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Since we're getting close to mudmoving...


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As the addons progress,we're getting closer to ground pounding business.I think the current vehicle damage model and weapon blast effects are good for a plane sim,but I don't think it will be sufficent for helicopter modelling.

 

I read that weapons will have more advanced flight and physics modelling,but I haven't found anything about vehicle damage modelling.

 

The current damage model of vehicles is very simple.Every weapon has it's own damage,and if it exceeds the vehicles hitpoint;the vehicle is destroyed.Note that you have to have a direct hit to destroy,except Cluster and some "overkill" bombs.This is most noticable if you're using rockets to attack a convoy.A salvo two S-8 launchers to a road isn't enough to take out those "M-118" trucks.The rockets fall just 1mt of those trucks and nothing happens.Just try that 25T quick mission and you'll understand.

 

I don't expect a Hollywood explosion,but at least we should have those trucks damaged,and out of action.

 

Also a damage modelling for tanks and APC's is needed.We should be able to damage tracks,take out engines,take out their turret and concentrate on fleeing ones.IMO this is a really important point for 1.2.

 

Now,coming to cosmetics.With current modelling if you hit a tank and destroy it,a hell gate will open and burn the tank :) Here's what I mean.

asd2sa.th.jpg

 

Tanks shouldn't "burn" after they are hit like that.If not disabled,maybe explosion of ammo storage.Also those "burning shapes" are very primitive.

 

In this video,you can see what happens to an APC hit by Ka-50(with Vikhr I think).

 

http://www.aviation.ru/www.rusarm.ru/video/Ka-50.wmv

 

To sum it up,we need;

 

*More detialed vehicle damage modelling.

*Better weapon blast effects that will work with vehicle damage model.

*Better destroyed vehicle effects.

*No "Hollywood" explosions.Less flame and more dust in explosions.

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*More detialed vehicle damage modelling.

*Better weapon blast effects that will work with vehicle damage model.

*Better destroyed vehicle effects.

*No "Hollywood" explosions.Less flame and more dust in explosions.

 

lol don't forget more money on graphics card and cpu. :tongue:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Guest IguanaKing

Actually, tanks SHOULD burn after being hit. The vehicles in the video you linked are apparently empty of fuel and ammunition. Most of the damage to an armored vehicle is done by its own ammunition cooking off and its own fuel burning. ;)

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Actually, tanks SHOULD burn after being hit. The vehicles in the video you linked are apparently empty of fuel and ammunition. Most of the damage to an armored vehicle is done by its own ammunition cooking off and its own fuel burning. ;)
Uhm... the truck started burning afther the pilot shot it up with the cannon.

 

And about the APC, it doesn't have much armor and as the Vikhir can penetrate up to 1 meter of armour it shot right through and possibly not maximising damage even though the crew would most likely be disabled.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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Guest IguanaKing

Thanks...I noticed the pyrotechnics on the hill in front of the trucks. The flames were sort of accurate, but not in the right location. :D

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Thanks...I noticed the pyrotechnics on the hill in front of the trucks. The flames were sort of accurate, but not in the right location. :D
I meant the on to the right where you see the impacts of the cannon rounds.. and then it starts burning.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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Guest IguanaKing

Heh...don't get me wrong. The overall effect is accurate, but they either had pyros on that hill or somebody spilled a whole bunch of fuel on it. Its possible it was just a fuel spill set off by the tracers. Tracers set fire to all kinds of stuff. :D

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Heh...don't get me wrong. The overall effect is accurate, but they either had pyros on that hill or somebody spilled a whole bunch of fuel on it. Its possible it was just a fuel spill set off by the tracers. Tracers set fire to all kinds of stuff. :D
Maybe... but it seems as he hits the tank on the last truck.. maybe there were a little bit of fuel left if they drove it there. And an empty tank is far mor likely to catch fire than a full one.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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You don't know anything about PR do you? When high military leaders attend such demonstrations of military hardware (I guess this was somewhere in the middle east) they don't want to see armor piercing weapons in action, they want big booms. And those big booms are the things that make those officials go "wow, this weapon is great, Allah would be vengeful if we didn't buy it", so in fact, the same applies here as with little kids. Give them a big explosion, and the people that actually deceide wether or not their country will buy such weapons will be impressed, hence the comparison to little kids at airshows. :p

 

BTW, anyone figured out the name of the tune played in that Mig-29SMT video yet?

Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:

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You don't know anything about PR do you? When high military leaders attend such demonstrations of military hardware (I guess this was somewhere in the middle east) they don't want to see armor piercing weapons in action, they want big booms. And those big booms are the things that make those officials go "wow, this weapon is great, Allah would be vengeful if we didn't buy it", so in fact, the same applies here as with little kids. Give them a big explosion, and the people that actually deceide wether or not their country will buy such weapons will be impressed, hence the comparison to little kids at airshows. :p

 

BTW, anyone figured out the name of the tune played in that Mig-29SMT video yet?

