Jump to content

Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion


tobaschi
 Share

Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion  

437 members have voted

  1. 1. Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

    • 599$ did not faze you, and YOU PRE-ORDER IT!
    • 599$ puts me into bankrupcy - I will not spend that kind of money - WILL NOT BUY
    • on the fence, will BUY LATER (at retail launch)


Recommended Posts

Not exactly that. He is referring to a mouse cursor that lives in the 3D world instead of the 2D screen space and when you move the cursor it moves inside the cockpit, not the screen.

 

I tried to emulate that idea controlling the mouse position with glovepie some time ago, but it was difficult to make it work accurately, and I was unable to find the maths to include the translation of the eyepoint, so only orientation was took into consideration. Still it was a lot easier to interact with the cockpit this way. I called it "panoramic mouse".

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=66500

 

I didn't include any "mouse dragging" because it was more intuitive knowing that the cursor will be wherever you left it. If you have to interact repeatedly with the same area of the cockpit you know the cursor will be there independently of where you look at between interactions. And when you want to move it from the left console to the right, you just keep moving the mouse until it appears on your view. But I use a trackball that makes those long cursor runs easier. I understand that with a regular mouse it can be a hassle.

 

I think this is a fantastic idea. I'd love to see it projected onto the cockpit mesh and left there. I'd like to to translate in screen space x-y but to stabilize and project onto the cockpit if this makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

im happy to hear you approve of the DK1 scale in DCS world.

i was disappointed to hear about the gaijan developers of warthunder who had to dumb down the cockpit so the user can see more outside of the cockpit to get situation awareness, because they said initially it felt like the player saw too much of the cockpit... but im real life that how it should be, i would think with older prop fighter planes, u are basically in a tub (war thunder is a WWII game)

 

maddabbo, where are you and when is your next demo? :D

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im happy to hear you approve of the DK1 scale in DCS world.

i was disappointed to hear about the gaijan developers of warthunder who had to dumb down the cockpit so the user can see more outside of the cockpit to get situation awareness, because they said initially it felt like the player saw too much of the cockpit... but im real life that how it should be, i would think with older prop fighter planes, u are basically in a tub (war thunder is a WWII game)

 

maddabbo, where are you and when is your next demo? :D

 

im in california not far from the DCS WWII's Ilya Shevchenko location.

 

I'm in Hollywood.

 

Next demo?

What do you want to see?

 

What aircraft?

What view?

What mode? (side by side like for rift?) or single side scaled?

 

If you have a rift you could be playing why need a demo? If you dont' then side by side would look wierd?

 

Want to see my head moving during demo?

 

What would you like to see happen in demo?

 

I won't have time until next week likely.

 

I have a party saturday where I'll be demoing the rift bigtime.

I have some tweaks to dcs I want to mess with but I could see setting up an external cam if you'd like to record me and then I could edit in a track playback. If i grab with fraps while playing I think the fps will stop. But I could record track and get any views after with my synced head movement. Is view of real me needed or you just want to see track?

 

-mikey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm VERY happy in DCS right now with the DK1.

 

So scale. The best way to describe it is that scale is exactly as you've seen it in the game without the rift on your monitor. Exactly the same. It depends on your zoom settings and your monitor size and distance. The size things you've seen that are messed up are renders where they are not properly scaling the view into the rift for various reasons. The best way to prove this is to take a screenshot of what I see or movie but you can just do it yourself.

scale dont mean anything if it "looks" like what i see on the monitor ...

 

have you flew a plane before?

scale will be hard to describe if you havent flew.. but im sure you have drove a car or rode a bike.

i have used Oculus rift DK1, and

i tried HL2, Strike suit zero, and the highly praised titans of space,

and I am sorry to say that the scale is TERRIBLE.

i had more expectations for strike suit zero, the cockpit had depth, but i felt like i was in a go cart rather than a space fighter ship.

for titans of space, the planets were huge, but for me the scale felt like being in a meusem type huge, rather than me being near planets.

Half life 2 was impressive, the 3d effect was crazy...especially in the cutscenes when u are interacting with the characters...

 

i wish i drove the buggyin HL2...

 

other than that, i know rift release will be impressive, but scale will be a big factor for me to make me feel like i am in the plane or not.. and that scale will be up to the hands of ED/DCS


Edited by hannibal

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to try to make a new camera.lua that uses the same camera and places it side by side. I'm hoping this new lua file will show up and render a camera once and place it side by side for the rift.

 

This would be much faster but 2D. This would solve any issues people are having with crosseyed issues and double fps. Headtracking could still be used.

 

If this works it might be a nice way to play until they release a native oculus demo.

 

Also this would solve cockpit clicking issues.

