Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Ok all I have been sitting back contacting all of my old dev buddies from Strike Fighters days and most recently FSX and X Plane. I am the only one that Real Life has not pulled away from Sim Development. I see the Gazelle project took off very nicely and I am excited to see them grow. Is there anyone that would like to talk shop and possibly go into a public / joint venture? I have found two great starter aircraft that do not have radar or any complex systems to code as a first effort. For fixed wing I would propose the F-100D The model is awesome but heavy on the verts. It is showing that it has around 80k. Well above the 50k max target for DCS. But the price is very attractive. $20.00 USD. The Roter Wing that i would suggest is the AH-1S This girl would go perfect with the Hewy and I have always wanted to fly her in Real Life. This model is only 30k but the cost is $110.00 Reality I understand that this is a very long shot and momentum will be slow going but if we can muster a core team that really wants to build something great we can move forward. This is just a toe in the water and I have not done any research on licensing, logistics, or even documentation acquisition. Keep your posts positive and anyone can tell me I am full of shit or that my idea is stupid. The worst that can happen is one of the big dev houses beat us too it first and we still get the birds in DCS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron886 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Sounds like you have some experience, which is valuable. Of course, DCS World is a whole new... uh, world, but I hope you can gather a team with similar experiences to put together the F-100! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAFMTL Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hey Geck, think we can pull some of the fellas we have at CA? [sigpic][/sigpic] US Air Force Retired, 1C371 No rank or title will ever be as important as the unit patch you wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratos Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I say, go for the Cobra! If you can gather a team, maybe you can get the first money you need trough kickstarter? I know I will help you guys with anything I can. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwolf Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Gecko6 I wish that your project will take off and be succesfull. I wish i could have time to spend in a DCS project but i'm already stuck deeply in my own cockpit contruction. Whatever you release/sell you'll get a couple of purchase, from me and my wife :thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] PC simulator news site. Also....Join the largest DCS community on Facebook :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger66 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Cobra would be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agg Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I dont know what the max amount of polygons is for DCS:W, but it's a lot more than 50000, I seem to recall the Mudhen model being about 250000 polys, so 80000 polys should'nt be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simas Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 As a reference: ED P51D model is ~94000 triangles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTR Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 @Gecko6 Great idea to start a open public community project! I am great fan of the open source idea and ED products since Flanker 1.0. Since 12years i am developing business apps time to contribute to fun project! Lets create a project at googlecode or sourceforge, yeehaa! [sigpic][/sigpic] Flanker driver since 1996 DxDiag.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have the ability to host project collaboration tools and I would gladly provide the working space. First step is to see who is willing and able to support such and effort. Secondly, we will have to begin to get our development framework up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Now I have used some commercial names but I currently do not have a business ID but that is minor and way down the list of priorities. The fun thing is to come up with a Dev team name. Birds of Prey (BOP) Tactical Air Command (url = TACAttack) Light Tactical Vehicles (LTV) Ghost Squadron (GS) Feel free to provide ideas. But once the team is assembled it will be our final decision of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Of course I am pulling this out of the top of my head, but this is a list of roles needed to get out of the gate. Lead Modeler - Air frame, Cockpit, Pilot, LODS etc.... Texture Artist - All textures internal / external Avionics Lead - Cockpit instrumentation Release Manager - Project Lead Mod Packager - Bundling aircraft into DCS Mod file structure Flight Dynamics Coder - FM development LUA script coders - effects, instrumentation, animation, impact detection, weapon systems, internal systems (failure simulation), to name a few. As I have pointed out that these are all roles that can be filled by multiple team members and not limited to a single name. So we can ensure development when Real life steps in and pulls us away. It is not my position to scare anyone off but this is a serious effort and we will need to treat it as such if we hope to ever