Illegal Loadouts

[Alfa]

Posting this information from the log which I assumed was accurate was a mistake on my behalf.

 

Ok lets move on then :) ....

 

Unfortunately we will have to live with cheating online until 1.2 or later.

 

Yes it looks like it, but this kind of problem often comes about because a quick fix is being made to an isolated issue without fully taking the overall situation into consideration - i.e. what other problems the fix can cause.

 

For this reason I would encourage people to use this thread to bring forward ideas to prevent the problem of online cheating - that way we may help the developers to come up with a better and more complete solution for future projects.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Pilotasso]

All this seems to be a product of a rather small and annoying bug. Any chance for a hot fix?

[firesoldier845]

Firesoldier. I think friday nights on our server would interest you. See the "Dedicated server List" thread for full details.

 

Yes, I know about Fridays on your server and look forward to it. But I still like to fly as much as I can on your server - best in HL for fans of SU-25. thank you so much. one of these days I will get lucky and catch "stat padder" vulching me at airfield with an R-60.

 

cheers

[504 Wolverine]

Well I think we all can put this little fiasco behind us. Things can be posted with blind fury and lead to all sorts of bad things happening. Nice to see peeps making up. Also thanks to Alfa for keeping the thread open.

[Vosxod]

Posting this information from the log which I assumed was accurate was a mistake on my behalf. Unfortunately we will have to live with cheating online until 1.2 or later.

 

Voxsod I apologise for causing any harm to you or your squadron name.

It's Vosxod actually. Thanks. Now I can be happy :)

[Guest ruggbutt]

Now that everyone has participated in the group hug I have an important question...........Who grabbed my ass?

[Tracker]

Now that everyone has participated in the group hug I have an important question...........Who grabbed my ass?

 

Sorry, it looked so much like my wifes:rolleyes:

[169th_Dredd]

Ok lets move on then :) ....

 

 

 

Yes it looks like it, but this kind of problem often comes about because a quick fix is being made to an isolated issue without fully taking the overall situation into consideration - i.e. what other problems the fix can cause.

 

For this reason I would encourage people to use this thread to bring forward ideas to prevent the problem of online cheating - that way we may help the developers to come up with a better and more complete solution for future projects.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

 

 

How about a patch for Server/Hosts to use that replaces the mission classfication/payload locking feature like 1.1

With builtin uninstall function so can be easily removed as well.

 

 

 

(simple)

[Prophet_169th]

There's a bug present, and it needs to be addressed. Potentnialyl there are two bugs in fact - one bug has to do with the server log, the other with payloads being left set by the last client to have the slot.

 

The loadout bug is easy to reproduce.

 

All you have to do, is LOPE a plane, say let the SU33 carry R77. Jump in a server, and create and SAVE a loadout with R77.

 

The next person to take that slot, will be able to choose that loadout, as it will be in the drop down list.

 

It has also been in my experience, that the person who jumps in that slot, will them have the same LOPE'd ability, as in being able to create new loadouts with the R77.

 

Recently my computer took a crap. I had to get a new motherboard. Well I ended up formatting also. I installed LOMAC, then 1.1 then 1.11.

 

I jumped in our server, and took an SU33, and was able to use R77. I was asking WTF is up with that? I didnt even have LOPE at the time, I had to get LOPE to correct my problem, because whoever the guy was, also took one of the jammer pods off a wing, so I could only have 1.

 

Ugh, this is an ugly bug.

 

The only solution I see at the moment, is turning combat views off, and turning external views on. So that you can F2 to all the planes and check loads.

 

Is there anyway to allow F2 view to only spectators?

[Yellonet]

Is there anyway to allow F2 view to only spectators?

Which would lead another kind of cheating... one player is a pilot and his friend is a spectator telling the pilot where the enemies are :(

[GGTharos]

No, but at least you can turn off F5.

 

Now the question is, will there be people who can use F2 effectively, or will they end up flying into mountains/getting mesmerised and so on and so forth? ;)

 

And of course, there's the F6 view which isn't helping.

