Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

[ArtMan_NL]

Hi Artman, and everyone here,

 

I think i might have used a Hall sensor in my collective build, scavenged from my CH flightstick cannibalisation....

 

Try here,

 

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productListing.jsp?SKUS=2314588,2314589,2314590,2319659,2319660,2319661,2319662,2319663,2319665,2319666,2319667,2319668,2319669,2319670,2319671,2319672,2319673,2319674,2319675,2319677,2319678,2319679,2319680,2319681,2319682

 

Thanks mate, this is a great site. Which one did you buy and did you use them together with the Leo Bodnar board?

 

 

Prices seem reasonable? what gpu did you get and how is it? I thinking of upgrading to the 780ti....

 

I just bought a used Asus GTX680 with a silent cooler. It's a huge card and used 3 slots.... It is technically almost the same card as the new GTX770 but saved me more then 70 Euro.... Most of the time I hit 40~50 fps. Sometimes it drops to 30 fps. (And I'm using an AMD processor FX6350.)

 

 

Re: compatibility of dual ffb stick with other sims.... I for one don't have time or headspace for other sims any more. DCS gives me three great helos, A10, Su25, P51, and the catalogue is growing. That's enough for me!

 

 

 

+1 :) At this moment I'm giving all the FSX stuff away to some good friends.

[viper-lupi]

 

Thanks!!

In photo you can see the connector of lower ffb

Engine, i invert yellow with white and red with black

Pots i invert the three cable brown-red-orange with the other three yellow-azure-blue

Edited April 26, 2014 by viper-lupi

[Home Fries]

A thought on assigning two sets of motors to the same controller PCB:

 

Since the motors are to receive equal but opposite signals, would it be possible to somehow attach them both in parallel to the same PCB, and perhaps put relays in series (one for each lead) so that the connection doesn't require twice the current draw at the PCB? If this works, you could have your cake with DCS and eat it too with other sims.

 

EDIT: Just realized that a relay is out, as it would be a continuous signal and not a trigger going to the motors. However, if there is another way to boost the current without overheating the PCB, this might be the way to go.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Home Fries

[ArtMan_NL]

EDIT: Just realized that a relay is out, as it would be a continuous signal and not a trigger going to the motors. However, if there is another way to boost the current without overheating the PCB, this might be the way to go.

 

Exactly.

 

@Viper-lupi: yes I saw those pictures but I want pictures when these connectors are in their sockets. Then we can compare it exactly the situation with my pcb. It is weird situation because the colours are right. So I'm afraid the connector in socket situation is different.

 

Molevitch had the same problem and he solved it after seeing my pictures.

 

Just to be sure: you have only the lower msffb connected to your rig in this test situation?

Edited April 27, 2014 by ArtMan_NL

[viper-lupi]

Yes i connected only the lower ffb, i retested this morning but no change.

 

Edited April 27, 2014 by viper-lupi

[viper-lupi]

This is the photo of upper ffb

 

Edited April 27, 2014 by viper-lupi

[PeterP]

it has to be:

(from left to right)

Y: Yellow-White

X: Red-Black

 

>>>http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2052501#post2052501

 

Yes i connected only the lower ffb, i retested this morning but no change.

 

 

[ArtMan_NL]

Yes i connected only the lower ffb, i retested this morning but no change.

 

 

 

Please look at my picture: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2033680&postcount=167

 

and see the difference.

 

PeterP is right.

[viper-lupi]

THANK YOU!!!!!

Perfect, my mistake born because i check the cable with connector and no with the socket!

[ArtMan_NL]

Excellent! Please post you progress in chopper flying. :thumbup:

 

/Arthur

[viper-lupi]

Excellent! Please post you progress in chopper flying. :thumbup:

 

/Arthur

 

first world war Flying ;D I test now rise of flight.. i try with alimentation of two ffb and alternate alimentation at the upper and lower ffb!

EVERYTHING IS PERFECT! The difference in the force is incredible

[ArtMan_NL]

first world war Flying ;D I test now rise of flight.. i try with alimentation of two ffb and alternate alimentation at the upper and lower ffb!

EVERYTHING IS PERFECT! The difference in the force is incredible

 

 

So its working in RoF as well. Great! Happy flying.

[molevitch]

I had a quick tour for 2 hours on friday night with DCSW open beta 1.2.8. I seem to have much better fine control, and great responsiveness to perform some dramatic manoeuvres in the Huey and the Mi8. Have to try the Ka50 tonight.

 

I must also try the sling load routine in Huey, see how that feels.

 

Are you flying yet Artman?

[ArtMan_NL]

I had a quick tour for 2 hours on friday night with DCSW open beta 1.2.8. I seem to have much better fine control, and great responsiveness to perform some dramatic manoeuvres in the Huey and the Mi8. Have to try the Ka50 tonight.