 

 

Anyone know if this is impossible before I mess with it?

 

-michael

 

I did it a few pages back.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1759390&postcount=327

 

From testing I came up with a similar eye_shift amount, the variable looks to be eye offset from center in meters. The default value of -0.06 or 60mm and by extention an IPD of 120mm looks to be completely wrong. I'm looking at both sides of the gun sight in the P-51. It just needs to be halved.

 

DCS users should adjust this variable according to their individual IPD, but I didn't see best results at my correct IPD offset, so YMMV until official support goes into the Beta. eye_shift=-0.032 is a good place to start.

 

Enjoy your Rift :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did it a few pages back.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1759390&postcount=327

 

From testing I came up with a similar eye_shift amount, the variable looks to be eye offset from center in meters. The default value of -0.06 or 60mm and by extention an IPD of 120mm looks to be completely wrong. I'm looking at both sides of the gun sight in the P-51. It just needs to be halved.

 

DCS users should adjust this variable according to their individual IPD, but I didn't see best results at my correct IPD offset, so YMMV until official support goes into the Beta. eye_shift=-0.032 is a good place to start.

 

Enjoy your Rift :thumbsup:

 

agreed but add to this that the dxview numbers must be 10x the initial amount not to be cross eyed in the distance.

 

from .01 to .1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

scale dont mean anything if it "looks" like what i see on the monitor ...

 

have you flew a plane before?

scale will be hard to describe if you havent flew.. but im sure you have drove a car or rode a bike.

i have used Oculus rift DK1, and

i tried HL2, Strike suit zero, and the highly praised titans of space,

and I am sorry to say that the scale is TERRIBLE.

i had more expectations for strike suit zero, the cockpit had depth, but i felt like i was in a go cart rather than a space fighter ship.

for titans of space, the planets were huge, but for me the scale felt like being in a meusem type huge, rather than me being near planets.

Half life 2 was impressive, the 3d effect was crazy...especially in the cutscenes when u are interacting with the characters...

 

i wish i drove the buggyin HL2...

 

other than that, i know rift release will be impressive, but scale will be a big factor for me to make me feel like i am in the plane or not.. and that scale will be up to the hands of ED/DCS

 

I think many issues you have with scale are due to the hacks we are making to support old games that are not created for the rift.

Content made correctly for the rift will not have this issue. Now what you think looks "correct" in the rift may be not be accurate. I have not flown planes personally but I do drive and even go to track days in my car. I also do lots of simulation. Any display setup correctly with good content can display correct scale.

 

For the rift this requires these things:

The content created for the world must be created all in the same units with no adjustments. The units don't matter as long is everything is accurately scaled and consistent in the world. This is especially true of cockpits and things we get close to in the world. Those must be the most accurate.

 

For a monitor it is easy to calculate the correct FOV knowing it's dimensions and where the user views it from. Then you must use that FOV in the game which the game can't know. You need to adjust the game for that and then scale would be correct on your 2d monitor. I've played iracing for years and you can setup the scale fov very easily to be reality and many do. Others like wide angle to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision on a monitor.

 

Here's where the rift shines. It's a known monitor, everyone gets the same size. It's always the same distance from the viewer wrapped around them. Everyones FOV is essentially know to the game maker and is the same. You simply need to adjust for the individuals IPD width and maybe for dominant eye and input there height and generic info like male/female they can add tweaks for neck movement but basically that's it. With your height and IPD looking through the rift would be scaled 1:1 with the real world like your there.

 

If we accurately laser scanned and built your sim cave and put your info in and rendered it on the rift you'd feel like you were in your cave in your cave. Stick you in a p-51 your are in there. Stick you in iracing you're there. Where it breaks is that you don't have zoom ability on your eyes. So they can default it to correct but they can also let you zoom in and out in a way you can't do without a telephoto lens. This can change your perception of scale like you mention. Old games not made for the rift have no correct FOV setting for the rift because that information wasnt' available so it is up to the user to set the correct FOV zoom level. Games made for the rift can either accurately represent scale or mess with it as they see fit. But in the end its up to the user to calibrate the experience correctly similar to calibrating your monitor to NTSC or getting accurate color out of your digital photo. Most won't care if its off a bit. Some content creators will use scale as a feature. A few users like you will demand accuracy. Good news is that DCS cares about accurate scale. Every model they make is very accurate. If you've seen the progress on the DCS WWII cockpits you'll see how much they love this stuff. So they will make it look right in the rift. Right now We just have to tweak it till we like it because we don't have what we need to make it "correct"

 

When it's native it will default to correct with your ability to zoom in and out as you see fit.