[S77th-RYKE]

all this crap is why i dont fly on HL :(

 

you are missing out on a good time my friend, things like that happen very rarely and wether it happened deliberately or thru a bug is no big deal as those using modded load outs are identified and kicked (and ridiculed) pretty quickly

 

my advice would be to not hit "fly" until you made sure of your load out .

 

I found that 95% of flyers online act honorably , some team killing happen occasionnaly but most often a lack of knowledge about hud symbology or weapons modes (EOS for example)or HoJ IFF IDing is to blame for teamkills.

 

Online is where lomac really comes alive .

 

S!!

[Yellonet]

I have Flanker 2 and have had LockOn from release but have never tried either online. Is it only aircraft vs aircraft or can you have goals and such... like blue have 2 players flying cap somewhere and 2 others going on a long range strike while red have 2 players making a ground attack against some target and 2 other intercepting the blue's making the long range strike?

[Pilotasso]

I have Flanker 2 and have had LockOn from release but have never tried either online. Is it only aircraft vs aircraft or can you have goals and such... like blue have 2 players flying cap somewhere and 2 others going on a long range strike while red have 2 players making a ground attack against some target and 2 other intercepting the blue's making the long range strike?

 

Most of times there are no specific goals, but if you go to 169th server for example you get to wack a RWR station. Even if there is no goal it is up to the teams to devise ways to get some sort of tactical advantage for easier kills. Such tactics are usualy to kill long range SAM's and strategic airfield take over. I like particulary this last, and many times I load up a flanker or a fulcrum with bombs so that I may pick up an F-15 later and kick butt. ;)

[Yellonet]

So when playing online specific airfields belong to different sides?

[Tracker]

The bugs are caused by a this:

1. When a mission is saved on the fly it saves the slots current configurations (even if loped or modded manually) and updates the files accordingly on the PC saving the mission. When replayed it will have the mods incorporated in the mission complete with tail numbers etc.

 

2. When player1 jumps in a slot and his PC has loped mods, AND he uses them in the mission and leaves...player2 upon joining into that slot will assume all the log entries of player1. This means all the bad things player1 did will now have player2's name on them and both MeInit files will be clean of any Mods.:cool:

[Pilotasso]

So when playing online specific airfields belong to different sides?

 

 

Some airfields are designated for take off and landing. Most servers establish an imaginary border where you have blue and red airfilds, each with defenses and ground units. From the moment you take out those you can safely land there to refuel and rearm, and use that strategic spot to fly into enemy ground faster and with more fuel to burn at your discrtetion. Usualy it also enables the oposing side to be surprised by attacks from unexpected directions, or you could be overwelmed yourself by a counter attack and have the base retaken. But then CAP's are needed to keep the other side out. Its very interesting fight.

[Yellonet]

Some airfields are designated for take off and landing. Most servers establish an imaginary border where you have blue and red airfilds, each with defenses. From the moment you take out those defenses you can land there to refuel and rearm, and use that strategic spot to fly into enemy ground faster and with more fuel to burn at your discrtetion. Usualy it also eneables the oposing side to be surprised by different attack directions, or you could be overwelmed by a counter attack and have the base retaken. But then CAP's are needed to keep the other side out. Its very interesting fight.

Hmm... yeah, that sounds quite interesting.. I'm mostly a A-G guy...coughasmyairtoairskillssuckcough

[Manny]

I would like to comment. It appears you are stating, by your action, how "unfair" it is regarding an apparent "advantage" one weapon system or aircraft has over another. There is no need to react negatively (player hate) toward the R-27EA, EM Alamo (AA-10D) the pilot fired as it is no different than an all aspect AMRAAM.

 

I know I will never play on your server and will never be welcome if I have to "restrict" my loadout to make the game "fair." I this is a sticking point for you then you may as well complain about the IRST, gimbled seeker heads, high thrust to weight, low speed high AoA fights, beaming, pouncing, punching, high speed low AoA, etc.

 

Why don't you just make the aircraft meet on a common runway and see who can crash into the other first.

 

I respect you as it is your server and with any online game, respect the server rules but man either play the game or quit. Vulching, gouging, and unfair play is one thing but to discipline someone for using an effective 70Km range all aspect SARH or AR that requires you to think, requires you to react, requires you to know that when your ass is locked up you better start movin or die, well then I do not understand how you play the game.

