AH1 Q

[SimFreak]

Does anyone know what ‘airshow4’ exposes and its functionality (or at least more information about it)?

http://users.adelphia.net/~njellis/images/airshow4.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~njellis/images/airshow5.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~njellis/images/airshow1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~njellis/images/airshow3.jpg

 

(bonus picture)

http://users.adelphia.net/~njellis/images/airshow2.jpg

 

 

Thanks.

[Guest ruggbutt]

I'm gonna say it picks up flashes from a missile launch from IR missiles.

[hitman]

looks like a camera to me. those areas are pretty much blind spots on that a/c...makes sense to have a camera facing the rear rotor (much like a safety camera installed in lincolns). but perhaps you should ask a gearhead this question.

[Yellonet]

Looks to me like they are aimed at a angle away from the airframe so that they would cover a larger area.. IR detectors of some sort?

[GGTharos]

IRCM/W. Picks up missile launches, and probably attempts to jam IRH missiles.

[Guest ruggbutt]

They were modeled in EECH.

[SimFreak]

IRCM/W. Picks up missile launches, and probably attempts to jam IRH missiles.

 

Do you have any more information on how it attempts to jam incoming IRH?

 

From my understanding enormous amount of energy is required and takes sometime to power up if system works like on SU25T (5kW lamp). That particular AH1, that I took pictures of, has 4 of those things pointed at 45 degree angle to provide 360 detection range.

 

Also, I have pictures of exactly same system, but much bigger, on KC10 (newest model), although system on KC has only 2 of those things on each side. I can provide pics of it too..

[SimFreak]

Few seconds of google brought this

The QRC 81-01 "Ten High" Infrared Countermeasures (IRCM) counters infrared guided missiles launched at the rear hemisphere of specialized aircraft.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-qrc-81.htm

 

But nothing else in more detail comes up...

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

could it not be a device to check if the tail rotors is clear so that it is easier to judge when landing or taking off ? since they havent got door gunners or load masters to check for them ?

 

I just mean the rear ones, the front ones could be something entirely different. i really dunno

[Trident]

I'm pretty sure these are IR sensors for detecting approaching missiles. The IR jammer is usually located in a cylindrical contraption on the fuselage spine on both American and Russian helos.

[SimFreak]

could it not be a device to check if the tail rotors is clear so that it is easier to judge when landing or taking off ? since they havent got door gunners or load masters to check for them ?

 

I just mean the rear ones, the front ones could be something entirely different. i really dunno

That is not a camera. I can post higher-resolution picture which attests to that.

[SimFreak]

I'm pretty sure these are IR sensors for detecting approaching missiles. The IR jammer is usually located in a cylindrical contraption on the fuselage spine on both American and Russian helos.

Could you please show images of those jammers if possible?

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

That is not a camera. I can post higher-resolution picture which attests to that.

 

i believe ya, i was just guessin.

[Force_Feedback]

i believe ya, i was just guessin.

 

I thought you were joking about the cameras.

 

Those systems aren't very reliable, and go off quite often when flying above "reflective" surfaces, and there's the Sun, which could be "seen" by the system when evasive manoeuvers are being made (after catching the reflection of that same sun from a lake) :\

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

why would i joke about it, if you look at most military helos, when landing, they have an onboard personnel look out and give them helping directions, now with the cobra, there isnt onboard personnel to help with viewing behind the helo. my suggestion of cameras is feasible as when working on a cramped AC carrier, an all round view especially as you have turning rotors at the rear would be most welcome. And i didnt mean cameras for looking for incoming etc, I just meant that they would only be used when taking off and landing, and not used at all in the air. Even if the helo had sliding door window panes, the pilot himself could do that, but with the design on the cobra, it would be impossible for the pilot to look to his rear in any shape or form.

 

But it is most probably some sort of detection system.

[Trident]

Could you please show images of those jammers if possible?

 

 

Russian:

http://venus.ci.uw.edu.pl/~animal/military.pl/smiglowce/mi-24_hind/mi-24-3.jpg

Located directly above the Red Star in this image.

http://passionavionsdechasse.ifrance.com/photos/mi24_hind/descente.jpg

http://www.airforce.ru/aircraft/mil/mi-24/rybalchenko/mi-24p_15.jpg

http://212.158.133.3/hwa/vladimir_cereba/mi-24v%20(ciaf2000)/mi-24v_11.jpg

Also found on the Ka-28 and some military Mi-8 versions:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/952732/L/

Designation is L166 IIRC.