release anything. I am happy that this has met with such a positive response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich666 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 This sounds interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTR Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have the ability to host project collaboration tools and I would gladly provide the working space. [...] Secondly, we will have to begin to get our development framework up and running. I think it is essecial to keep such a initiativ open sourced, if we want to release something. This means everything should be open and available for every one how want to contribute content (textures, 3d models, code,...). The project should be hosted at a public space somewhere in a cloud not a private server. The first project should be a simple plane, why not start with a sailplane? Make baby step, fall often and learn fast :-). Lets roll! [sigpic][/sigpic] Flanker driver since 1996 DxDiag.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey45 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Now, if you done this in say..... 2 yrs time I might be up for this but.... I have just started a 2 yr Art and Animation course in video games.** Even though I do have experience in Max I am not up to that level* yet. But hey I wouldn't mind doing a bit of learn as you go. * level as in, making models that are game quality. ** It's a train in your spare time type course. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 I concur with your view. The two air frames that I offered up were based on complexity of the on board systems and number of Countries that flew them. I am all for a WWII bird or even an OV-10. Even a OH-6 Loach as it is a single pilot bird. Key things that I feel should be taken into consideration for a first attempt. Single Seat. No Radar or MFD pages Multi-National flown air frame Multi-role in nature We should have a Wiki that explains in detail how to achieve success in that area. There needs to be a public and private "core team" area in such a site. This is mostly to retain data integrity and quality. What happens with open development is that we task folks to delver an object, code, or texture, etc... and then they disappear. So we need to keep those tasking very focused and manageable. Then the "core" team assembles / integrates the work done. We are on the same sheet of music and I am just the first one to stand up and attempt to attract interest. So far I have a list of 8 folks to include a Modeler, Audio, Scripter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hell you can even use your efforts in this project as course deliverable s. : ) Now, if you done this in say..... 2 yrs time I might be up for this but.... I have just started a 2 yr Art and Animation course in video games.** Even though I do have experience in Max I am not up to that level* yet. But hey I wouldn't mind doing a bit of learn as you go. * level as in, making models that are game quality. ** It's a train in your spare time type course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey45 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Good point dat. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 You might be trying to bite off more than you can chew at first. It might be easier to make something smaller first, to learn the ropes and give the members of your team experience and confidence- for example, a UAV. You could just do some kind of generic UAV interface, sort of a FC fidelity predator. You could even potentially work to integrate it with Combined Arms- the ground commander could get live video from the Predator, for example. Once everyone understands how the modding works by having a simple project under their belt, then they move on to something more complex. A full AH-1 or F-100 sim is ridiculously complex, and I think your chance of success, if that is your VERY FIRST project, isn't very good. Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Good points. I believe the UAV idea is worthy of discussion. For such a huge undertaking we would need to have a phased approach for sure. Phase 1 Get model out of Max and into the Modelviewer along with animations, textures, and .lods. Phase 2 Take aircraft and make it AI controllable and get them to fly effectively. Phase 3 Alpha of cockpit model in game and make air frame player flyable and interface it with DCS as a Mod. Get ED to review and begin steps towards license. This alone will take quite some time. Phases 4 though 12 will become increasingly more complex. I just want to reiterate that this is not going to be a 3 month effort were we can release a full bird in game. It will be a long term development cycle. The key is that we would need very dedicated resources that want to see it through the end. You might be trying to bite off more than you can chew at first. It might be easier to make something smaller first, to learn the ropes and give the members of your team experience and confidence- for example, a UAV. You could just do some kind of generic UAV interface, sort of a FC fidelity predator. You could even potentially work to integrate it with Combined Arms- the ground commander could get live video from the Predator, for example. Once everyone understands how the modding works by having a simple project under their belt, then they move on to something more complex. A full AH-1 or F-100 sim is ridiculously complex, and I think your chance of success, if that is your VERY FIRST project, isn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey45 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 ^^ start simples. IRIS is doing the.... that thing to understand DCS. