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The F10 cheat - or is it?


Taproot
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Hey guys.

 

I played with some friends of mine and we where having a hard time finding those enemies. None wanted to turn to the F10 for map clues since it was cheating.

 

Fair enough..

 

But that got me thinking. We "cheat" all the time.

 

1: You drop that bomb, but when the TGP loos track of the target you press F6 so you can see the bomb hit. While you are at it you take a look around, cause maybe there is some armor you have missed?

 

2: Or you F2 to look for that missile launch.

 

These two are comparable to the F10, so maybe not so many use it.

 

That's fine.

 

But what about track ir?

 

1: Those stupid pixels look so small on the TGP screen. You lean over and get a close look. There, much better.

 

Trie to strap yourselfe in a 4 point safety belt before you do that...

 

2: On the gun run you again lean over to get as close to the hud as possible. And then?

 

zoom

 

zoom

 

zoom

 

zoom.

 

Ahhhh. Perfecto!

 

 

 

Any other way we cheat?

 

What "cheat" do you think is ok?

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your f-10 view can be server inforced as also with external views etc.

 

generaly speaking if all players are have the option of useing features of the game it is not cheating.

 

cheating would rather be defined as gaining unfair advantage over other person by potential use of exploits , glitches and some 3rd party files

 

i think it would be better to use the term, 'unrealistic game features' :smilewink: in the context of what your saying

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I'm not doing anything of the mentionned above, for the reason i consider it as a simulation killer. For TGP i anyway use a home cockpit with dedicated screen so i can't lean to zoom on it.

 

I do agree with what i read above - Some limitations are neccessary at server level. I don't really mind about zoom but the F10 "ultimate sensor".

 

Actually, i you just need any aircraft over the FEBA to have everything on your F10 key. I don't use F10 while flying (unrealistic)- but i do while playing CA.

 

For aircrafts, I wish that we could get a hardcore mode, like a "alternate F10", where it would display units icons at platoon or section level, instead of accurately pinpoint everyone. Same goes for ennemis, depending on level of detection, only show an icon over the general area, not "centimeter accurate" - combat mission game is quite good with this.

And that.... only on the ground of course.... :music_whistling:

 

For CA - That would be awesome to get limited data on OPFOR. Actually if a fighters goes Mach 2, high in the sky above the FEBA, we get everything on opponents, nearly up to his credit card number. IRL, i'm not sure the guy can even talk to someone in an armor section.

 

otherwise it's a feature. One that you can choose to use or not.
F10 is needed for CA. Imagine a battle between two CA players, then a10 player jump in server. View being server controlled......The general can do whatever he wants to hide his tank, the A10 player will always find them with F10. I don't call this a feature bug a big big problem for CA players.
Edited by Darkwolf
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Real pilots can't zoom in on the HUD, but real pilots aren't limited to 1680x1050 pixels like I am. Sometimes you need unrealistic advantages to compensate for unrealistic disadvantages. Swings and roundabouts.

 

F2 to look for missile launches is a bit too far for me, though.

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I'm with USMC Trev. I think we've got Suite2 software loaded in our A10C, but IRL they're up to Suite7a. They can get real time vid feeds and a full SADL picture right on their MFDs. You can be sure that if you're doing a planned run (or even CAS) they're going to have multiple elint and humint assets to feed situational awareness.. information is one thing we do very well. The biggest problem facing C4ISR these days is managing the huge amount of metadata down and publishing it only to those who need it for 'information declutter'. The aegis cruiser is one good example. It's a floating computer that spends part of it's processing time doing predictive modeling of the entire theater to determine where the enemy will be and what they'll be doing an hour from now... down to the individual unit.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't use the F10 key to find my target every time, but if I'm closing a mission where I had to kill 25 targets and one has a kookie AI that caused it to go in a building, I don't feel a bit bad about using F10 to get it's coords to be fed in manually. This is actually much harder to resolve than it would be in real life. We're at a disadvantage by not having all the gear, intel, support, and last but not least 'gravity and inner ear' to help us fly our Hawgs.

 

I'm all about realism though! Here's a few tips to increase your immersion:

1. Use a powerful bass speaker between your pedals and the wall so you can feel the aircraft. (I use a 1kwatt amp connected to the optical audio on my sound card)

2. Download RedFlag coms audio recordings and play low in the background for chatter.

3. Have your wife stand behind you and donkey punch you every time your hawg takes a hit (won't she be excited to return the favor for once?!)

