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How to get heading from previous waypoint to steering point.


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Hi all, i am new to this forum and this is in fact my first thread.

 

In the NAV training, at one point the narrator instructs the pilot to set the course knob to the bearing from WP3 (was previous set steerpoint) to WP4 (current steerpoint). But the narrator does not instruct HOW to get this heading (from the CDU).

 

I have done some serious (at least my belief) searching of how this should be done. However I come to the conclusion that the CDU in all cases is presenting (at best) the bearing from CURRENT A10 position to the steerpoint (in contradiction to what the manual says).

 

Now I can (easily) be wrong! So can someone explain to me what steps I should take, to get the bearing from previous (selected) waypoint to the (current) steerpoint?

 

Vuurflits.

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Steer Up (CDU, or keys in front of you) ? perhaps what you mean?

(readout on right bottom of HUD)

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In the NAV training, at one point the narrator instructs the pilot to set the course knob to the bearing from WP3 (was previous set steerpoint) to WP4 (current steerpoint).

rereading this more carefully

havent done the NAV training

this bearing would be the pink line on the TAD

so it appears the training want you to do sort of a GPS 'capture'

thru the Course dial?

 

perhaps set your Course to the guestimate of the pink line on the TAD

then leaf through all & any pages of the CDU

(leafing through the pages of the CDU is Very Confusing Business)

 

and find a comparable bearing that would reveal the goal of this exercise & the solution of your post?

 

perhaps :P

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Adding some more info...

 

The manual states on page 241

• TO TO - the commanded course is the great circle path from the designated From point, displayed on the CDU FROM Page, to the selected steerpoint.

 

also on same page:

In the DIRECT and TO TO steer modes, the course arrow on the HSI should be set to the course indicated on the ATTRIB Page, using the COURSE SET knob on the HSI, for a consistent HSI course deviation indicator, ADI bank steering bar, and CDU POS Page cross track deviation (CROSS TRK DEV) indications.

 

(with "great circle path" is meant the arc over the earth surface with center of earth being center of circle)

 

Now in the NAV training, one can set:

- TOTO (Nav/attributes)

- FROM (CDU/FROM page)

- TO (steerpoint)

 

and now the manual states that the presented bearing is the bearing from FROM to TO.

But this is not the case! The presented bearing is the great circle path from current A10 position to TO (steerpoint).

 

The actual point is, that if i want to be on (the save) track of the suggested bearing between WP3 and WP4 (which i likely did undershoot/overshoot at turn at WP3), i want to set the correct course on the HSI.

If it is not correct, the course deviation indicator will allign at some point, but not at correct bearing.

 

To Hender: I will check the offset page...

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I tried your post with intercepting a next leg

its way off / TO-FROM acts bizar

wont even point to the next waypoint after intercept (10-20dgs off)

might be a disconnect between CDU map coordinates

and the HSI (magnetic? projection error/other?)

 

there's a bug in ILS also

cant use ILS as supposed to

might be a related problem

that's a bug since beta, they're working on it

 

mission are way to short to have to use HSI 'by the book' to navigate

or after ample missions, when broken TAD after being hit perhaps:

you can recognize landmarks

request vectors by radio

or use compass or whatever that's is still working

have a peek at Map F10 when disoriented, and know the approx whereabouts of homebase

 

being able to recognize homebase by landmarks is a good exercise

so you can line up for landing, with half a plane

 

so rule of thumb is a. you have a proper plane and fly your mission TAD b. you have been hit and limp home, and use whatever works, and HSI is just a pain in the neck

 

2cts (untill fixed)


Edited by majapahit

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TX Majapahit for running this all through...!

 

I think i can cope with all suggested workarounds you mention.

 

It is just ... that i am kind a manual-freak. If manual/tutorial state this, and implementation shows something else, then clearly at least one of them must be wrong.

Seems atm that implementation at this point is incorrect.

 

Anyway tx again.

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Adding some more info...

 

The manual states on page 241

• TO TO - the commanded course is the great circle path from the designated From point, displayed on the CDU FROM Page, to the selected steerpoint.

 

also on same page:

In the DIRECT and TO TO steer modes, the course arrow on the HSI should be set to the course indicated on the ATTRIB Page, using the COURSE SET knob on the HSI, for a consistent HSI course deviation indicator, ADI bank steering bar, and CDU POS Page cross track deviation (CROSS TRK DEV) indications.

