Interview with a syrian tank operator

[maturin]

actually you have to have quite a lucky RPG shot to make it into a kill.. most of the front of the tank will not be penetrated that easily, unless being fired from basement and hitting the "belly" of the tank at the front..

Eh what?

Even an ancient PG-7VL is going to penetrate a T-72 from the sides, rear and top. Only the ERA gives you a chance of defeating the round.

 

The side of the hull gives you especially easy access to the crew compartment, engine and ammo storage.

 

With an RPG-29, a T-72 is just a big pressure cooker.

 

If you watch the mainstream media than its true... if you have critical thinking well then you reallise that its a fake story... just like the nerv gas attack.... done by saudi mercinaries....and they even brag about it....on YOUTUBE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSSfPQ8TvrU

 

LOL! That short-range homemade mortar has a roundish warhead and it's painted blue. It can only be CHEMICAL WEAPONS you guyzzz!!!

 

The state of your critical thinking has, well, gone critical.

 

technicaly white phosphorous just as napalm is a chemical weapon. The diffrence is that its not a nerv agent or irritant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtvobBbn_Fg

Neither white phosphorus nor napalm are considered chemical weapons by international treaties. You need to use actual sources, not partisan news from the internet that say anything to make a quick point. White Phosphorus causes such sensationalism partly because it looks bad. But that white smoke is just smoke. No more poisonous that diesel fumes, and not a killing agent. War has a lot of smoke in it. They are both just incendiary devices. Thermite grenades and API aren't chemical weapons.

 

The only difference is in their indiscriminate nature. Very hard to use in a city without hitting noncombatants. And WP burns have particularly horrible medical consequences.

 

The "technical" definition of inert is important why? On the most basic technical level they all kill people horribly and are all just as bad.

 

emmm what do you mean by that? if they arent us....then are they 2nd class humans? color of skin? or what?

He means that in practice, powerful countries can flout the law that they apply to others. Hypocrisy.

 

And then as a result there are people by you, who are are so outraged over this hypocrisy that they resolve to believe with religious fervor in the complete corruption of all journalism, to give cover to murderous dictatorships so they can use the same or similar weapons in far worse ways. Just so it will be "fair."

Edited October 18, 2013 by maturin

[Kaktus29]

well, WP is a chemical weapon, its not in the sense of hitting your nerves but it does damage your skin AND can kill you just as easy.. also its indiscriminate in nature as other chem weapons are..

 

And yes, WP is used to murder your opponent not MARK the target for bombardment as some try to say.. Falluja was filled with rebels, and only way to win in such condition has historically been proven is to use overwhelming force either through bombardment or use of chemical weapons.. since most of the rebels were in basement and tunnels chem weapons were used to cleanse, burn them out.. but of course US can do it and get away with it, Syria has to use T-72 and punch 1000 holes into a building to be "fair" and "correct"..

 

About the comment that 152 caliber should do it instead? yes, but as i mentioned i think there might be supply problems and this is making it difficult to use Arty rounds in this case, maybe they are low on supplies and are used sparingly when only absolutely needed..

 

We all know how Hillary Clinton got crazy when 2 old Mi-8 were being sent BACK to Syria after a maintenance in Russia back in 2011, i would only imagine its hard for Syria to get the ammo needed to do the job properly..

 

Modern attack gunships would do miracles in such situations, Mi-28 or Ka-52 would decimate terrorist,especially during the night and during interdiction missions which are the most needed now for border control and new influx of jihadists.. But for this precise reason pressure was made on Russia to not deliver such systems and here we are, watching T-72 hunt and snipe 3 jihadist running around one big building..

[Namenlos Ein]

152mm self-propelled howitzer Akatsia in action.

http://youtu.be/Kp-HRH5-zbo?t=5m42s

 

Here the same school yard on the video published 09/23/2013.

http://youtu.be/a3epasKmWzs?t=2m27s

 

By the way UralVagonZavod produce T-72 with additional protection package for urban operations.

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/T3Y5QvIFOO8?t=42s

 

 

 

[maturin]

well, WP is a chemical weapon, its not in the sense of hitting your nerves but it does damage your skin AND can kill you just as easy.. also its indiscriminate in nature as other chem weapons are..

 

Again, you aren't actually applying any extant definition of chemical weapon here. You're telling me bullets don't damage your skin and kill you? WP is an incindiary weapon, period. If it's a chemical weapon, so is a molotov cocktail. Invade Finland!

 

Everyone needs to admit that they are only calling WP a chemical weapon because the US and Israel use it, and that makes them hypocrites. I am just as opposed to WP as you are, but words have meanings. Words are important.

