dive angles and distances

[Mosley]

Sry if already asked.

 

Is there a formula/chart to figure out what my dive angle should be when i am at a certian distance and alt?

Since i cant see the target i just have to guess when to start the dive but maybe there is a better way.

 

For example 2miles at 10k ft would be 35 degree's down where 3 miles would be less.

 

Brings back highschool geometry nightmares.

[bluepilot76]

I just follow the target pipper on the HUD. If its too shallow pull up a bit and vice versa. If its going wrong pull off and start again. Not a big one doing for maths if I can avoid it.

[Eddie]

You're planning your attack backwards. You decide your attack profile, including dive angle if you're doing a HADB attack, before you engage. Then you close in on the target with roughly a 45 degree offset, once the target is at your 2 or 10 o'clock (depending on if you're offset to the left or right) you roll into a 100-120 degree bank and pull to bring your nose into the target with the desired dive angle.

 

The same method is used for high angle gun & rocket attacks. Never push the stick forward to dive onto the target, roll to place the lift vector on the target and then pull back.

 

EDIT: if it's helpful I'll make a Track/TacView video later.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Eddie

[bluepilot76]

Oh OK I better start trying that, and dust off the brain for some maths. Thanks

[Mule]

You're planning your attack backwards. You decide your attack profile, including dive angle if you're doing a HADB attack, before you engage. Then you close in on the target with roughly a 45 degree offset, once the target is at your 2 or 10 o'clock (depending on if you're offset to the left or right) you roll into a 100-120 degree bank and pull to bring your nose into the target with the desired dive angle.

 

The same method is used for high angle gun & rocket attacks. Never push the stick forward to dive onto the target, roll to place the lift vector on the target and then pull back.

 

EDIT: if it's helpful I'll make a Track/TacView video later.

 

That makes perfect sense and i understand the concept because in real life you don't want to be pulling negative g etc but how far out to do you start to do that stuff?

[Torment]

EDIT: if it's helpful I'll make a Track/TacView video later.

 

:thumbup: I'd like to see one if you're able to. I'm specifically looking to see a technique on offset range before you turn in. I've also been using the straight dive method using the TGP with the SPI line on the TVV. So I'll drive straight at the target keeping the line pointed at 6 o'clock and watch slant range on the TGP until it hits about 2.5 - 3 nm, then I'll start the dive for CCIP dumb bomb delivery. But if there's a more efficient/realistic method I'm all eyes/ears.

[159th_Falcon]

That makes perfect sense and i understand the concept because in real life you don't want to be pulling negative g etc but how far out to do you start to do that stuff?

Depends on Height and speed, what and when comes whit experience. (training)

[Mosley]

That makes sense and is sometimes how i do it but the question sill stands. Weither im nosing down or rolling into it my distance would affect the dive angle (i think). Im wanting to know how far out when i should start the dive so that i dont have to start shallow then nose dive so that in the end csnt hit my desired angle.

 

My flying is not that bad but i figured if i could come up with a general rule at certian alt's it woukd help.

 

For example at 10k ft 2.5 miles out i can start my 30% dive and be on the money. Almost like capturing an imaginary glide slope at 30 degrees.

[159th_Viper]

For me, X marks the spot. Fly the target so that it's in that position, roll in and you're good to go. Also enables you to visually keep the target in sight when commencing the engagement.

For steeper dive angles, just get the X closer to the plane.

[Mosley]

That works easier because no chart is required or numbers to remember. I guess i just need to get up there and work with it to figure out the different angles to make it steeper or shallower. Ty all

[Jona33]

Practice is the easiest way. I need to start trying that actually Eddie.

[Supersheep]

For steeper dive angles, just get the X closer to the plane.

 

 

I think I read this in Paulrikiii's really great and commendable guide for/from the 25th (please confirm/disprove if appropriate!):

Some advice says that to set your dive angle, roll 90 degrees (unloaded roll) plus the degrees you want to dive. Then pull Gs until you are aligned and roll back 90 degrees (unloaded roll again).

