Infantry

[CyDoN]

I am a big fan of the DCS games especially the Black Shark.

From what I read, an Infantry feature will not be available in this game. Isn't it time for DCS to make this step, escpecially in this "combined" game, to introduce playable Infantry roles? I am pretty sure, this will make the game very instresting.

 

Thank you for your time.

Keep up the good work..

Edited July 8, 2012 by CyDoN

[159th_Falcon]

After Combined Arms is integrated and polished out this would indeed be a nice follow up.

Don't forget though that you would also need people playing it. Both friendly and Opfor so lets see,

5 Fighters

3 Strikers

3 Attack Helo's

5 Ground Vehicles

5 infrantry

 

that's 21 players per side, and there's not really a lot of anything,

so i think we need a bit of an community increase and a robust multiplayer

environment to make it all work together at the same time.

 

Once its there it sure would be fun though.

[Kenan]

I think Wags did mention FPS infantry as one of the possibilities in the future.

They can't just put every single feature in it at once, it's a huge task and they're doing it step by step..

[CyDoN]

so i think we need a bit of an community increase and a robust multiplayer

environment to make it all work together at the same time.

 

An infantry feature could attract less hardcore sim gamers (like ArmA or Operation Flashpoint players). They could contribute to the battlefield in their own way, like real life, its way easier to fire a fire-and-forget infantry weapon or an M16 than having all the cool instruments of an attack helicpoter or even driving a tank.

 

This also could make more types of engagements i.e. small uraban infantry engalgements with APCs, cars, infantry and light survalliance helicopters (like Combat Mission games). In genarl many other possibilites will be available with adding some simple animations, the DCS graphics are not the state of art but they are very good, they give you a very clear idea of what they want to picture.

 

Thank you for your time :)

[Ripcord]

I suppose playing the infantry role would be cool in a number of pretty specific scenarios, particularly where one would use air assault infantry or special forces.

 

However for me, the infantry would need to able to do a bit more than just stand there, shoot, move a little, lase targets and use radio comms. I would want some special forces capabilities and some ability to do other tasks that those in vehicles cannot. It wouldn't need to be like a full on first-person shooter, but I would want to be able to:

 

-- ride in and deploy from helicopters

-- radio for extraction, and get picked up from LZ in helicopters

-- jump out of aircraft as a paratrooper

-- RV with other figures, such as a downed pilot, or other infantry or insurgents.

-- plant explosive charges/demolition

-- gather intel

-- call in artillery fire

-- do everything that we see/hear an AI JTAC doing now, eg throw smoke, mark with WP, lase targets, etc.

 

Again, not looking for a bullsh*t Call of Duty game here, but kinda hoping that the infantry unit, when modelled and integrated, would be capable of a little more, particularly given their limited ability to move on foot.

[Wolfie]

Yeah, we have a long way to go to get to the level of Arma, but seeing all the problems (and hate, since BIS just ignores most complaints) if you build a better Arma, the community is sure to come over fast! What we need is better terrain ( it wouldn't take that much more than what we have now, you just need to introduce some random terrain variation, more vegetation, scattered houses, woodlands, etc. like in Arma. I know this terrain is a LOT bigger than Arma, but I feel its doable. Putting out an SDK and letting modders have a go at modeling and modding the terrain would help you 10 fold. All the templates for what you need are in games like Arma / Crysis and Infiltration. You just have to look at what they did. The graphics in Arma could be a lot better, but their physical terrain and layout ( hills, forests, etc. ) is pretty good!

 

The one mistake you need to avoid that Arma made is CLUNKINESS! This is the bane of Arma. The camera is attached to the skeleton and this makes the character walk around like Frankenstein's monster. Also, there is a 1/2 to 1 second delay in all movement commands which drives me nuts.

 

We're all looking for a better Arma, and DCS is supremely poised to take it!

[Wolfie]

An infantry feature could attract less hardcore sim gamers (like ArmA or Operation Flashpoint players) :)

 

Actually, were just as hardcore as DCS flight simmers. We just haven't been able to get the realistic weapons and vehicles that we want! Though ACE did come out with a somewhat realistic M119 105mm Arty with sights, sight sticks, shell loadout, and ballistics.