 

American:

http://www.ausairpower.net/ALQ-144-IRCM-S.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-144-cms.gif

http://public.andrews.amc.af.mil/jsoh/images/planes/AH-1W_large.jpg

http://airpower.callihan.cc/images/Helicoptr/AH64/ah64eng.jpg

http://www.us-aircraft.com/images/MH-60/Dscf0024.jpg

The location is similar to that on the Russian helos.

The designation of the system and the carrier aircraft may be guessed from the file names ;)

[Fudd]

Scotsman: There is no onboard camera to look aft of the aircraft. The only thing close to this would be the FLIR bottle on the bottom nose of the aircraft, but I know on the H-53 you could not see a full 360 degrees with it (fusalage was in the way). As for landing on LHD's and LHA's, plane captains and LSO's are tasked with ensuring full 360 degree safety from rotors.

 

GG was right when he said those sensors are for detecting IR missle launches.

 

Trident is correct about the countermeasures pod. It actually heats up and pulses flashes of energy to confuse any IR missle.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

He is probably right, i was merely guessing as to what it is, now i didnt think it was what i said, and the most likely answer was a detection system of some sort. But what i said was just a suggestion as to what it could of been, as it is feasible to have thos things that i mentioned, as several aircraft do have aft looking screens.

But whatever it does turn out to be, I still want a cobra with or without one of them :P as long as its got its minigun, i be happy withit :)

[Guest ruggbutt]

 

GG was right when he said those sensors are for detecting IR missle launches.

 

C'mon, give a brother some credit!! ;)

[SimFreak]

Trident ,

 

Thanks for that. Something about American version jammer resembles 70’s and dance floor. ;)

 

 

It actually heats up and pulses flashes of energy to confuse any IR missle.

Do you have any reference other than ‘word of a mouth’? I can’t imagine that thing actually emitting anything since equipment seems so delicate that it will melt under any radiating energy.

[GGTharos]

Have you ever used a Pyrex dish?

 

Emitting heat isn't so bad if you can get MOST of it to actually .. emit. Then your equipment doesn't absorb that heat and doesn't heat up.

 

Note that according Fudd is refering to the jamming equipment presented by trident. All this stuff is pretty sturdy.

[Fudd]

This is what I was able to find about the detecting equipment, and the data seems to be consistent to the systems employed by the CH-53.

ECP-1674 Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite reduces aircraft vulnerability with electronic countermeasures. The suite is designed to alert and protect the aircraft from surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles. The AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System (MWS) provides a visual and aural warning to flight crews of missile detection, while at the same time the MWS will initiate countermeasures by sending an eject signal to the AN/ALE-39 Countermeasures Dispenser Set (CDS). The AN/AVR-2 Laser Warning Receiver detects pulsed laser light (such as a rangefinder) directed at the helicopter and warns the crew of this activity. It provides an audio alert and identifies the threat by its type and location relative to the helicopter. The AN/APR-39A(V)2 Radar Detection System is a passive omni-directional detection system which receives and displays information to the pilot concerning the radar environment surrounding the helicopter. (Taken from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-1w.htm)

 

The ALE depensor sets are the flare boxes located on the stub wings.

 

As far as the IR lamp, which heats up and emits pulses of energy (located behined the rotor shaft), I'll keep looking for a source. I do however can promise you that is how it works, I had lots of friends who worked on hueys and cobras.

[Fudd]

Here is a source for the ALQ countermesaures located aft of the rotor shaft:

 

The AN/ALQ-44 is what is known as "hot brick" jammer. It is a little cylindrical "lighthouse" faced with a hot ceramic brick core that radiates strongly in the infrared. The core is surrounded by a rotating shutter that turns the infrared output on and off. A heatseeking SAM tries to home in on the hot jammer module, but when it is pulsed "off", the missile then assumes it has lost lock and veers off target. (Taken from http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avcobra.html )

[crazyleggs]

From Jane's: "Improved countermeasures suite in AH-1Z replaces AN/APR-39 and AN/APR-44 by AN/APR-39B(V)2 radar warning receiver. AN/AVR-2A laser detecting set (LDS) embedded in AN/AAR-47(V)2 missile warning set on AH-1Z, which also fitted with AN/ALE-47 chaff/flare dispensing subsystem."

 

Looks like picture 4 is indeed an AN/AVR-2A embedded in the AN/AAR-47. On the other pics, the other round shape towards the nose is the AN/APR-39.

[Fudd]

The Z variant is not in use yet by the HMLA squadrons. The pictures given in the intro are probably the W variant which is in full use.