 

Regards,

StrongHarm

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I never zoom in on the HUD when going guns but I do use it to look around at the ground to simulate using binoculars as I have heard real life A-10 pilots do.

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Its a good debate.

 

I am used to flying online without External View and F10 view is enforced to "Map Only".

 

I fly with online pilots who look out for targets, BDA on team-mates targets and together we collate as much SA as we can as a Group for mission objective completion.

 

We rely heavily on TeamSpeak3 and TARS for comms and sharing of information.

 

As for zoom, everybody can have access to it as it cannot be enforced in the mission.

 

We are used to this system and it works pretty well.

 

I will add, we solely fly the A10-C and my comments are directed towards this module only.

 

Just my 2 cents.


Edited by JujuMan

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If you have normal eyesight then your visual acuity is much sharper IRL than when looking at a limited resolution, limited LOD computerized representation of the world.

 

Consider then that a fighter pilot is a young, highly fit individual that has been screened to have great vision on both eyes and most likely has not spent 15 years in front of a computer screen ruining his eyesight and becoming near-sighted on one or both eyes. Zooming in on a gun run is not cheating :)

 

The F10 map can (as was mentioned several times) be seen as a simulation of battlefield intel gathered by a myriad of sources and relayed to the pilot. In my opinion, this is more realistic than the notion that a flight of A-10s would be sent in blind over hostile territory to find targets on their own.

 

As for external views, they are unrealistic but you could even see those as a simulation of communicating with fellow pilots/ ground fources/ AWACS/ etc. Use F6 to follow your bomb and see if it hit? That could simulate a radio call from ground forces saying 'Good hit on target!'

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Well , I don't feel its a cheat if you can view your side . As tactical commanders now have the ability to view the battle arena live from sat views .

 

Also , would it be possible to view enemy units that in line of sight with friendly units , as this also is not unrealistic .

 

Or enemy units that being engaged by friendly units ..... also not unrealistic .

 

Another point from a person im my squad who designs very good missions is this : It also depends on the experience of the people joining the server . If you get someone joining a server with this tac map disabled , and he cant find the targets , he might not return , and this is a pain in the arse for the designer who has spent many hours designing a mission that few want to fly .

 

I agree , with F10 ..... if you can only see friendly units ..... and units that are currently being engaged .

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They is a lot of nice input in that nice debate.

 

I'm aware they is a crowd of data coverage now in a modern battlefield, however - In a large war with a real opponent that is bombing stuff in your side (including HQ, comms centers etc....), i'm unsure how accurate the data the A10 get would be. Also, the data we currently have is a way too accurate!

 

Actually we have the option "ZERO INFO", which is blocking everything, and the "YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ENNEMI HAS EAT AT LUNCH", which shows you everything on a dozen of km radius.

 

Actually, they is just no chance at all you miss something on your F10. They should be a way to have innacurate data - for example if they is a tank collumn hidden in a town far from FEBA, you should get a "tank collumn" icon in their last known position. Or some sneaky stuff that no one as ID yet.

 

Not to mention when you play on a "poor" side like georgian or european. :P

 

Also - DCS is not on a specific era, we have a lot of toys from the vietnam era that are going to get released. They was not that much digital screen with sat view in it, isn't it ?

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I agree , with F10 ..... if you can only see friendly units ..... and units that are currently being engaged .

 

If you enforce F10 view with the "Fog of war" option, then you can only see friendly units and enemy units that are detected by friendlies. How well a friendly unit can detect enemy depends on what sensors it has, the time of day (lighting conditions) and the weather (fog, rain etc). Also, infantry are only detectable at much shorter ranges compared to vehicles.

 

Actually we have the option "ZERO INFO", which is blocking everything, and the "YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ENNEMI HAS EAT AT LUNCH", which shows you everything on a dozen of km radius.

 

As said above, there are other options. I agree though, there should be levels of information accuracy such as "last seen at position x" or "probably in vicinity of position y"

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I dont know what server or mission you are refairing to her Taproot but this is the settings all mission designers is asked to use for missions on the 138th server. We only opened one mission for external view to check skins. If the mission you have loaded alows external view the administrator have loaded the wrong mission.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=78368&d=1363194173

 

138th.Jack

 

209166731_MissionOptions_13_03_2013.png.afd6e4593337f8dae3490a85e63b2c86.png

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A10C pilots probably dont have any trouble reading their TGP like we do, however ejector seats I have seen have got a lever to release the harness at the shoulders that allows you to lean forward. Otherwise what does steely eyed hawg pilot do when he drops his pencil?

