Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

[Pilotasso]

The loss of the 21's and 23's over to the F-15 has alot to do with the fact the migs had inferior systems and pilot training. This still holds true against the Su-27S today for being substandard behind the eagle for 20+ years.

 

If you ask me it wouldnt make much of a difference between then and now.

[Exorcet]

I'm not against notching which means firing/pressing on your opponent BEFORE going low. But frankly, starting the fight with an altitude/range handicap does not make any sense to me.

Well, with SFM missiles, the range difference is probably not as big as it should be. We all know FC2 missiles ignore launch vehicle speed, but I also feel as though things are wonky with gravity and potential energy. Altitude only seems to really factor in via air density, and if you line up your shot correctly, a missile launch low can quickly get up to higher air where it can sustain its speed.

 

I don't agree, I flew Su-27 a lot (stopped few months ago flying FC2 altogether) and you wouldn't see me fly low all the time, it depends on situation you are facing how you are going to fly, sometimes you fly low, sometimes you fly high, sometimes you do both... its not only low.

 

I agree. I don't actively fly low using any of the Russian fighters. If I am low, it's usually because I've been forced down there due to missile evasion or something. Whether I stay down there or not depends on the situation. I'm not the best Flanker pilot, but the plane isn't completely worthless. The T and ET missiles are nice weapons as well.

If FC had a modern 21st century Flanker then it would be a whole different ball game.

We can only hope this will happen in DCS World. I'd love to fly the Su-35, one of my all times favorites. Although, I wonder if a F-15A would be easier to model as potential stop gap.

[VAOZoky]

ED should introduce Su35 and Mig35 together with F16 and F18 asap

 

EDIT: same fidelity as FC3

Edited September 8, 2012 by VAO*Zoky

[Milene]

ED should introduce Su35 and Mig35 together with F16 and F18 asap

 

EDIT: same fidelity as FC3

 

Ehm no ! Rather SEe those birds being released with AFM And clickable as separate modules

[VAOZoky]

Ehm no ! Rather SEe those birds being released with AFM And clickable as separate modules

 

Im afraid that i wont live that long (im alredy 24 :() to see that happen

[EtherealN]

I'm sure you've heard of these things called "3rd party developers".

[GGTharos]

FC2 aside, RL tactics had them preferring medium-altitude tactics (ie. below the F-15's preferred high-altitude tactics). We can only make educated guesses at the reasons for this:

 

Engines more efficient/powerful at those altitudes, better maneuverability, easier to execute ant-radar tactics, look-up shots, etc. Generally speaking, Flankers and MiGs would have almost always been at a BVR range disadvantage. The E versions of their missiles weren't really meant to be used against fighters, although they could be, but apparently they don't perform much better than the non-E versions, while being much heavier. I wonder if the missile AFM will somehow represent this.

 

True, however we were discussing why flying low all the time would be the only way to go for Su's and MiG's in FC2.

Edited September 8, 2012 by GGTharos

[Pilotasso]

ED should introduce Su35 and Mig35 together with F16 and F18 asap

 

EDIT: same fidelity as FC3

 

I doubt the russians will let us take a peek on their best aircraft (Su-35). Mig-35 doesnt exist as an operational aircraft and it may never be. Its only a demonstrator since the current airframes were built over Mig-29M prototypes manufactured many years ago.

 

A Safer bet would be Mig-29SMT, which there are a few units actively flying today.

[NRG-Vampire]

pls ED tell me if we will see this beauty in FC3 ?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1292704&postcount=4207

 

cheers

 

no new F-16 model in FC3 :cry: (by BeachAV8R)

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3640512

[upupandaway]

Yeah, I also looked twice to see if anything had been improved.

Snif!:cry:

But I think it wasn´t stated anywhere that they had nothing like this in a later beta or final version of the game. The previous statements only referred to cockpits, or am I wrong? I have no earthly idea how much work an exterior model means compared t a pit...

[falcon_120]

Is this a glitch or bug?

http://www.mudspike.com/lomac/FC3-48.jpg

 

Or does the f-15 have JHMCS :)?

Just kidding,I suppose is the first option.

[Pilotasso]

Mini huds are an option since LOMAC and even earlier than that

[falcon_120]

Oh what a pity,I didn't remember that option,never use it

myself.

