drive a single high res panel. This will keep the FPS up. Obviously the $$ saved and the space saved. Something I have had on the back burner is a motion platform. As my ambitions get larger with cockpit building the requirements for a motion platform to carry my sim grow a lot.

 

If I only needed to move a basic seat that carried nothing but the controls then a real 3dof or greater motion platform becomes a very achievable thing while taking up a small amount of space.

 

Building stuff is a big part of my past time. I am a real workshop tinkerer but I have plenty of other projects around to consume my time :)

[Gadroc]

Wow... a motion platform plus this would be incredible. I imagine the platform would have to be dead on with the immersive visuals or else it will feel weird. Also you would have to figure out how to compensate for platform movement in the motion tracking.

 

I'm looking forward to getting the dev kit to try out a few things.

[metalnwood]

Thats a very good point that would probably be hard to get around. If the sensor they use is as good as they say then even if you only had 150mm (6") of heave and other movement then it might look like you are having a very rough ride when you find yourself being thrown all around the virtual cockpit as the motion platform slowly moves you about :)

 

Still, I am sure that like trackir is configurable that there will not be one fit for all games and hopefully this behavior will be able to be configured out.

 

A simple platform only carrying the weight of the user and a couple of other things would be within what a lot of people on this board are capable of. With the benefit of a totally enclosed view the platform could really fool your senses much more than an open one.

[DEChengst]

First thing that pops up in my mind to compensate for the platform movement is to have it communicate it's movement to the Rift API so it can subtract that from what the Rift sensors are seeing.

[BHawthorne]

First thing that pops up in my mind to compensate for the platform movement is to have it communicate it's movement to the Rift API so it can subtract that from what the Rift sensors are seeing.

 

At issue though is the Rift is all about low latency. I would imagine a motion platform would not be giving the same low latency 1000hz feedback data the Rift does. It would probably make you feel like you're moving around drunk.

[DEChengst]

I'm getting confused here. Are you guys talking about the motion platform not being able to create fast enough movement or about the platform not reporting it's position fast enough? If it's the latter I don't see a real problem. If the Rift becomes a success I count on all kinds of peripherals being sold with the Rift in mind.

 

I'm quite sceptical about the Rift though. I do think the technology is ready to build a great VR helmet but I can't imagine that playing an FPS with the Rift and using a keyboard to move about will ever feel natural. The thing is that the better the Rift gets the easier it gets to break immersion. Imagine in 15 years time using a 8k, 120Hz and 270 degrees FOV Rift. Putting the thing on your head will feel like really being there, but if the rest isn't perfect your body will tell you something is wrong. I fear that the Rift will feel awesome at first to be followed by a deep plunge into the uncanny valley. Question is: Can the Rift survive the valley?

[agrasyuk]

Imagine in 15 years time using a 8k, 120Hz and 270 degrees FOV Rift.

 

270 degree of FOV is not needed because the helmet is in fixed position and humans barely have 180...

[metalnwood]

The only thing about the rift that I have had a couple of thoughts about is with racing.

 

Someone pointed out some for some things just on your periphery that you might just turn your eyes at rather than move your head towards wont be possible with the rift.

 

I am sure you would get accustomed to doing it and it will feel natural although at first thought sounds a bit of a compromise that you dont have to do with triple screens.

 

Not enough by a long shot to detract me though.

 

DECHengst, it is the positional feedback coming from the motion platform that BHawthorne suggests would not be in sync with the rift.

 

He is correct to the extent that today there isn't really any need to get that positional feedback but there is not reason why it could not be gained, especially in a diy solution.

 

If the rift takes off I have no doubt that things like small/personal motion platforms and tactile transducers used like simvibe and intellivibe will get a new lease of life.

[DEChengst]

270 degree of FOV is not needed because the helmet is in fixed position and humans barely have 180...

 

The 270 degree FOV is what I estimate you need to allow for full eye deflection and still not see the edges of the display.

 

If the rift takes off I have no doubt that things like small/personal motion platforms will get a new lease of life.

 

If you're doing a flight or race simulator with the Rift I think a motion platform is absolutely necessary. A lot of people having played the racing demo with the Rift are complaining about motion sickness. As far as I understand motion sickness is caused by your visual senses and your inner ear disagreeing about how you're moving. In the case of the Rift your visual senses say you're moving/accelerating but your inner ear says not. A motion platform would allow your inner ear to experience these cues, restoring the immersion. There have been VR helmets in the past and it teaches us good VR is really hard.

[CyBerkut]

Compensating the Rift Head Tracking for motion platform movement would most likely be a matter of using a second motion sensor of the same type as used by the Rift... but attached to the seat or platform. Mount a sensor on the back of the seat at about neck height, and subtract it's output from the Rift's motion sensor output... and you should have a pretty close representation of proper head tracking.

 

Combining a motion platform with the rift would certainly be an interesting project. The algorithms usually used to fake out the human brain on motion platforms might need some significant tweaking.