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The ACES has an inertia real.. like on a car seatbelt but better.

 

One thing I do for SA and target ID in my missions sometimes is set up text output in F10 that allows you to request the last last known positions. It simulates coms with C4ISR and allows you to input the coords to reference the general area. Another way is to add NAV points. I do that for known AA positions to clear them before hitting the pritarget. It would be nice to have JSTARS one day.

 

I do have to applaud the FAC feature in DCS though, it really blew me away when I first saw it. Good stuff ED!

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Talked to this gusy yesterday who has inside knowledge in this.

 

The F10 is too accurate. As prevoiusly stated it would be awesome with more inaccurate intel.

 

Regarding the pencildrop it is as USMC stated. They do flip and go inverted trying to reach it on the canopy.

 

He also said that some pilots flying as FAC dont bother writing on paper, instead they just write straight on the canopy. Easy access.

 

Regarding cheating or not I never intended this to be a discussion of semantics.

 

On that note, hell. I use whatever I can to reach the goal. Use all the F's, zoom zoom and I sometimes lean so hard over that I should go to the ciropractor..

 

I would like the f10 more inaccurate..

 

I really would.

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Or you can just roll inverted and kick the rudder a bit and get your pencil back. Mind the 10 second limit, though.

 

"While plotting the revets on my 1-to-250-scale map, I

dropped the map between my ejection seat and my right control

panel. Pushing the jet over with some negative Gs, I tried

to get it to fly back up to me, but only got it hopelessly trapped

directly beneath the ejection seat."

 

"A-10 Over Kosovo", page 49

 

:)

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I am happy to read this thread, in fact I have just got back into DCS and went on my first A10 mission the other day after a brush up in the instant action. I was hopelessly flailing around the battle field, couldnt event find the guy I was supposed to be protecting, trying to find the AAA by presenting myself as an easy target and eventually getting shot down. No labels or F10 because I was trying to be realistic. Having read the useful replies on here I now realise that I hadnt given my self much of a chance. In real life the pilot has so much support that we dont have, not with the lousy wingman, lousy comms and in this case no JTAC. So I will be using the F10 from now on. With Fog of war sounds realistic enough.

 

As for dropping pencils, of course that was a fairly flippant comment for a cheap laugh. In reality though I think the A10 dude would think twice before flipping his bird upside down with a decent load of fuel and bombs at altitude. Remeberr its not about going upside down but mainting negative g long enought to locate said pencil . I would tie it to my wrist I reckon.

Technical Specs: Asus G73JW gaming laptop... i7-740QM 1.73GHz ... GTX460m 1.5GB ... 8GB DDR5 RAM ... Win7 64 ... TIR5 ... Thrustmaster T16000m

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As long as your using game controls that where made available by the Developer i don't consider anything cheating.

 

Cheating is when you start using ways not known or available to others to gain an (unfair) advantage over them.

 

Realism on the other hand......... well that's a whole different story all together.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
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In the "A-10 Over Kosovo" they keep mentioning that A-10 pilots flew with "gyrostabilized 12- or 15-

power binoculars". Would it be possible using the config file to set the zoom level, to simulate such binoculars ?

 

The British Typhoon pilots who were recently in action over Libya did precisely that, despite the battlefield networking and radar available to every pilot. Suppose you can't beat a good ol' eyeball on target, what what eh?

UltraMFCD 3.0 in the works.

 

https://ultramfcd.com

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Talked to this gusy yesterday who has inside knowledge in this.

 

The F10 is too accurate. As prevoiusly stated it would be awesome with more inaccurate intel.

 

Regarding the pencildrop it is as USMC stated. They do flip and go inverted trying to reach it on the canopy.

 

He also said that some pilots flying as FAC dont bother writing on paper, instead they just write straight on the canopy. Easy access.

 

Regarding cheating or not I never intended this to be a discussion of semantics.

 

On that note, hell. I use whatever I can to reach the goal. Use all the F's, zoom zoom and I sometimes lean so hard over that I should go to the ciropractor..

 

I would like the f10 more inaccurate..

 

I really would.

 

LOL at going inverted to find the pencil. They don't do that crap they just say "hey chief I dropped my pencil" and then I get to spend the next 10 hours looking for what he lost. If you've never spent time crouched under a raised ACES II seat you're missing out ;).

But you're right about the canopy, many write with a wax pencil info on the canopy even before leaving the spot.

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