 

I have taken out Eagles with this and similar weapons in BVR and VR and watched with radar lock or not, as the player flew straight and level with a clean, clear, and naked attitude....bahh that is not my fault or EDs.

 

As I wrote, I respect you for your server rules but you have definitley gone way over the edge with that.

 

Subnite: I did read that there was a bug in 1.01 regarding some SARH missles, the AIM-7 and R-27EA included, whereby there was no continbuous RWR tone once the missle was fired. If this persists today and is still a "Bug", then I would be in favor of limiting the loadout or suggest Eagle pilots do what has been donw before; namely fly at greater than speed of sound and wildly dump chaff and flare until you get into visual ranger and then unleah the AIM-9s.

[S77th-GOYA]

ED, could you also make the EA explode upon launch. And maybe it could weigh 5000Kg as well. Thanks

[Manny]

Vosxod is a tool !

 

"... he killed me twice as i climbed outta my base !"

 

I thought wheels up was fights on? I recall killin an Eagle with IRST lock that was loitering my airfield. My wheels were barely up....

 

"... but to hang around a base shooting down and wait for respawn is just lame."

 

Agreed there is no fun in that especially since most mission planners do not include anti-aircraft defenses at the field that would protect you again st loiterers.

[GGTharos]

Manny, the 27EA was neevr put into production. It's not unwanted because it makes thinks more 'fair', it's unwanted because it was never used on teh real aircraft.

 

You may want to know all the issues before you light up the thread again. VERY, VERY few servers at ALL will look upon you kindly if you load what are termed 'illegal' weapons onto your aircraft. Loading a 27EA is like loading an AIM-54 on the Eagle. Period.

[Manny]

Manny, the 27EA was neevr put into production. It's not unwanted because it makes thinks more 'fair', it's unwanted because it was never used on teh real aircraft.

 

You may want to know all the issues before you light up the thread again. VERY, VERY few servers at ALL will look upon you kindly if you load what are termed 'illegal' weapons onto your aircraft. Loading a 27EA is like loading an AIM-54 on the Eagle. Period.

 

I am aware of the objections, the issues, toward the use of the R-27EA and R-27EM AA-10D Alamo missile and chose ot relight this thread. BTW, the missile is in production, not currently used. However, would not this objection also extend toward nearly all remaining Soviet-built Air to Air missile technology after the AA-8 (R-60) Aphid? Technically speaking, there was limited to no oppotunity for Soviet Air to Air missile technology to be employed.

 

The Vietnam War was the last opportunity for Soviet-built A2A missile technology to be employed. There have been opportinities for theatres of actual use and operation. Thus, the The Vympel R-73 Archer, R-77 AA-12 Adder, and every furture production missile should be considered an "illegal" loadout.

 

The Fulcrum, Flanker, and Frogfoot should be limited to AA-7 and previous missile technology. I'm talkin the days of the MiG-21 and prior.

 

As for the AIM-54 Phoeinx missile system, I thought that was F-14 Fleet Defense restricted and the F-14 was built to carry that missile in a qty of 6?

 

Nonetheless, this is a game simulating a conflict that never happened in real life, simulating the use of aircraft that presently have not seen actual combat and no, Iraq and other nations possession does not constitute use in battle since these aircraft were prcticaly never used.

 

I am of the opinion this attempt at fanaticism toward reality has gone way too far and for ED to make the missile a "dumb missile" is silly. Just one man's opinion.

[Ice]

Manny you miss the point. Even if the AE is a real weapon. If the consensus is that it should not be used then a player disregarding these rules is giving himself an unfair advantage against his opponents.

 

If the F1 Racing Committee says slicks are not allowed this season. What do you think they will do to a team that ignores this ruling and starts to qualify with them anyway ?

[504 Wolverine]

I see no objections to the R-27EM on this thread, although this missile is the same as the ER but for use against low flying cruise missiles. I don't even know if the different seeker head is modeled in lock-on.

 

The R-27AE, however is not in production, politics killed this missile off while in development.