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Ракеты в DCS


Chizh

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11 hours ago, Chizh said:

OK
Why you think that DCS R-27 can not able to pull 3g terminally?

Want tracks? The DCS R-27 only barely catches an entirely nonmaneuvering bandit within the graphs numbers, it infact will often fall behind by a few hundred meters. No room for any 3G maneuvering and still hitting the target. Im sure you have tested it.

 

You think not much would change based on documents? Well, when you upgraded the AIM-120, they performed much better (>23%) than your interpretation of the same documents in the same manuals. How does that make any sense?

 

I think you should just admit that you dont want to or cant work on russian missiles, and just remove them from the simulator. The same thing goes for missiles like R-33 and MICA, which have not been reworked for a long time. I dont understand what EDs strategy here is. I think you understand what it looks like to us paying customers.

 

I dont think its normal for the 2 most used weapons to be modelled to such different standards. For 2 years. In any game.


Edited by Max1mus
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When ED reworks russian missiles:
 


(April 2021 update)

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11 hours ago, Chizh said:

OK
Why you think that DCS R-27 can not able to pull 3g terminally?

Because it can't do it in game?

 

You already confirmed ED took the range as an r aero figure (when it isn't one) here and said you would look into it.

 

Anyway I think FoxAlfa is right that a small drag tweak in that regard so it can hit that mark would be a step in the right direction until the CFD rolls around.

It would be similar to the process of slowly tweaking the AMRAAM until it was where it needed to be.


Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork
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9 часов назад, Max1mus сказал:

Want tracks? The DCS R-27 only barely catches an entirely nonmaneuvering bandit within the graphs numbers, it infact will often fall behind by a few hundred meters. No room for any 3G maneuvering and still hitting the target. Im sure you have tested it.

I can say that today, thanks to FoxAlfa, we saw a problem with the R-27R missile, which has a range less than the declared one by 10-20%. We will fix this.

 

9 часов назад, Max1mus сказал:

I think you should just admit that you dont want to or cant work on russian missiles, and just remove them from the simulator. 

This is a stupid statement.

 

9 часов назад, Max1mus сказал:

The same thing goes for missiles like R-33 and MICA, which have not been reworked for a long time. I dont understand what EDs strategy here is. I think you understand what it looks like to us paying customers.

We have no official data on MICA missile.
The R-33 missile is not used on flyable aircraft, so the refinement of its flight model will be a second priority.

 

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2 минуты назад, Chizh сказал:

I can say that today, thanks to FoxAlfa, we saw a problem with the R-27R missile, which has a range less than the declared one by 10-20%. We will fix this.

27Р и ЭР или только 27Р?

18 часов назад, Chizh сказал:

Батарея и скорость ракеты это разные и не связанные вещи.

Разные, да не совсем. Когда у ракеты по достижению значений по дальности согласно графику еще есть энергия, а ее аккум умирает, то, очевидно, 3 единицы она не выжмет.

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4 минуты назад, TotenDead сказал:

27Р и ЭР или только 27Р?

27Р

 

4 минуты назад, TotenDead сказал:

Разные, да не совсем. Когда у ракеты по достижению значений по дальности согласно графику еще есть энергия, а ее аккум умирает, то, очевидно, 3 единицы она не выжмет.

Конечно. Управление то вырубится.

 

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5 minutes ago, Chizh said:

I can say that today, thanks to FoxAlfa, we saw a problem with the R-27R missile, which has a range less than the declared one by 10-20%. We will fix this.

 

Does your interpretation of the range chart take into account that the radio proximity fuze of the R-27 needs to have a minimum closure speed of 150 m/s with the target to work? (Propably so it can get a proper doppler return to determine the moment it passes the target)

 

So at the rear hemisphere range in the chart, the missile has to fly at least 150 m/s (540 km/h) faster than the target, otherwise it could destroy the target with a direct hit and the contact fuze.

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4 минуты назад, BlackPixxel сказал:

 

Does your interpretation of the range chart take into account that the radio proximity fuze of the R-27 needs to have a minimum closure speed of 150 m/s with the target to work? (Propably so it can get a proper doppler return to determine the moment it passes the target)

 

So at the rear hemisphere range in the chart, the missile has to fly at least 150 m/s (540 km/h) faster than the target, otherwise it could destroy the target with a direct hit and the contact fuze.