 

WP is controversial because it is indiscriminate, not because it is a chemical weapon. (Although objectively speaking, WP is more discriminate than napalm and poisonous gas or biological agents, all of which cover a larger area, spread their effects uncontrollably, and will harm everything in the impact zone.)

 

WP creates a rain of incandescent superheated flakes or particles when it is used in artillery. These can set fires and cause burns in flesh that are toxic, but if you have roof over your head, or aren't directly struck, you can just walk way from the cloud of smoke, which is neither superheated nor more toxic than normal smoke.

 

(The weapon WAS originally designed to create large smokescreens quickly. Obviously the smoke isn't dangerous because your troops are expected to walk through it afterwards.)

 

This makes all chemical and biological weapons (or for that matter, a cluster bomb) more indiscriminate. Use of WP in uban areas is pretty much equivalent to use of cluster bombs on a douchebaggery level. So the US, Russia, Israel and Syria are all pretty much guilty in that regard.

 

Falluja was filled with rebels, and only way to win in such condition has historically been proven is to use overwhelming force either through bombardment or use of chemical weapons..

...and they used bombardment, because WP is just artillery with an incindiary component.

 

I have never heard of the US burning down entire neighborhoods of Fallujah (you're welcome to provide a source). Because unless you actually burn down the whole house, WP can't drive you out of a basement or building, except by normal smoke. And there's a lot of smoke in war. Smoke grenades aren't chemical weapons, are they?

 

WP used offensively is more of a psychological weapon, and this fits with the descriptions of its use in Fallujah that I have read. The US shot it at fighters in trenches, driving them into the open to be engaged with HE. There was no mass poisoning or incineration of hundreds of people, combatants or otherwise. I'm sure civilians got caught in WP attacks, and that was very irresponsible of the US military. Of course, more of them got caught in conventional crossfire, like always. It's hard for me to get worked up over WP, when the route of the problem is that the US invaded in the first place.

 

Syria has to use T-72 and punch 1000 holes into a building to be "fair" and "correct"..

Only when they run out of cluster bombs, poison gas and incindiary bombs. If you really think that Assad, who has been slaughtering civilians wholesale and demolishing neighborhoods, is somehow more restrained and moral than countries were people actually complain about human rights and sign treaties, you're delusional. Yes, there's a lot of shoddy journalism out to demonize the Syrian regime, but facts are facts.

 

But for this precise reason pressure was made on Russia to not deliver such systems and here we are, watching T-72 hunt and snipe 3 jihadist running around one big building..

Just a quick question: the Syrian opposition is really made up entirely of foreign jihadis and Islamic terrorists? Definitely no chance that anyone in Syria is sick of a very old and very brutal dictatorship that has slaughtered its own citizens in the past and rules in the name of a single minority over the majority population?

Edited October 18, 2013 by maturin

[Kaktus29]

@maturin.. you seem very vested in protecting the jihadists) lol.. its absurd since German intelligence, US intel, NATO have all stated and correctly observed there is no FSA anymore.. overwhelming majority up to 90% are foreign mercs and jihadists.. sorry but if you think this is civil war you are on your own in such a "belief"..

 

You mention that T-72 punches holes cuz there is no more chemical weapons to be used) )) lol.. u do realize this war is 2 years and running, and Syria HAS/HAD over 1000 tons of REAL war chemical stockpiles that they didn't use. .but i think you are under impression and belief this isn't so..

 

its your choice to be politically vested in protecting a side that eats human hearts, me personally i like facts, and facts speak the most..

 

you failed to see that "rebellion" isn't about democracy but installing a SHARIA law and islamist state where NO RIGHTS for minorities would exist, they openly state Christians and Shiia, and allawites will be exterminated.. i have never witnessed or heard Assad say that to Sunni's.. hell, over 75 % of Syrian army IS SUNNI .. what do you think about that? ..but as i said, it would seem you are vested in protecting the organ eaters..

[maturin]

overwhelming majority up to 90% are foreign mercs and jihadists..

Oh fun, internet statistics. Feel free to provide a source for this wonderful gem.

 

lol.. u do realize this war is 2 years and running, and Syria HAS/HAD over 1000 tons of REAL war chemical stockpiles that they didn't use. .

Let's review. The started using conventional weapons to slaughter any protesters, turning an Arab Spring uprising into a civil war, then deliberately broke the conflict down along ethnic and religious lines to marshall support. Then the cluster bombs, airpower, gradually escalating so as to avoid alarming the West all at once, then small test-runs of chemical weapons followed by the main attack, designed to cow the populace and hold onto Damascus. Because even if the regime gets rid of all its chemical weapons and mollifies the UN, no Syrian will believe themselves safe from a follow-up attack.

