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Ракеты в DCS


Chizh

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1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

A MESA can generate the required signals just as well.


The Meteor was put on Eurofighters in 2019, on german Eurofighters in 2021. The older ones with MESA dont have the necessairy software to fire it. If you want to use it as an unguided rocket, sure thing, then you might be able to introduce it to DCS.

If you still have the same opinion, then you should ask for R-37M and R-77-1 on the flanker. The necessairy info for those is out there too, then. And if a 2003 aircraft can generate the required signals for a 2019 missile, then a Su-27S can generate the necessairy signals for R-37M and R-77-1, without a doubt. Infact, R-77-1 and R-77 share the same pylon. Which means the soviet MiG-29S can carry a 2012-2014 missile.


Edited by Max1mus
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11 hours ago, Max1mus said:


I did. They kindly told me that they want to drop realism where fun/"content" is due. And updated their FAQs to include that.

I doubt that, they have said multiple times their going to do their best to make it as realistic as possible.  And considering how good they did with the AIM-54 I think it'll be as close as were going to get for a long time.

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11 hours ago, Max1mus said:


I did. They kindly told me that they want to drop realism where fun/"content" is due. And updated their FAQs to include that.

 

I will say again ... the mission maker can remove METEOR from inventory. 

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11 часов назад, Max1mus сказал:


I did. They kindly told me that they want to drop realism where fun/"content" is due. And updated their FAQs to include that.

Please give a link to this FAQ.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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On 7/31/2021 at 2:00 AM, Hoarfrost said:

И что же получается, плохие русские всех обманули, в буклетах указали 80 км, а она на 50 летает.

Любая неопределённость трактуется в пользу целевой аудитории.

А по конкретной специфической теме полной определённости быть не может, поэтому "кто девушку ужинает, тот её и танцует".

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В DCS Р-77 имеет дальность пуска 80 км в стратосфере, на скоростях около 2М. Тут УНВП.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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15 hours ago, Max1mus said:


I did. They kindly told me that they want to drop realism where fun/"content" is due. And updated their FAQs to include that.

Understandable for HB, their F-14 is pure arcade ,FM, radar immune vs ECM, aim-54 better than METEOR :), i am curious to see how will be our french Meteor 🙂

4 hours ago, nighthawk2174 said:

 And considering how good they did with the AIM-54

🤣

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Pure arcade is a too strong wording, but as far as I understand f-14+aim-54 operperforms quite a bit in terms of low flying targets detection and TWS capabilities. Furthermore, there seems to be absolutely no influence from re-reflections from the ground when the missile is launched at low flyers

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AIM-54A received an upgrade in production to deal with low altitude threats, called the 'Reject Image Device', AIM-54C was build with much better capabilities.

Not sure where you're going with TWS, if you have the SNR for a track, you have the SNR for a track, end of story.

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1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

AIM-54A received an upgrade in production to deal with low altitude threats, called the 'Reject Image Device', AIM-54C was build with much better capabilities.

Not sure where you're going with TWS, if you have the SNR for a track, you have the SNR for a track, end of story.

exactly

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А когда починят БЦВМ на красных аэропланах четвертого поколения ?

а то стреляя по ВЦ летящей на 200 м. и скоростях звука (1240 км/ч)  разрешенные дальности пуска в ЗПС не соответствуют  возможностям ракеты ,в частности Р27Р, СОВСЕМ не соответствуют или на этих скоростях рекомендация пускать в упор УР ,а лучше даже из ВПУ поражать ВЦ (Р27 то у нас летает теперь по всем реальным правилам же)! ! !

 

 

…В бою не бывает чудес…

 

Мое видео виртуальных полетушек :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWYN_xw4ZJAkJlCPwywW_Lg

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1 час назад, FAB999 сказал:

А когда починят БЦВМ на красных аэропланах четвертого поколения ?

а то стреляя по ВЦ летящей на 200 м. и скоростях звука (1240 км/ч)  разрешенные дальности пуска в ЗПС не соответствуют  возможностям ракеты ,в частности Р27Р, СОВСЕМ не соответствуют или на этих скоростях рекомендация пускать в упор УР ,а лучше даже из ВПУ поражать ВЦ (Р27 то у нас летает теперь по всем реальным правилам же)! ! !

 

 

Да, косяк расчета зоны пуска. Записал.

Дело в том что корректно просчитать предельные режимы пусков не просто.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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They can only be correctly calculated based on time of flight data for the missile...so every missile needs a TOF table.  You can probably automate collection of this data since you could run the missile flight simulation independently from DCS.

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10 часов назад, Chizh сказал:

Да, косяк расчета зоны пуска. Записал.

Дело в том что корректно просчитать предельные режимы пусков не просто.


Андрей, ещё напоминаю про отсутсвие ПР при не правильно выставленном/изменившимися условиями местонахождения нуле барометрического высотомера. Ранее выяснили, не исправили пока смотрю. 

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30 минут назад, SAB сказал:


Андрей, ещё напоминаю про отсутсвие ПР при не правильно выставленном/изменившимися условиями местонахождения нуле барометрического высотомера. Ранее выяснили, не исправили пока смотрю. 

Просто выставить правильно.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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20 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

AIM-54A received an upgrade in production to deal with low altitude threats, called the 'Reject Image Device',

Could you write when? And which problem did it solve exactly? After brief googling i only found this: "AIM-54A RID modification offers improved capabilities against low altitude targets over water."

20 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

 

AIM-54C was build with much better capabilities.

Well, yes, yes it was

20 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

Not sure where you're going with TWS, if you have the SNR for a track, you have the SNR for a track, end of story.