 

If my imagination hasn't failed me, that sounds quite right.

Not sure if this is what you said by "rolling in", though...?

 

 

 

Supersheep

[Eddie]

As promised, here's a short demo video showing a 30 degree High Altitude Dive Bomb attack on an artillery battery using 4 CBU-87s. Far from a perfect example, but demonstrates the principal.

 

My video editing skills aren't anywhere near as good as some out there, but hopefully it good enough. Best viewed in full HD on youtube itself.

 

 

The track itself is attached.

30HADB CBU-87.trk

[Rainmaker]

A lot of the RL stuff done from the CAS wheel is done using slant ranges and certain altitudes. I don't remember any numbers off hand, but I know in the AOR I have seen slant range charts stuck to the rails on the canopy.

[Mosley]

A lot of the RL stuff done from the CAS wheel is done using slant ranges and certain altitudes. I don't remember any numbers off hand, but I know in the AOR I have seen slant range charts stuck to the rails on the canopy.

 

Not sure exactly what you said there.

 

What is a cas wheel?

 

I was thinking of a triangle where you know your alt and distance, and using your degree line it shows the distance you need to be from the target for the dive angle to be closer than a wild guess. The degree line would change distance depending on desired dive angle and alt.

[Torment]

Not specific to the A-10 mind you but this shows an example with an AC-130.

 

[BlueRidgeDx]

All of this stuff is done using canopy references prior to roll-in, which is very difficult to replicate in the simulator.

 

For instance, a 45 DB pass would begin with the target sitting right on the canopy rail, while a 20 LALD pass would begin with the target a fist and a thumb (like giving a "thumbs-up") above the canopy rail.

 

We don't have virtual hands in the simulator to be able to use these kind of references, so you just have to find what works for you. Using other references like the canopy assist handle, or the round dust covers on the canopy bow are perfectly valid substitutes.

 

Besides, the actual tactics used for initial placement of the target; where to place the GBL during roll-in; and where to set Pipper while tracking are far more complex than most realize. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't even fly a recognizable 10 LAHD, or a 45 HADB pass. It's more of a "put the thing on the thing" and pickle.

 

I think there's an open source document written by a Hawg driver outlining tactics at RAF Bentwaters in the 80's. That will likely have the most detailed info available.

[Mosley]

So i found this website http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html and used a 30 degree angle on B and 10,000 on a. It calculated that at 30 degrees down i should be 3.28 miles away when i do the nose dive. Does this sound correct at all? Havent had a chance to test but i guess another question would be did i even use the triangle calculator correctly?

[Eddie]

So i found this website http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html and used a 30 degree angle on B and 10,000 on a. It calculated that at 30 degrees down i should be 3.28 miles away when i do the nose dive. Does this sound correct at all? Havent had a chance to test but i guess another question would be did i even use the triangle calculator correctly?

 

Sounds about right, but remember not to get too hung up on the numbers, visual references are always easier to use and, when you have things trying to kill you, more effective.

 

Also, don't forget you're not diving right at the target, you're diving toward an aim off point which will bring the CCIP pipper onto the target so the range you came up with in that calculation would be the range to the AOP and not the target itself.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Eddie

[bluepilot76]

New item for wishlist:

 

Virtual Crayon / marker, so you can draw / write on the canopy.

[kylania]

New item for wishlist:

 

Virtual Crayon / marker, so you can draw / write on the canopy.

 

Should be doable via a cockpit texture mod right?

[Tornado_Pilot]

Pretty much, but I think there is no need for such a texture mod, just to have visual reference.

[wess24m]

Should be doable via a cockpit texture mod right?

 

I can barely read my own hand writing when using a actual pen and paper, I'd hate to see it when using a mouse on a pitching rolling canopy. :)

[Mule]

I can barely read my own hand writing when using a actual pen and paper, I'd hate to see it when using a mouse on a pitching rolling canopy. :)

 

That made me laugh. :) same here.

[FreeFall]

I can barely read my own hand writing when using a actual pen and paper

 

So true. :helpsmilie::D