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Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip


PeterP
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Hi guys great project!!

 

I have now two of these joysticks and am going to build one myself.

 

My first question is what have guys done about that bracket in North America? Doesn't look as if the German company sends those motor mounts to Canada.

 

 

Ideas?

 

 

Thanks !!

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I used flat aluminum and cut holes for motor shaft and bolts. You have to be careful not to use too long bolts. The idea is that gear teeth don't have play, but they also shouldn't be tight. For alignment of two joystick mechanisms I also used threaded rod in all 4 corners to connect them together besides motor mounts.

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How about replacing the pots with hall sensors, would that be fairly easy? I just bought some and magnets for my F16-FLCS which I've modded with a teensy to replace the circuit board but if I can use the sensors with my FFB2, I'll just put the F16 stick on that. Otherwise I might need to keep the F16 stick for planes and find another stick to use with the FFB2, as there's just not enough buttons or hats on the original to be useful.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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How about replacing the pots with hall sensors, would that be fairly easy?

 

Yes it is quite easy but there is no point in doing it. There has been some discussion about it earlier. MSFFB2 uses some sort of optical sensors instead of traditional pots and practically those are as good as hall sensors. So I'd say not worth the trouble.

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A good way to improve the frankenstick is to increase the force by doing the Whiplash's steroid upgrade to both units. I did it couple months ago and it was a very needed force upgrade. Here is the Whiplash's thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125281

 

I have around 30cm extension, the heavy Cougar grip on top of that and of course a hefty (1,8kg) counterweight so the force from double MSFFB2s was a bit weak. The steroid upgrade doubles the force from both units so there should be four times the original force now and it feels a lot better now.

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I used flat aluminum and cut holes for motor shaft and bolts. You have to be careful not to use too long bolts. The idea is that gear teeth don't have play, but they also shouldn't be tight. For alignment of two joystick mechanisms I also used threaded rod in all 4 corners to connect them together besides motor mounts.

 

 

 

Great thank you!~

 

Nervous and excited all at once. How hard can it be right? It's only been 20 years since high school shop class when I last vaguely remember soldering something.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Yes it is quite easy but there is no point in doing it. There has been some discussion about it earlier. MSFFB2 uses some sort of optical sensors instead of traditional pots and practically those are as good as hall sensors. So I'd say not worth the trouble.

OK, thanks. I'll save them for something else then, maybe I can build a collective sometime.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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  • 2 months later...

Hello I was wondering if you could help me with my MS FFB2 mod.

 

I'm not doing anything as grand as your mod, I'm grafting a CH combat stick onto a single MS FFB2.

 

You removed the IR sensor from the circuit and replaced it with a on/off switch. What wires go to the switch? :)

 

EDIT: Disregard it's the Grey and the white one.


Edited by Scarecrow
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  • 6 months later...

Hi im going to try doing this project.

 

I want to keep my warthog base in my chair, but i want to be able to use my warthog grip with a floormounted FFB2 in addition... (would never give up my warthog, yet at least..)

 

Because of this i cannot make a cut in my seat to make it fit better, and i'll have to do a bend. Im thinking of doing the 1 ohm mod to get a bit more power out of it and hopefully that should be fine.

 

I don't need any buttons, so i'll just leave that out to keep it cleaner, and im thinking of using an arduino MICRO and MMjoy to interact with my warthog stick.

 

I have never in my life done any modding like this or used an arduino, so it will be... interesting.. but i hope it will turn out good. (i do have some soldering experience though)

 

If you have any doupts/suggestions please tell me :)

 

Bought the first one today, found a good deal 35$

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  • 2 months later...

Slightly off topic but this seems like the right place for this anyway.

 

I attached a CH Fighterstick to my MSFFB2 and all is well except for one thing; using simFFB I can't get the "progressive trim" to work using the Fighterstick POV hat. Instantaneous trim works fine since you can configure the button but I guess the tool is hardcoded to use the sidewinder's pov hat... Is there a workaround somewhere or do I have to use my non-existant programming skills to try to solve this somehow? :)

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  • 1 month later...