 

AFAIR there are some issues when locking and targets against the ground

UPD. Is semi-active homing possible in TWS? Especially when launching at multiple targets. If not, how does the missile get mid-course corrections?


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5 часов назад, Chizh сказал:

Просто выставить правильно.

 

Я взлетаю с Беслана, там выставлено правильно допустим. На море примерно на высоте до 500м ПР не дает, при наличии условий по дальности. Да и писали что предохранителем является обжимка шасси, а не высота - это не реалистично. 

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1 час назад, SAB сказал:

 

Я взлетаю с Беслана, там выставлено правильно допустим. На море примерно на высоте до 500м ПР не дает, при наличии условий по дальности. Да и писали что предохранителем является обжимка шасси, а не высота - это не реалистично. 

Баг, записан. Ждет очереди.

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Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Could you write when? And which problem did it solve exactly? After brief googling i only found this: "AIM-54A RID modification offers improved capabilities against low altitude targets over water."

 

I know that the information exists (I have seen it before) - I'll look for it again if I don't forget.

As to what it solved exactly, there's almost never any technical information available in public documents.   Clutter rejection over water and land (different types of surface even) isn't the same.

The point here is that the missile was intended to intercept low flying weapons - AIM-54C took over that with better capability.

 

3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

AFAIR there are some issues when locking and targets against the ground

 

There's no locking involved in TWS, as well, 'some issues' doesn't mean anything.  You could generically say there are 'some issues' with any radar.

 

3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

UPD. Is semi-active homing possible in TWS? Especially when launching at multiple targets. If not, how does the missile get mid-course corrections?

 

It is, but not for terminal homing.  The AIM-54A (don't know what the C does, we speculate it's much more like the AMRAAM due to the solid state INU and other components) will receive instructions from the AWG-9 to look in a certain direction and set up its range and doppler gates.   The missile uses this information to work is mid-course by seeing the reflections from the target.  So, the AWG-9 says 'look there, you're looking for this kind of thing', the missile looks, determines all of the parameters it needs to shape the trajectory and acts accordingly.

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6 hours ago, TotenDead said:

AFAIR there are some issues when locking and targets against the ground

If your SNR is within the limits of the radar I see no reason that it would have difficulty.  Especially for a PD system.

6 hours ago, TotenDead said:

UPD. Is semi-active homing possible in TWS? Especially when launching at multiple targets. If not, how does the missile get mid-course corrections?

 

No the PD illuminator is not turned on in TWS, the missile gets updates through the radar's side lobes.

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14 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

 

As to what it solved exactly, there's almost never any technical information available in public documents. 

 

I'm asking because a 70-80s R-33 had problems with the antipode effect and could only intercept like 1 of 10 of low flying targets such as cruise missiles before one of the upgrades. And AIM-54A is a somewhat older missile 

 

14 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

There's no locking involved in TWS

Well, tracking, or whatever, but i think you got what i meant.

14 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

as well, 'some issues' doesn't mean anything.  You could generically say there are 'some issues' with any radar.

Well, yeah, right, that accusation needs basement i'm too lazy to look for. xd

14 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

 

It is, but not for terminal homing.  The AIM-54A (don't know what the C does, we speculate it's much more like the AMRAAM due to the solid state INU and other components) will receive instructions from the AWG-9 to look in a certain direction and set up its range and doppler gates.   The missile uses this information to work is mid-course by seeing the reflections from the target.  So, the AWG-9 says 'look there, you're looking for this kind of thing', the missile looks, determines all of the parameters it needs to shape the trajectory and acts accordingly.

Okay, but what if the missile seeker doesn't see the reflection? It doesn't have aircraft radar's capabilities. I mean, radio correction was used in R-27 right for that reason. If the target can be seen by the tomcat but not by the missile is it launched into the general direction of the target?

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9 hours ago, TotenDead said:

I'm asking because a 70-80s R-33 had problems with the antipode effect and could only intercept like 1 of 10 of low flying targets such as cruise missiles before one of the upgrades. And AIM-54A is a somewhat older missile 

 

I don't know the antipode effect, at least not by that name.  I'm aware of multi-path problems and scintillation/clutter issues increasing miss distance (in different ways, but still) and of course problems with fuzing at low altitudes (I imagine premature fuzing).  The AIM-54A is an analog or at least non-solid-state missile which had problems identified and rectified in production.    There's probably AIM54 'Mod x' but unlike say the sidewinder, we don't have such a list for the 54 except for very broad descriptions.

I don't believe that you can compare two missiles in much detail without knowing the specifics of them deeply, but I agree that knowledge of one could arouse suspicion for another.

 

9 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Well, tracking, or whatever, but i think you got what i meant.

 

Yep but basically without knowing what they're talking about, if you have enough SNR you have a track in either TWS or STT - these are PD radars so problems applicable to non-PD radars when looking down into clutter don't necessarily apply here.

 

9 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Okay, but what if the missile seeker doesn't see the reflection? It doesn't have aircraft radar's capabilities. I mean, radio correction was used in R-27 right for that reason. If the target can be seen by the tomcat but not by the missile is it launched into the general direction of the target?

 

I don't know, I think the FCS handled that and wouldn't give you a DLZ if it believed the RCS was too small, but I'm going off of memory so don't quote me on this.   Because of this there is a practical limit for launching the AIM-54 vs say a fighter, like 50nm TWS and probably around 60 in STT, same with bombers but obviously at longer ranges.  None of this stuff is modeled in DCS, so I don't think HB can make this happen until ED upgrades the radar simulation in general.


Edited by GGTharos

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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