 

 

Still, I'm glad you've dropped all this nonsense about WP and the virtuous SAA using T-72s out of mercy and restraint.

[Kaktus29]

i dropped the nonsense of WP ?really )) WP is a chemical weapon used to kill people, not "illuminate" a target .. US forces used it mainly to kill the opponents in buildings.. first you drop MK84 -opening the building so there is no ROOF, then you drop WP burning people to death.. ergo, using chem weapons to kill people in hideouts and bunkers..

 

"fun internet statistics" )) really.. i have no time to give you NATO assessments that are readily available on internet to be found and they are official, same goes for German intelligence who reported back in april 2013 most of rebels are foreign mercs financed by outside..

 

by definition this is not a civil war, its an invasion by foreign nation using mercs to kill off a government in Syria that by NATO REPORT has over 70 % support in Syria.. so much about civilians hating Assad ..

 

To tell you the truth, its quite disgusting you are defending jihadist who murdered over 3000 american civilians on 9-11 and are openly stating after Assad they will go and murder more americans..

 

so sad ..to be so immature..

[LARGE]

Oh fun, internet statistics. Feel free to provide a source for this wonderful gem.

 

 

Let's review. The started using conventional weapons to slaughter any protesters, turning an Arab Spring uprising into a civil war, then deliberately broke the conflict down along ethnic and religious lines to marshall support. Then the cluster bombs, airpower, gradually escalating so as to avoid alarming the West all at once, then small test-runs of chemical weapons followed by the main attack, designed to cow the populace and hold onto Damascus. Because even if the regime gets rid of all its chemical weapons and mollifies the UN, no Syrian will believe themselves safe from a follow-up attack.

 

 

Still, I'm glad you've dropped all this nonsense about WP and the virtuous SAA using T-72s out of mercy and restraint.

 

 

I did not read any official statements about what % of the terrorists are Syrians, but it is official that they are supported by alquida and it is all over the internet. Asad is fighting terrorists, same terrorists US was number one enemy to, and now they are supporting them. The irony..

[Namenlos Ein]

With an RPG-29, a T-72 is just a big pressure cooker.

But this ‘big pressure cooker’ can be very dangerous even for man with RPG-29.

or

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=166_1377372707

 

And don't forget this:

No politics please.

[FanBoy2006.01]

hasnt the use white phosphorous against human targets been banned as well, or is that a, it only applies to people that arent us, kind of law?

 

What the russian call flamethrower MLRS, actually use thermobaric warheads, and besides how does one shoot a flamethrower from a rocket.

 

I read up on the two subjects.

 

Firstly I read flamethrower and got stuck there and didn't look any further than that. So I talked about a normal flamethrower.

 

Secondly I looked up on white phos and was surprised to see that it kills through toxic effect as well. I knew white phos is poisonous but didn't think that this is an issue in the way it was used.

 

But WP seems to be an area were it overlaps between conventional and chemical weapons.

 

In my defense:

 

" (Editor’s note: white phosphorous and Agent Orange are not considered chemical weapons by the Chemical Weapons Convention)"

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/canadas-use-of-chemical-weapons/5350597

 

So I will have to say that I still say WP is not a chemical weapon.

[FanBoy2006.01]

technicaly white phosphorous just as napalm is a chemical weapon. The diffrence is that its not a nerv agent or irritant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtvobBbn_Fg

 

From my previous post.

 

"(Editor’s note: white phosphorous and Agent Orange are not considered chemical weapons by the Chemical Weapons Convention)"

 

 

Not true.. since most explosive material is stable on its own... C4...cordite...etc...

 

What does stability/volatility have to do with my statement? With low and high explosives chemical reactions leads to the liberation of energy. Thus you are using an "chemical agent" for a weapon or in a weapon.

 

 

And land mines...and hollow points....etc.... yeah right...

 

Eh, what? I was pointing out that it is against the law to use flamethrowers, I didn't say it was impossible to use them.

 

So what is you point?

 

 

If you watch the mainstream media than its true... if you have critical thinking well then you reallise that its a fake story... just like the nerv gas attack.... done by saudi mercinaries....and they even brag about it....on YOUTUBE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSSfPQ8TvrU

 

You quoted me on how I laid the emphasis on the word claim, yet you do not even seam to notice that.

 

I pointed out that incendiary weapons might already have been used, alluding to the paragraph before that about flamethrowers.

 

Man I always want to burst out in laughter when somebody come up with this critical thinking OBE BS.

 

Think critically. What is more horrific: Somebody that is dying from coming into contact with nerve gas or somebody that is dying from being blown open by high explosive?

 

To me, my opinion on the waring factions in Syria (Which I am not going to state.) is not formed by the weapons that they use; but rather by their motives and intended targets.