 

Part 1

 

Part 2

 

Part 3

 

Again, not looking for a bullsh*t Call of Duty game here...

 

None of us want that!

Edited July 8, 2012 by Wolfie

[CyDoN]

Actually, were just as hardcore as DCS flight simmers.

 

having spent thousands of hours in ArmA especially vanilla (tournaments, cups and competitive PvP) this game is simulating the foot-soldiers but in other aspects it's more like BF.

 

Let's not stray from the topic, DCS is a far more complicated game and infantry would give a very differant dynamic to the whole gameplay.

[Ripcord]

Then probably it makes sense that ED has decided not to try to model infantry units at this stage for Combined Arms.

 

Probably they would instead want to leave that task for later, and devote more energy/resources to it, for many of the reasons that we are citing in this thread.

[Wolfie]

having spent thousands of hours in ArmA especially vanilla (tournaments, cups and competitive PvP) this game is simulating the foot-soldiers but in other aspects it's more like BF.

 

Let's not stray from the topic, DCS is a far more complicated game and infantry would give a very differant dynamic to the whole gameplay.

 

Yes, Vanilla Arma is the problem. In order to get ANY kind of realism you have to download the mods, especially ACE and AI intelligence mods. I'm sure it will be a long time before we get realistic, hardcore infantry and weapons modules, but at least CA is a decent start.

[diveplane]

ai infantry modelled for now, i think in combined arms u have the ability to order ai squads for now.

[Pikey]

I've got to say I don't see it fitting right now and anytime soon. The sim centres around vehicles and aircraft with more value/effect per unit. Unless said infantry departed from any realism by becoming the 'James Bond' of the battlefield and jumping in literally every vehicle, plane and battleship there was going, It's not going to be an infantry simulator soon. Infantry have become more specialised over the years and their roles in Modern Warfare more about special roles in policing and house to house and less about direct mass conflict in large military encounters.

 

Given the level of detail required to make an infantry simulator, especially in urban areas, can anyone here see the changes that would be required for infantry to become appealing? Especially with A10's repeatedly gun running and as an infantry soldier you can't dent a thing with your 5.56 and can't get into the square 5 textured box of a house you are hiding behind?

 

The largest advantage of modern infantry is in guerilla warfare and ability to disappear in the urban or natural landscape. There's simply nowhere to hide in DCS as infantry yet which reduces the game to "Infantry vs tank"...not fun.

 

I think JTAC is fair and powerful, perhaps even mortars or AT players, but its not overall where I see the series developing.

[BRooDJeRo]

Indeed more online users are needed for full head-on battlemaps, but to atract these extra gaming dwellers you might need to be more mainstream or even above/side-ways mainstream.

Take in account that for 30 bucks you can actualy find games that do give you all these controlable entity options.

This doesnt mean ill have to run away to those 'communitys', however it does tell me that other developers are capable of putting it all on the table within a reasonable amount of time.

Im ok with the fact to have patience. My middle name is patience to be upmost honest. But i have a human timespan. Do you think you can pull it off within 50 years? :megalol:

[Pikey]

I think computers could feasibly provide the detail, but as for mapping an entire country to room level, i think that might take some time at least before procedurally generating cities! I think some sacrifices would have to be made towards realism.

[Wolfie]

What I see is literally DCS:"WORLD". Everything should be modularized. Now that we have all these third parties developing aircraft, we should think to the future about bringing in other third parties to develop the terrain, vehicles, weapons, and infantry.

First, of course, we should concentrate on getting the planes in, as this is what DCS first vision of this sim was. While this is happening, DCS can concentrate on building up a more realistic terrain as well ( trees, brush, more curved terrain as opposed to flat, railroads, houses, etc ). I think this is what is happening right now, so I'm not really pushing for more advanced vehicles or such. CA is good for now. Its all going to take a LOT of time. But when DCS and the community are comfortable with the planes that will come out and the land being good enough for an Arma style FPS, then DCS needs to start bringing in third party developers to work on realistic vehicles, weapons, and infantry to fill that land. This will also bring in a lot of FPS players that are keen on slower, realistic land warfare such as the Arma, Infiltration, and even Crysis 1 players ( I've played some tactical battles in Crysis with the right players :thumbup:).