I've managed to collect two red trigger FFB2s and one silver trigger now. I'd like to keep one of the red triggers unmodified, as they seem to be more sought after so I'll probably be able to get more for it if I decide to sell it one day and I think they're slightly improved from the original silver trigger so might be more reliable/longer-lasting and I want to be sure I have something to fall back on in case I have difficulties with this project.

 

Can I combine one red trigger and one silver trigger FFB2 to make this project or do I need to use two of the same model, in which case I'll have to keep looking for another silver trigger?

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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  • 2 months later...
I've managed to collect two red trigger FFB2s and one silver trigger now. I'd like to keep one of the red triggers unmodified, as they seem to be more sought after so I'll probably be able to get more for it if I decide to sell it one day and I think they're slightly improved from the original silver trigger so might be more reliable/longer-lasting and I want to be sure I have something to fall back on in case I have difficulties with this project.

 

Can I combine one red trigger and one silver trigger FFB2 to make this project or do I need to use two of the same model, in which case I'll have to keep looking for another silver trigger?

 

Hi! Not sure are you still waiting for answer on this one as it has been quite a while. I think there will be no problems using different models for the project as the two mechanisms will be only mechanically linked so if the mechanisms seem compatible it should work fine. I'd use the better red trigger model as the top mechanism.

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Thanks sydost. I actually managed to pick up another silver trigger very cheaply (it was packaged very badly, just wrapped in bubblewrap and paper and the USB plug was squashed but after I bent that back out it tested fine thankfully) so I'll probably just use the two silver triggers.

 

I might put the grips from the silver trigger models onto the red trigger ones, as the latter have that annoying sticky rubber coating.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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I checked first post because I remember that PeterP used red/silver combination for his build. There shouldn't be a problem.

 

I am still making mine from 2 red and fly with stock silver during building. Silver sometimes overheats and stops working, red unit never did that. Maybe something to think about, but these are old used joysticks so I wouldn't make any assumptions that silver are worse.

 

I am working on/off on my project for a few years now. I have it in a box similar to PeterP design. But I just recently ordered some electronic stuff to drive two systems from one board. I am planning to make a new topic when I finally do it. No real benefit in this, but it will look cleaner, and I will have spare red board because they will get rare to get over years.

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But I just recently ordered some electronic stuff to drive two systems from one board. I am planning to make a new topic when I finally do it. No real benefit in this, but it will look cleaner, and I will have spare red board because they will get rare to get over years.

 

Nice. I think the benefit is that then you can use the stick in other flight sims too with full potential. Also maybe get a slightly more refined FFB as there probably is some alignment mismatch between the top and bottom units. I have also been thinking about doing a mod to convert the boards to master and slave boards so I would only plug the master to the computer and then supply the slave board with the master's FFB control data. Well, honestly I cannot do it but my electronic engineer friend has an idea how to do it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Slightly off topic but this seems like the right place for this anyway.

 

I attached a CH Fighterstick to my MSFFB2 and all is well except for one thing; using simFFB I can't get the "progressive trim" to work using the Fighterstick POV hat. Instantaneous trim works fine since you can configure the button but I guess the tool is hardcoded to use the sidewinder's pov hat... Is there a workaround somewhere or do I have to use my non-existant programming skills to try to solve this somehow? :)

I'd imagine it's going off the hat on the sidewinder that is no longer connected. Maybe if you can route that to the sidewinder board?

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

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  • 3 months later...

Hey guys, thought I'd chime in with my project here.

 

Goal: force feedback stick with extention really strong FFB centering and p- 51 appropriate grip

 

The catch: I can't use a counterweight due to my motion simulator. Fortunately I don't intend to mount a super heavy grip.

 

The plan:

 

II have modified the original grip from my vkb gladiator pro to approximate the p- 51 grip This grip is plastic and light. I hope in the future to get an actual p- 51 grip, don't know the weight.

 

I have two silver trigger ffb2 sticks. I plan to do the resistor mod on at least one https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125281&page=1 and try it with my extension. I expect I won't be satisfied with that.

 

Next I plan to do the mod in this thread, with one FFB board having the resistor mod and one not. If that is still not enough FFB for me I can do the resistor mod to the second FFB board.

 

I don't feel I need more stick shake thanks to SimShaker with aura set's and soon a jetseat as well as my motion SIM but I like really strong forces otherwise for maximum realism.