 

(with "great circle path" is meant the arc over the earth surface with center of earth being center of circle)

 

Now in the NAV training, one can set:

- TOTO (Nav/attributes)

- FROM (CDU/FROM page)

- TO (steerpoint)

 

and now the manual states that the presented bearing is the bearing from FROM to TO.

But this is not the case! The presented bearing is the great circle path from current A10 position to TO (steerpoint).

 

The actual point is, that if i want to be on (the save) track of the suggested bearing between WP3 and WP4 (which i likely did undershoot/overshoot at turn at WP3), i want to set the correct course on the HSI.

If it is not correct, the course deviation indicator will allign at some point, but not at correct bearing.

 

To Hender: I will check the offset page...

 

Per manual:

In the DIRECT and TO TO steer modes, the course arrow on the HSI should be set to the course indicated on the ATTRIB Page, using the COURSE SET knob on the HSI, for a consistent HSI course deviation indicator, ADI bank steering bar, and CDU POS Page cross track deviation (CROSS TRK DEV) indications.


Edited by Olgerd
found description in DCS manual

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It looks like one important detail was not reflected in the manual.

 

From -1:

 

'In the DIRECT

and TO TO steer modes, the course arrow on the HSI should

be set to the course indicated on the ATTRIB Page, using the

COURSE SET knob on the HSI, for a consistent HSI course deviation

indicator, ADI bank steering bar, and CDU POS Page

(Figure 1-90) cross track deviation (CROSS TRK DEV) indications.'

 

did you actually test this in the sim?

 

because I did a - shallow - test, and the HSI was all over the place / not reacting to CDU output changes / or erratic

 

I created fast missions in-the-air and added a waypoint so I can 'intercept' the next leg

 

even TO/FROM arrow indicator on HSI does unexpected thing, and even more strangely, will do different things in different missions/positions (sometimes its correct!, wow)

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did you actually test this in the sim?

 

because I did a - shallow - test, and the HSI was all over the place / not reacting to CDU output changes / or erratic

 

I created fast missions in-the-air and added a waypoint so I can 'intercept' the next leg

 

even TO/FROM arrow indicator on HSI does unexpected thing, and even more strangely, will do different things in different missions/positions (sometimes its correct!, wow)

 

According to the qutation from the manual, HSI course pointer does not 'react' on CDU changes at all. You set it manually in all cases.

I will test the course indicated on ATTRIB page again.


Edited by Olgerd

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К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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According to the qutation from the manual, HSI course pointer does not 'react' on CDU changes at all. You set it manually in all cases.

I will test the course indicated on ATTRIB page again.

I set HSI manually

rather easy, using TAD as guidline, one can check 'whereabouts' offset shows and how

after intercept hsi is OFF by 20dgs or something

TO/FROM - sometimes - points opposite, sometimes correct

whether and how CDI data is perhaps from a different map projection?

 

practically, when HSI cannot follow TAD (that should be Great Circle?)

there seems something wrong there

 

I cant believe this to be RL, but perhaps there is an explanation Magnetic/GPS

but when HSI would point 20dgs Off towards a waypoint/airfield CDU/TAD coordinates, seems a bit too much (and doesnt make sense either)?

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I set HSI manually

rather easy, using TAD as guidline, one can check 'whereabouts' offset shows and how

after intercept hsi is OFF by 20dgs or something

TO/FROM - sometimes - points opposite, sometimes correct

whether and how CDI data is perhaps from a different map projection?

 

practically, when HSI cannot follow TAD (that should be Great Circle?)

there seems something wrong there

 

I cant believe this to be RL, but perhaps there is an explanation Magnetic/GPS

but when HSI would point 20dgs Off towards a waypoint/airfield CDU/TAD coordinates, seems a bit too much (and doesnt make sense either)?

 

I just have checked the code, and you were correct - the computed course on ATTRIB was broken. It always displayed the course currently selected on HSI instead of the computed one. Expect fix in 1.1.1.0. And thanks for raising this issue. :thumbup:

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К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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ouf....

 

I am kind of happy to hear that Olgerd, because I was checking the same on my own and I was beginning to think that I didnt understand anything right... Looking foward to this correction!