 

In this "World" , we'll be able to whatever we want. FPS only, FPS and Flight Sim, Flight Sim only, or any combination in between. The whole "World" at war, or just some tiny flashpoint in a bordertown, with two armies battling it out ( with air support! :D :music_whistling:). I think Arma shows this world very well ( though of course its much smaller and non-realistic). We just need it larger and Realistic! Just look at the Chernarus mission Squad Leader, where you are ordered to clear the village of insurgents (well, I replaced them with Russian Armor and only gave my side an APC :music_whistling:). Its a hot fight, with me calling in Air Support at times. Now think if we built up some of the small villages, etc with better houses and maybe even a small nearby military base with bunkers, etc. to protect from lesser aircraft. This would be very interesting for combined FPS / Flight sim with both sides trying to get an advantage. We did this in the Infiltration map Road to Kandahar with two oposing forces trying to get to a vehicle wreck that held important papers and devices. Not only did we have to deal with each other (especially snipers on the opposing hills), the papers owners launched airstrikes every 10 minutes or so trying to blow up everything with iron bombs. Both sides have to take cover in ditches and caves in the area or be hit with fire and shrapnel. It was fun and very tactical.

 

I see the future of DCS not only as the next Arma, but the next Infiltration.

[Wolfie]

I think computers could feasibly provide the detail, but as for mapping an entire country to room level, i think that might take some time at least before procedurally generating cities! I think some sacrifices would have to be made towards realism.

 

That's why you don't do whole cities yet. The bigger towns in Arma are good enough for now. They just have to be fleshed out a little more. If you've ever played True Combat beta .45, they had some very good buildings and rooms in decent sized maps (City Heat, for instance) and that sims about 15 years old! Our newer computers have more than enough power to do small, realistic towns and bases with vast surrounding countrysides.

[Pikey]

I thought of a place 230x150km that could be used.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Falkland_Islands_topographic_map-en.svg

Population a bit over 3000

780 miles of roads in mainly single tracks

2000 4x4's

Simple airports, houses and vegetation, Climate like Scotland without the warm bits.

[mrniel]

As some of the previous answers hinted, only having a small number of slots available ( 32 ? ) and those also have to accomodate both airplanes tanks ect.

very few infantry would be available to play. So in effect, they would have no

impact on the battle, actually the more slots filled with infantry on the enemy side, the more likely you'r side is to win. Guess what have the greatest impact, a grunt or a Tank/airplane.

As noted before, the very scale of the battlefield kind of prevent those poor

grunts from ever seeing each other.

This isen't really a fps game. it's a high fidelity sim, and you better laserpoint some tanks instead of hanging around dooing nothing with a m16/ak47.

[Amuro]

... deleted...

 

We're all looking for a better Arma, and DCS is supremely poised to take it!

A better Arma will be ARMA3. Can't wait for the community alpha/beta next month.

[CyDoN]

As some of the previous answers hinted, only having a small number of slots available ( 32 ? ) and those also have to accomodate both airplanes tanks ect.

very few infantry would be available to play. So in effect, they would have no

impact on the battle, actually the more slots filled with infantry on the enemy side, the more likely you'r side is to win. Guess what have the greatest impact, a grunt or a Tank/airplane.

As noted before, the very scale of the battlefield kind of prevent those poor

grunts from ever seeing each other.

This isen't really a fps game. it's a high fidelity sim, and you better laserpoint some tanks instead of hanging around dooing nothing with a m16/ak47.

 

 

this could be possibly be shared the way it was in World in Conflict. I still support the idea that small arms and rocket launcher could provide very intresting missions they way there were in Combat Mission games.

[Teapot]

Actually, were just as hardcore as DCS flight simmers.

 

Having been an infantryman in my previous incarnation I can categorically say that you will NEVER have a *hardcore* infantry simulation until they invent the Holodeck. :D