 

Does this make sense? The rift is like wearing a known monitor size and a known distance. It give the content creators a known FOV that everyone will experience so if they choose they can make everyone experience accuracy of scale every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have used Oculus rift DK1, and

i tried HL2, Strike suit zero, and the highly praised titans of space,

and I am sorry to say that the scale is TERRIBLE.

i had more expectations for strike suit zero, the cockpit had depth, but i felt like i was in a go cart rather than a space fighter ship.

for titans of space, the planets were huge, but for me the scale felt like being in a meusem type huge, rather than me being near planets.

Half life 2 was impressive, the 3d effect was crazy...especially in the cutscenes when u are interacting with the characters...

 

i wish i drove the buggyin HL2...

 

other than that, i know rift release will be impressive, but scale will be a big factor for me to make me feel like i am in the plane or not.. and that scale will be up to the hands of ED/DCS

Scale is all up to the developer to do it correctly. The SDK gives physical parameters of the Rift to adjust the game camera parameters. If the developer doesn't make good use of that data the scale will be off.

Warthunder and Strike Suit Zero are two examples of how to make it WRONG.

Titans of Space is a good example of CORRECT scale. If you look at your avatar it fits perfectly your own body, arms and legs whereas most demos are wrong and gives you a giant body that doesn't fit your own. Titans of Space warns the user several times that planets and stars are at 1:1million scale, so planet earth is roughly 12.5 meters in diameters and that's how it looks like. But many people is missing that warning and thinking that they should look like full sized planets and are disappointing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I understand rift support can be added to a game relatively easy,but it works best if it was built from the ground up with rift support. Very exciting days ahead!!
I used to think that it was easy, but after reading the Steam Dev Days reports and Michael Abrash's blog now I think there is more than just creating a stereo pair for the Rift and reading its head tracker data. Just the sub 20 ms latency is a challenge for any game engine, not to say the requirement for 95 fps to make proper use of the low persistence screen technique.

 

I guess that once the Rift is out, depending on the PC capabilities and game optimization for VR there will be a "high immersion" category and a "presence capable" category.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

played all night

 

I played DCS all night

 

Mostly using the P-51 ground attack which I cant seem to get enough of. I love the ballistic drop of the bullets as the fall to earth.

 

So I messed with FOV and stereo settings as well as benchmarked and recorded tracks.

 

Bad news is each cockpit seems to require tweaked stereo settings the gunsights dont work at all for me in the huey but look perfect in the p-51 with my settings.

 

My latest settings are .1 for dxview and .03335 for eye_shift.

 

The P-51 FOV to look pretty much for me like 1:1 I'm in the cockpit and can reach out and touch everything with my hands is a FOV of 60. I found the button to save that and so it's easy to tweak snap views now.

 

That solved just about everything I needed to make DCS awesome for my rift at tleast for the P-51. The only thing that's weird now is cockpit clicks dont register and you need to hunt so I've just been learning the keys. and using keyboard.

 

I want to try to learn the huey weapon systems tomorrow I'm dying to try the mini-gun with track IR and rift 3d. It definatley moved with my looking almost like the reflex sight was an HMD. : )

 

cant wait to try the door gunner too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Oculus');

Description = 'Configuration with 2 identical monitors side by side'

Viewports =

{

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 2;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

},

 

Right =

{

x = screen.width / 2;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 2;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

}

}

 

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

 

 

S.

 

So this is actually a bit different that what I was attempting to do.

I wanted to make DCS render once and use the view twice. I'm not sure why you'd want a left and right view without 3d since your taking the hit of rendering both. My lua edit was using Center twice and shifting it to split the screen. I wanted DCS to render once and use 2x. Left and Right would be two render passes. The Center Center trick does not work. It renders it once and moves it 2x and you only see it in the final position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sim developers need to talk to the developers of Outerra, their oculus support is spot on perfection, the scale is perfect, near and far is perfect, many purpose made oculus demos still make my eyes feel a tiny bit strained but outerra simply feels like I put on a pair of ski goggles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this make sense? The rift is like wearing a known monitor size and a known distance. It give the content creators a known FOV that everyone will experience so if they choose they can make everyone experience accuracy of scale every time.

 

thank you for taking an opportunity to answer my question.

yes, it does make sense.

if your experience with DCS makes you feel like you are in an aircraft, then ill am glad to hear that.

I Just hate to see what happened with Hawken, happen to DCS.. where all the models, terrain and objects have to be re-create to fit to scale...

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Titans of Space warns the user several times that planets and stars are at 1:1million scale, so planet earth is roughly 12.5 meters in diameters and that's how it looks like. But many people is missing that warning and thinking that they should look like full sized planets and are disappointing.

 

lol. yea, i must have missed it.

i got to try it for 15 mins because someone was nice to host a rift party.

on top of that, the IPD was not adjust for me (because of a few guests)

so that didnt give me the best experience out of oculus DK1...