 

I must also try the sling load routine in Huey, see how that feels.

 

Are you flying yet Artman?

 

Yesterday evening I installed 1.2.8 and did some flying. I´m still practising hoovering in the Huey but I find it extremely difficult. Maybe I have to do the Shark first but I thought the Huey is better for testing the modified stick. I got the feeling the potentiometers from the msffb are not very precise.

 

I was wondering if it should help to modify my project with hall censors. I´m thinking about mounting cylindrical hall censors and connect those to Leo Bodnar BU0836X 12 bit cicuitboard. Then assign the axis in Huey to the BU0836X X and Y. I think you get a far more precise control system because it is a 12 bit controller.

 

I don´t want to replace the potentiometers from the MSFFB because, according to PeterP experience, it does not make so much sense. Very logical because the MSFFB pcb is not 12 bit. That´s why I´m thinking about the BU0836X which I have already (for some years) in stock.

 

 

 

But I´m just thinking about it. First do some more practice in hovering.

[molevitch]

Yesterday evening I installed 1.2.8 and did some flying. I´m still practising hoovering in the Huey but I find it extremely difficult. Maybe I have to do the Shark first but I thought the Huey is better for testing the modified stick. I got the feeling the potentiometers from the msffb are not very precise.

 

I was wondering if it should help to modify my project with hall censors. I´m thinking about mounting cylindrical hall censors and connect those to Leo Bodnar BU0836X 12 bit cicuitboard. Then assign the axis in Huey to the BU0836X X and Y. I think you get a far more precise control system because it is a 12 bit controller.

 

I don´t want to replace the potentiometers from the MSFFB because, according to PeterP experience, it does not make so much sense. Very logical because the MSFFB pcb is not 12 bit. That´s why I´m thinking about the BU0836X which I have already (for some years) in stock.

 

 

 

But I´m just thinking about it. First do some more practice in hovering.

Last night I tried the external cargo mission for UH1, Dallas Training by Diveplane. 1 hour without any success taught me that I still have a lot to learn! Getting fine hover control is still a huge challenge. I am also finding that I still have a lot of wobble in the stick once trimmed. It does not hold in a convincing way. I may need to add weight to the counterweight, or look at some other kind of stiffening to the stick. Its like there is a weak deadzone which is spoiling the fine control needed for precise hover manoeuvres. I am wondering if parts of the FFB mechanisms need tightening up....

 

Its great when barrelling around the airfield or battlefield. I can dive and swoop and do dangerous turns without piling into the ground, but holding the chopper in one place at one height is really hard. I know it is in real life too, (I have once had controls of a Robinson), but I am asking myself whether my controls are letting me down, or whether I am just a rubbish pilot!

 

Interesting to hear about the result in RoF from Viper-Lupi. It is the only other Sim I still have on my hard-drive, but I have not run it for months.

[ArtMan_NL]

Hmm, it seems we have the same feeling. Did you try the shark already?

[Home Fries]

Guys,

 

I'm not sure how much the inherent difficulty of the Huey has to do with it (it has no dampeners), but it took me over three hours of stick time in the huey before I could properly hover. I can operate the Huey using a stock SWFFB2 (I haven't modded mine yet).

 

@ArtMan

 

With regards to the Hall sensors, is it possible to add some non-rotary Hall sensors (like PeterP did) and attach them to a second PCB (Cougar or Bodnar), and still keep the stock pots attached to the SWFFB2? This could allow you to have the best of both worlds.

[C6_Hellfrog]

I flew the k50 for 3 years regularly, then stopped sim because of lack of time for two years, then am comming back.

extension of stick is the main point for precision in control.

great and very precise with cougar or warthog in k50. I have lost a lot with my 2 years long break but can really fly the k50 with effectiveness without 2 hours of training.

It is something very different with the huey.

Still WIP with curves !

rudder has to be less sensitive than flat curve because it is too sensitive like that in my opinion

X and Y with K50 curves is not so bad but could be better. My K50 curves is too sensitive for the Huey.

and you have to trim it a bit backward for proper take off.

flying is easy with average speed. full speed is not so easy to gain, and there is a complete change in behaviour between average and low speed. That is a bad point for flight model because transition is a bit "brutal", not as are real aircrafts... in my opinion.

Even with long extension, I have time to practice to gain good control of the Huey. collective need very frequent adujustments and coordination and anticipation with rudder and stick. that is realistic but very sensitive in DCS. and need much time of practice to control it very well.

Huey is much lighter than K50 but powerfully powered and very reactive if not full loaded. Don't overcontrol it. be patient to let it respond to your inputs ...

my 2 cents.