Where does the data about the proximity fuse come from?

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2 minutes ago, Chizh said:

Where does the data about the proximity fuse come from?

 

One of the MiG-29 manuals has a table with the proximity fuze settings in it. It goes from closure speeds from 150 m/s to 2650 m/s.

vT7kQPU.jpg

 

And here is what appears to be an upgrade for the R-27 fuze from the Ukrainian Radionix. You can see the same specs of 150 m/s to 2650 m/s.

1abM41I.jpg

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17 минут назад, Chizh сказал:

 

Конечно. Управление то вырубится.

 

В этом то и проблема. Ракета не поражает цель из-за того, что она достигает значений из графика в момент, когда заканчивается батарея. Для маневра в 3 единицы у неё должно быть ещё несколько секунд в запасе, т.е лететь к цели она должна чуть быстрее

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30 минут назад, BlackPixxel сказал:

 

One of the MiG-29 manuals has a table with the proximity fuze settings in it. It goes from closure speeds from 150 m/s to 2650 m/s.

vT7kQPU.jpg

 

And here is what appears to be an upgrade for the R-27 fuze from the Ukrainian Radionix. You can see the same specs of 150 m/s to 2650 m/s.

1abM41I.jpg

Thanks!

 

25 минут назад, TotenDead сказал:

В этом то и проблема. Ракета не поражает цель из-за того, что она достигает значений из графика в момент, когда заканчивается батарея. Для маневра в 3 единицы у неё должно быть ещё несколько секунд в запасе, т.е лететь к цели она должна чуть быстрее

Ты не верно понял суть. У ракеты в момент подлета к цели должна быть располагаемая перегрузка около 3. А времени может и не быть.

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9 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

 

This is just for the R-27R.

And R-27T has the same problem, I will do more test later for ER and ET


Edited by FoxAlfa
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-------

 

All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation.

 

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2 часа назад, FoxAlfa сказал:

And R-27T has the same problem, I will do more test later for ER and ET

 

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5 hours ago, Hoarfrost said:

по 77-й тоже сделай)

 Unfortunately, there are no exact graphs for the R-77 like for the R-27, only non-precise marketing ones. I only feel R-77 is missing the Loft.  

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-------

 

All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation.

 

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a bit you realize the pig likes it.

 

Long time ago in galaxy far far away:

https://www.deviantart.com/alfafox/gallery

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12 hours ago, Chizh said:

I can say that today, thanks to FoxAlfa, we saw a problem with the R-27R missile, which has a range less than the declared one by 10-20%. We will fix this.

 

What i still dont understand - with R-27 you are trying to match your data perfectly, but with AIM-120 you accept it having 11% to >23% too much range based on the same data?

Why should R-27ER match the graph perfectly and AIM-120 have extra energy? CFD research? But then how can you say this when no research is being done for R-27?

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When ED reworks russian missiles:
 


(April 2021 update)

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5 hours ago, Chizh said:

Будет правиться. Баг записан.

When will these bugs be fixed or better yet the CFD be released?

 

Will it roll out along side MAC in Q3/4 of this year?

 

Will other FC3 bugs be fixed there too like the Su27 DL or F15 radar range

 

Or will MAC not correct these issues

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1 час назад, TaxDollarsAtWork сказал:

When will these bugs be fixed or better yet the CFD be released?

We'll preparing temporary solution before CFD.  It will be soon.

 

1 час назад, TaxDollarsAtWork сказал:

Will other FC3 bugs be fixed there too like the Su27 DL or F15 radar range

What is wrong Su-27 and F-15?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chizh said:

What is wrong Su-27 and F-15?

 

Hi Chizh, lots of threads and documentation has been provided for very bad radar range inaccuracy for F-15C, Su-27, MiG-29 (all underperforming), F-18 and F-16 (both seriously over-perfoming).   I hope that you guys take care of this, because radar range is probably the easiest thing you can fix right now.   It's so easy I can do it myself, so it would be nice if it could be done quickly.

For the Su-27 in particular, a functional wingman datalink is desired for MP.

 

Back to missiles, there is a significant problem with missiles and radars vs ECM right now (100% lock broken and 100% miss by RF missiles when ECM is on for F-18/14 and Mirage) which has been reported in multiple threads, and again here would be nice if you could comment as this is a fairly urgent subject at minimum for multiplayer.


Edited by GGTharos
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