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 This would be very cool. Not sure how accurate any 3 view drawing would be. RQ-4B Data from USAF General characteristics Crew: 0 onboard (3 remote: LRE pilot; MCE pilot and sensor operator) Length: 47.6 ft (14.5 m) Wingspan: 130.9 ft (39.9 m) Height: 15.3 ft (4.7 m) Empty weight: 14,950 lb (6,781 kg) Gross weight: 32,250 lb (14,628 kg) Powerplant: 1 × Allison Rolls-Royce F137-RR-100 turbofan engine, 7,600 lbf (34 kN) thrust Performance Cruise speed: 357 mph (310 kn; 575 km/h) Range: 8,700 mi (7,560 nmi; 14,001 km) Endurance: 28 hours Service ceiling: 60,000 ft (18,288 m) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptSmiley Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Sent you a PM, Gecko, looking to hearing from you soon! "Witness mere F-14s taking off from adjacent flight decks, gracefully canting left and right, afterburners flaming, and there’s something that sweeps you away—or at least it does me. And no amount of knowledge of the potential abuses of carrier task forces can affect the depth of that feeling. It simply speaks to another part of me. It doesn’t want recriminations or politics. It just wants to fly.” ― Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko6 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Back at ya! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Hey Geck, think we can pull some of the fellas we have at CA? Of course I am pulling this out of the top of my head, but this is a list of roles needed to get out of the gate. Lead Modeler - Air frame, Cockpit, Pilot, LODS etc.... Texture Artist - All textures internal / external Avionics Lead - Cockpit instrumentation Release Manager - Project Lead Mod Packager - Bundling aircraft into DCS Mod file structure Flight Dynamics Coder - FM development LUA script coders - effects, instrumentation, animation, impact detection, weapon systems, internal systems (failure simulation), to name a few. As I have pointed out that these are all roles that can be filled by multiple team members and not limited to a single name. So we can ensure development when Real life steps in and pulls us away. It is not my position to scare anyone off but this is a serious effort and we will need to treat it as such if we hope to ever release anything. I am happy that this has met with such a positive response. there's enough modders at combat ace to pump out Aircraft like crazy, it's just a matter of Converting the Assests to DCS:W, the main problems would be Simulation of Systems/Coding/Scripting. and Upsampling/adjusting the Cockpits to be clickable, and correctly modeled with systems. Not to mention converting the AFM and any Radar Modes. And Once the 3rd Party Package for Edge is Done, Terrains as well. I *could* help in these areas: Modeler - Air frame, Cockpit, Pilot, LODS etc.... Texture Artist - All textures internal / external I can adjust/optimize existing models in Max 2011-64Bit, no problem. Building a complex airframe from scratch, well, I havent tried yet, nor know where or how to start. I've built a few simpler airframes, as well as my carrier a few times. I can texture etc. (Spec, Bump, UV Maps etc). in photoshop and export, I'm not Efficient in UV Mapping in Max *(Yet)* Gimmie another Year's practice. I have Already Imported Several Completed 3d Airframes/Objects built for TWs Engine into the EDM Model Viewer and then In Game, So I have an Idea what needs to be done to convert a model done for SF2/TW to DCSW. (Main things being textures and Animations). I've only just begun studying/looking at LUA Files. So I wouldnt want to say I could. Programming, C++, and all that stuff, I dont do. ^^ start simples. IRIS is doing the.... that thing to understand DCS. the BD-5 MicroJet? that thing is Awesome. I concur with your view. The two air frames that I offered up were based on complexity of the on board systems and number of Countries that flew them. I am all for a WWII bird or even an OV-10. Even a OH-6 Loach as it is a single pilot bird. Key things that I feel should be taken into consideration for a first attempt. Single Seat. No Radar or MFD pages Multi-National flown air frame Multi-role in nature We should have a Wiki that explains in detail how to achieve success in that area. There needs to be a public and private "core team" area in such a site. This is mostly to retain data integrity and quality. What happens with open development is that we task folks to delver an object, code, or texture, etc... and then they disappear. So we need to keep those tasking very focused and manageable. Then the "core" team assembles / integrates the work done. We are on the same sheet of music and I am just the first one to stand up and attempt to attract interest. So far I have a list of 8 folks to include a Modeler, Audio, Scripter. if that's the Case, MIG-15/17... F-86, and anything to fly vs the P-51D, Pretty Much Any jet/airframe from the Strike Fighters Era. Perhaps Post on CombatAce's Modding Forums? Edited October 15, 2012 by SkateZilla Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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