Well it was quite obvious with the first truck that someone wanted a "big boom". The second however, not so obvious.

And you don't have to use that superior tone towards me.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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I have to agree that currently this sim is a long way from being ready to hover in CAS chopper missions. The low details are fine when flying in a plane, but what about things like infantry? I can see this getting boring quick unless ED has got some tricks up their sleave. I think I would still rather fly the arcade chopper in BF2 over the beautifully modelled cockpit and AFM of the KA-50 with LOMACS current landscape and damage effects.

Although, if I remember correctly....when I played the alpha version of black shark I think I remember seeing the turrets being blasted off the tanks (maybe I am just thinking of the ad pic?)

 

I just really hope there will be some kind of active infantry. (not just the little "igla/stinger" guy that looks like one of my "army men" from grade school.

is this ok?

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Uhm... the truck started burning afther the pilot shot it up with the cannon.

 

And about the APC, it doesn't have much armor and as the Vikhir can penetrate up to 1 meter of armour it shot right through and possibly not maximising damage even though the crew would most likely be disabled.

 

Um, no. Do you know how a shaped charged warhead works?

 

Anti-armour missiles don't go "right through" a target.

sigzk5.jpg
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Um, no. Do you know how a shaped charged warhead works?

Anti-armour missiles don't go "right through" a target.

Yes I know how a shaped charge works, and that the idea is that it's supposed to pierce the hull and the overpressure together with pieces of the hull makes scrap and meatloaf of the interior and crew respectively. But if the armour is thin enough the superheated slug could possibly punch through the other side too.

It does look like it goes through the APC in the video anyway.

 

Edit: Now that watched the video again, I think maybe it doesn't punch through.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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Guest IguanaKing

The shaped charge actually burns through the armor with a jet of molten metal. Once this jet reaches the interior, it pretty much incinerates everything inside the vehicle. I had probably one of the coolest chemistry teachers anybody could have back when I was in High School. He had actually been involved in the development of armor-piercing warheads, and made one in a ceramic flower pot to demonstrate the chemical reaction and its power. Now...for obvious reasons, he didn't tell us what went into it, but the catalyst was sulfuric acid. A white jet shot several feet into the air above the flower pot and the bottom of this flower pot quickly glowed red and melted, dumping the molten material into the bucket of sand beneath it. We were all standing in about a 50 ft radius circle around this reaction, and it was still almost painfully hot on our skin.

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Guys,I'm not talking about if that video is fake or not and I didn't make this thread after I saw that.That's just here for reference of what happens when a missile like vikhr hits the tank.

 

The point is,since we'll be more involved with ground combat;Lock-On needs some improvements over the last versions.Like vehicle damage modelling,infantry modelling and of course proper AI for those.Or else,like Locsta said;even that Ka-50 will get boring after you have done playing with switches and AFM.

 

Right now,it looks like we'll be flying a complicated modelled helicopter in a really simple environment.

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The shaped charge actually burns through the armor with a jet of molten metal. Once this jet reaches the interior, it pretty much incinerates everything inside the vehicle. I had probably one of the coolest chemistry teachers anybody could have back when I was in High School. He had actually been involved in the development of armor-piercing warheads, and made one in a ceramic flower pot to demonstrate the chemical reaction and its power. Now...for obvious reasons, he didn't tell us what went into it, but the catalyst was sulfuric acid. A white jet shot several feet into the air above the flower pot and the bottom of this flower pot quickly glowed red and melted, dumping the molten material into the bucket of sand beneath it. We were all standing in about a 50 ft radius circle around this reaction, and it was still almost painfully hot on our skin.
It's usually copper that makes up the metal cone that's being compressed, melted, and shot through the target I think.. If you just have some plastic explosives you should be able to make a shaped charge fairly easily... the hard part is to get the explosives :p

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Guest IguanaKing

In this particular case, the metal involved was iron filings, along with a healthy thermite reaction (it was the other solid materials for the thermite reaction that weren't revealed to us). God I loved that class...we got to blow stuff up all the time. :D

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Here's an APC getting hit by a shaped charge weapon from the right, and as we can see the jet and shrapnel goes through the vehicle.

 

nr1-97-hur-kanns-det.jpg

 

The image is from a recreation of an attack against a swedish APC in Bosnia '94. When the real attack happened there were ten people in the vehicle and no one were severely wounded, another APC were also hit but no one in that one were severely wounded either... guess they were lucky that the "jet" didn't hit any fuel or ammo, but just punched a hole straight through.

The jet apparenlty scraped the cannon ammo box in one of the vehicles...

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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In this particular case, the metal involved was iron filings, along with a healthy thermite reaction (it was the other solid materials for the thermite reaction that weren't revealed to us). God I loved that class...we got to blow stuff up all the time. :D
Maybe you have the next unabomber in that class...

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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