[upupandaway]

With the F-15 (and the other planes) there will now be a "modern" simplified radar in DCS World and with the MiG-21 another older complex radar plus the missile AFM...

The introduciton of these capabilities into the simulation engine makes it seem to me that DCS World is now principally ready for something like a new fighter or multirole module from ED (apart from betas, auto-updater and 3rd party projects etc.) :music_whistling:

It´s really cool to see all these things come together over time.

Edited September 8, 2012 by upupandaway

[EtherealN]

upupandaway, to avoid confusion:

 

SFM - "Simple/Standard" Flight Model

AFM - "Advanced" Flight Model

 

Radars are not covered by these terms and can cause confusion. Better to speak more directly about relative system model fidelity etcetera.

[upupandaway]

Thanks for the clarification. You´re right - it´s used incorrectly. I was however merely trying to illustrate the difference between a FC and a DCS avionics standard with regard to their complexity.

[104th_Cobra]

:sleep:081504Z SEP 12. I want my new shiny missiles AFM! :sleep:

 

My precious!

 

Edited September 8, 2012 by Xpto

[71st_Mastiff]

So shiny new AFM missiles effects does this mean a AIM9X? for the F-15? :thumbup:

[Kuky]

No, it means shiny new AFM for AIM-9M for the F-15C :)

[FLANKERATOR]

I don't agree, I flew Su-27 a lot (stopped few months ago flying FC2 altogether) and you wouldn't see me fly low all the time, it depends on situation you are facing how you are going to fly, sometimes you fly low, sometimes you fly high, sometimes you do both... its not only low.

 

This is what I meant, flying low is far from being the only alternative for Russian Fighters. First SARH missiles salvo is rarely meant to kill an ARH equipped adversary, rather work position for next waves.

 

FC2 aside, RL tactics had them preferring medium-altitude tactics (ie. below the F-15's preferred high-altitude tactics). We can only make educated guesses at the reasons for this:

 

Engines more efficient/powerful at those altitudes, better maneuverability, easier to execute ant-radar tactics, look-up shots, etc. Generally speaking, Flankers and MiGs would have almost always been at a BVR range disadvantage. The E versions of their missiles weren't really meant to be used against fighters, although they could be, but apparently they don't perform much better than the non-E versions, while being much heavier. I wonder if the missile AFM will somehow represent this.

 

GG leave the ER alone :P Flanker drivers look for a Russian ARH missile in FC3 not a down-graded Alamo-C :D

[Kuky]

in US aircraft you want to fight far away and not get close, in Russian aircraft you want to get close... up close R-27R should be beter then ER version as its smaller, lighter and therefore should be more manouverable missile, as GG keeps reminding

[FLANKERATOR]

in US aircraft you want to fight far away and not get close, in Russian aircraft you want to get close... up close R-27R should be beter then ER version as its smaller, lighter and therefore should be more manouverable missile, as GG keeps reminding

 

Yeah R-27ER to position, R-27R/T to kill.

[104th_Cobra]

That's why, normally, I prefer the MiG-29. With good acceleration, and already entering the merge fast, I can change altitude faster.

 

Going medium altitude to maximize the detection range on radar HI mode, while forcing a 1st shoot by the bandit. When in range to shoot, a fast climb and shooting 1k-2k above the bandit, while maintaining the bandit on the radar gimbal limit (on ILV mode) and forcing the enemy missile to drag and miss. All this with someone else doing splits or even hooks.

 

Sometimes there are a bunch of lonewolfs in the 51st TS willing to coordinate (Sgt Willzah & Co).

[tflash]

I still prefer the Su-27, but I play off-line: the problem there is not with the Su_27 and/or its missiles, but with the AI. You have two kinds: the opposing AI, who see and know everything and detect you from outer space, and your AI wingman, who are the most incompetent, clumsy failures you can imagine.

 

So, in 2x2 or 2x4, I have to do everything "miself and I"

 

I also use HI for detecting, MED before lock; R-27ER for forcing position and R-27ET for the kill, R-73 for self-defense when in the merge.

 

I do keep the Su-27 at high subsonic, and do not engage burner before the merge. You have tremendous manoevrability that way, allowing me to shake off any SAHM missile coming my way quite easily.

 

I do not really engage F-15's though, seems an unsmart idea :=)

[Kenan]

Hey Glowing Amraam, have you fallen a sleep or something? Where's the promo video?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D