 

Many thank you's to those who have gone before me.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Demo of my 6DOF Motion VR Sim:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Both of the PCB's are now in the hands of a friend of my brothers who is a true pro at soldering, for the tiny resistors to get put on the boards.

 

While that is happening I've disassembled the sticks and started looking at merging the two mechanisms together based on the OP but trying not to have to order those motor mounts.

 

My extension needs to be shortened and improved from when i was using just one stock FFB2, so that's taken apart as well while I decide the best way to build the extension.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Demo of my 6DOF Motion VR Sim:

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Update: Both of the PCB's are now in the hands of a friend of my brothers who is a true pro at soldering, for the tiny resistors to get put on the boards.

 

While that is happening I've disassembled the sticks and started looking at merging the two mechanisms together based on the OP but trying not to have to order those motor mounts.

 

My extension needs to be shortened and improved from when i was using just one stock FFB2, so that's taken apart as well while I decide the best way to build the extension.

 

I managed to merge two sticks without mounts.

i used the 4 pillar-like holes on the corners of the stick, bored them out a little and ran threaded rod thru both sticks with nuts to tighten them together. this required a little filing on the bottom 'feet' of the sticks where they come together, but was very solid!

I'm sorry i cant find my old pictures of this...

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  • 5 weeks later...

MSFFB2 drivers in embed in every Windows version.

 

No updated drivers is available, since Microsoft end production of this model in 2003.

 

Even if you find some kink for download will be drivers compatible only with old Windows Versions - 98 and previous.

 

If you are looking for software for make "joystick button press in keyboard press do make commands in games" Joy2Key, XPadder work fine and is easy to use.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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I managed to merge two sticks without mounts.

i used the 4 pillar-like holes on the corners of the stick, bored them out a little and ran threaded rod thru both sticks with nuts to tighten them together. this required a little filing on the bottom 'feet' of the sticks where they come together, but was very solid!

I'm sorry i cant find my old pictures of this...

 

Yep I did it without mounts too. My build merging two FFB2's both with the "give your FFB2 steroids" mod was very successful. =) I'm very happy with the feel.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Demo of my 6DOF Motion VR Sim:

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  • 2 months later...

This topic doesn't exactly need a bump, but I'd like to say I look forward to attempting this with VKB's new Modern combat grip upon its release. I snagged a MS FFB2 off ebay and it arrived today. I've been playing around with it and I'm disappointed FFB didn't really continue or come back.

 

The discussion and steps here have been a fascinating read, and I look forward to putting them into practice

Owned: Ryzen 3900x, MSI AMD 470x mobo, 32gb 3200MHz ram, Gtx 1660 Ti, 970 Evo Plus 500GB, MsFFB2, TIR5, TMWH+18c Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Buttkicker/SSA, WinWing F-18C . Next is VR for simpit

Art Of The Kill:

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  • 1 month later...

I already mentioned that I did this mod, and also did the "give your FFB2 steroids" mod increasing current to both FFB2 units.

 

Also I realized that a counterweight would not work for me since the stick is on a moving platform. When the platform tilts left for example, the weight of the stick AND the weight of the counterweight would now be pulling the stick even harder left! My solution was springs. There isn't enough spring tension to center the stick, just enough to counter most of the weight of the grip.

 

Here is my stick, without it's skin:

MuW8m0c.jpg


Edited by TripRodriguez

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Demo of my 6DOF Motion VR Sim:

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Here is my stick, without it's skin:

 

Looks great Trip, it's inspiring me to get on and do mine!

 

Is that a Warthog grip? Have you connected the buttons to the FFB circuitry? I think it uses a 6-pin PS2 connector so it must encode the signals and normally the Hog circuitry would decode them.

 

I'm planning to use a FLCS stick and I've already wired a Teensy up to it, so it will have it's own USB connection for the buttons. I'll have to work out how I'm going to run the USB cable through the pipes whilst still enabling the stick to be removed for transportation, to avoid it getting damaged. It would be ideal of course if I could make it so it can easily be swapped out for a Hog (or other) stick but that's probably going to be tricky, if not impossible, so I should just concentrate on getting it working with the FLCS.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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