 

and your feedback about FFB 2 motors mod not maintening stick with enough strong confirm my question below about some "elastic effect"... maybe...

is it like if you have some damper with FFB trim additionned to your inputs ? therefore your inpts can't be soo precise as if you hadn't FFB.

I "m used to use cougar or warthog script with lockaxis function to trim only X and Y and not rudder, for many years, and so that I don't have that feeling of struggling against FFB who dampers my inputs, that I was disapointed about with FFB alone (without extension).

 

my 2 cents.

[molevitch]

I think the Shark is inherently more stable with all the damper effects. I have tried it with my improved wiring mod, (ie corrected and now I can trim), but not in depth. For the past year or so since I made the mod, the Shark has been great, I just did not trim.... Tiring but not dreadful.

 

I am going to check all aspects of my modded cyclic, physical and calibration settings too. As I said, it feels a bit loose in the centre and seems to luck punch currently. The Huey is definitely much more sensitive, and it will take a while to get those tiny movements and reflexive responses tuned. Having flown a helicopter once, and only once, I know how sensitive these beasts are. They are not jet fighters nor stunt planes.

 

I found myself doing something strange with the Huey last night. I began to sort of stir the cyclic, like was stirring cup of coffee with a spoon.... Bizarrely this gave me better control. I am going to try an unmodded MSFFB stick again for comparison, and will report back.

[ArtMan_NL]

With regards to the Hall sensors, is it possible to add some non-rotary Hall sensors (like PeterP did) and attach them to a second PCB (Cougar or Bodnar), and still keep the stock pots attached to the SWFFB2? This could allow you to have the best of both worlds.

 

I did some primitive testing and I'm afraid it is a no go. The trim function is not working when changing potentiometers connected to leo's board and moving the msffb simultaneously.

 

extension of stick is the main point for precision in control.

Probably yes but the quality of the joystick as well of course. I think a 12 bit pcb in combination with Hall censor give you very precise control.

 

Still WIP with curves !

I read on different places on the forum no curves for MSFFB is better.

 

Thanks for your advice and 2ct's C6_Hellfrog.

 

I found myself doing something strange with the Huey last night. I began to sort of stir the cyclic, like was stirring cup of coffee with a spoon.... Bizarrely this gave me better control. I am going to try an unmodded MSFFB stick again for comparison, and will report back.

 

That's a coincidence :) Yesterday I have spoken the friend who did some flying on a chopper and he told me: Hoovering is all about stir in a pan of soup. You can't hold your stick on one place....

 

He told me as well the stick will feel loose around his centre that you just have trimmed.

 

Yesterday I did successfully hoover for about some minutes in the Huey.

 

 

Yesterday I made an important discovery. I changed the x + y axis to the other msffb in the DCS option tab. Then I had a much better control !!!

 

So as a follow-up to my guide: check with the control mini hud which msffb gives a smoother control on the diamond in de controls mini hud. First: the diamond was very jumpy, second: the diamond followed my stick with the smallest movements.

[molevitch]

I did some primitive testing and I'm afraid it is a no go. The trim function is not working when changing potentiometers connected to leo's board and moving the msffb simultaneously.

 

Probably yes but the quality of the joystick as well of course. I think a 12 bit pcb in combination with Hall censor give you very precise control.

 

 

I read on different places on the forum no curves for MSFFB is better.

 

Thanks for your advice and 2ct's C6_Hellfrog.

 

 

 

That's a coincidence :) Yesterday I have spoken the friend who did some flying on a chopper and he told me: Hoovering is all about stir in a pan of soup. You can't hold your stick on one place....

 

He told me as well the stick will feel loose around his centre that you just have trimmed.

 

Yesterday I did successfully hoover for about some minutes in the Huey.

 

 

Yesterday I made an important discovery. I changed the x + y axis to the other msffb in the DCS option tab. Then I had a much better control !!!

 

So as a follow-up to my guide: check with the control mini hud which msffb gives a smoother control on the diamond in de controls mini hud. First: the diamond was very jumpy, second: the diamond followed my stick with the smallest movements.

 

Yes, stirring the soup makes sense!!

 

I will try changing selected FFB in dcs options. That sounds like a good solution if it works.

[C6_Hellfrog]

did you have difference between X & Y moves on the two different MSFFB before assembling ? if not current feedback seems strange...

[ArtMan_NL]

did you have difference between X & Y moves on the two different MSFFB before assembling ? if not current feedback seems strange...

 

I didn't test it but technically spoken there will be always a little bit difference. Just think about those pots they have used and the motors. It's not the highest quality you can get so I expect there will be some difference in the movement.

[PeterP]

! make sure that you only use the potis from the upper msffb2 as input (as long you dont have hall sensors added).

[ArtMan_NL]

! make sure that you only use the potis from the upper msffb2 as input (as long you dont have hall sensors added).

 

Thanks. I will do.