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah,Outerra is outstanding with the rift,too bad I cant get my warthog throttle to work properly with it,its all over the place.

Intel i7 6700k OC 4.7ghz

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Motherboard

Zotac GTX980ti 6GB Amp Extreme

32 GB DDR4 3200 RAM

Oculus Rift CV1

Thrustmaster Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah,Outerra is outstanding with the rift,too bad I cant get my warthog throttle to work properly with it,its all over the place.

 

maybe outerra is limited to one joystick? (i am just guessing)

sometimes games only recognize one joystick...

if that is the case, then you have to use that PPJoyJoy utility...

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maybe outerra is limited to one joystick? (i am just guessing)

sometimes games only recognize one joystick...

if that is the case, then you have to use that PPJoyJoy utility...

 

My throttle works,it just constantly goes up and down wildly for no reason,its a known issue with Outerra I believe.

Intel i7 6700k OC 4.7ghz

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Motherboard

Zotac GTX980ti 6GB Amp Extreme

32 GB DDR4 3200 RAM

Oculus Rift CV1

Thrustmaster Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mouse in dcs with rift

 

Alright hear me out here guys. I was doing a little thinking. Regarding the implementation of Oculus into DCS I had an interesting idea. One of the issues I always had with track IR for example was the fact that I had to steady the view in order to click switches with the mouse in the cockpit effectively. This gave me quite a strain in my neck after a while. You have to hold your head as steady as you can. I was thinking Oculus is going to run into the same issue although maybe not quite pronounced since the view sensitivity will be 1:1 as opposed to the higher gains with trackIR. But still here's an idea that is more inline with reality. Instead of the mouse pointer position being defined by the view frame of reference that the player is looking at it should be "attached to the cockpit" or be part of the cockpit/world frame of reference. Another words, if you are flying the warthog and you want to tune radios on the left lower panel, you would turn your head to look at it and lets say the pointer is on that panel, when you move your head, the pointer does not move with your view, it stays wherever on that panel that you left it. You can therefore move the pointer using the mouse and it will not be affected by your view steadiness. Therefore you don't have to keep your head as steady because the pointer will not move with the view.

 

There's any issue that will arise with the solution. Lets say now you want to adjust the interior lighting on the right panel, you would therefore move your head to look at the right panel but since the mouse is fixed to the panel/cockpit frame of reference system instead of the view frame of reference, your mouse pointer will stay on the left side and disappear, you would have to move the mouse until you brought it over to the right panel. Here's a solution for this though. The view itself is rectangular parameter and the upper, lower, left and right parameters of the view can be boundaries, therefore you decide to move your head to look at panel on the other side, there can be logic that if you move the view so that the pointer touches the edge of the view screen it will drag the pointer with you so that you don't lose it. I think this will complement well to oculus as well as improve the current functionality of track IR. Less stiff necks please! It also would be more natural, kinda like your hands and fingers feeling and touching parts of the panel independent of your neck and head movement.

 

Let me know what you guys think. I can draw a picture if it isn't clear. I hope you guys agree that this would be an improvement and a good feature. It could even be switchable on and off depending on the preference of the player and what view device he is using. (hat switch, vs trackIR, vs oculus).

 

I really like these ideas as I'm currently having lots of trouble clicking in the cockpit using rift and stereo. Another great method is used in Lunar Flight where a cursor comes on boresighted to the center of view when you orient at any clickable switch. So you just look at the switch with your head and press the button.

 

That way no need to reach for a mouse. Just look at what you need to operate click and operate it. Thoughts? Lunar flight is a really great rift implementation.

 

-mikey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats a good idea,another good idea would be the way they use the aiming reticule in half-life2,where your nose controls where the reticule goes.Man I wish I knew how to code lol.

Intel i7 6700k OC 4.7ghz

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Motherboard

Zotac GTX980ti 6GB Amp Extreme

32 GB DDR4 3200 RAM

Oculus Rift CV1

Thrustmaster Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think with lunar flight you stare at a panel for a second then the cursor comes up,in half life its always there

Intel i7 6700k OC 4.7ghz

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Motherboard

Zotac GTX980ti 6GB Amp Extreme

32 GB DDR4 3200 RAM

Oculus Rift CV1

Thrustmaster Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today Occulus stop by to give me a personal demo of the Crystal Cove... very cool and very impressed.

So what are we waiting for,lets get this show on the road!!!:D

Intel i7 6700k OC 4.7ghz

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Motherboard

Zotac GTX980ti 6GB Amp Extreme

32 GB DDR4 3200 RAM

Oculus Rift CV1

Thrustmaster Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...