 

If I may also suggest, I really think that the manual could give more practical exemples of the functionning and the use of those nav modes (To-To, To-From, etc... ) and how do they work practically.

 

thanks

 

Jean-Francois

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In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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If I may also suggest, I really think that the manual could give more practical exemples of the functionning and the use of those nav modes (To-To, To-From, etc... ) and how do they work practically.

Jean-Francois

TO-FROM etc. is part of IFR navigation, and I learned it first properly when joining a FSX virtual airliner & I had lo learn RL navigation

 

Flight navigation is very popular & extensively documented on the internet, its rather easy when you've gone thru the paces/figured it out, and quite overwhelming to start out

 

TO-TO etc is part of following the flightplan involving tuning into beacons, especially VOR radio beacons

the birth of GPS complicates things a bit, because now you have besides magnetic VOR etc-NAV, true GPS, it doubles your positioning methods

best way to learn is in FSX joining VATSIM, sort of 'semi real life flight plans & controllers Online'

you have to put in the hours to really figure it out (and fly beacon to beacon, and not GPS paths)

And, of course, you can hop in the Cessna of a friend of yours (as I did)

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Never found that, as we're using our flight-log generator which generates a flight plan with all courses. So as long as you follow the default flight plan, you just enter the courses into the HSI which are listed in that Excel document.

 

Nevertheless good to hear you guys found it and that it will be fixed!

 

S!

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If I may also suggest, I really think that the manual could give more practical exemples of the functionning and the use of those nav modes (To-To, To-From, etc... ) and how do they work practically.

 

I agree, it is a confusing subject as it is presented. Using the manual and trying things out only served to confuse me more.

 

Looking forward to a fix in game and in the manual!

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You've probably sorted this already, but i believe I covered this in my 'Course Deviation Indicator' navigation video, see my signature.

And welcome to the club!!

 

How did you cover a broken function?? :huh:

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While fixing the issue I've found that my initial statement about the function being completely broken was a bit exaggerated. The problem was that the attributes set in a waypoint in many cases were not accounted for steering properly. I.e. let's say in attributes the steering method was set to TO-TO, but TO-FROM was actually used.

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К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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where i find info on TO-TO TO-FROM Modes and how to change it?Sorry but now i don't have manual in hands, TAD Page or CDU one?THANKS

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where i find info on TO-TO TO-FROM Modes and how to change it?Sorry but now i don't have manual in hands, TAD Page or CDU one?THANKS

 

Per -1:

 

"There are two classes of attributes: waypoint specific and flight

plan specific. Waypoint specific attributes are used when the

AAP STEER PT rotary select knob is set to MISSION or

MARK. Flight plan specific attributes are used when the AAP

STEER PT rotary select knob is set to FLT PLAN. Waypoint

specific attributes can be uploaded from the DTS, entered using

the Attributes (ATTRIB) Page (if none have

been uploaded from the DTS or entered using the Waypoint

(WAYPT) Pages) or entered/modified using the WAYPT Page

2/2. Flight plan specific attributes can be uploaded

from the DTS, entered using the Attributes (ATTRIB) Page (if

none have been uploaded from the DTS), and/or entered/modified

using the Waypoint Attributes (WPTATT) Page."

 

"The attributes selected on the ATTRIB Page are applied to a

waypoint or when:

- The AAP STEER PT rotary select knob is set to MISSION

or MARK and waypoint specific attributes have not been

uploaded from the DTS or have not been assigned using

WAYPT Page 2/2.

- The AAP STEER PT rotary select knob is set to FLT PLAN

and flight plan specific attributes have not been uploaded

from the DTS or have not been assigned using WPTATT

Page.

- A waypoint is inserted into a flight plan using the FPBUILD

Page.

- A mark point is created."

 

"-� TO FROM - the commanded course is the great circle path

along the course entered via the HSI COURSE SET knob

to/from the selected steer point.

-� DIRECT - the commanded course is the great circle path

from the aircraft position at the time the DIRECT mode is

selected to the selected steer point. Subsequently, each time

a new steer point is selected, a course is computed from the

aircraft�s position at that instant to the new steer point.

-� TO TO - the commanded course is the great circle path from

the designated From point, displayed on the CDU FROM

Page (Figure 1-64), to the selected steer point.

�- SCS - the commanded course is a pilot selected course away

from the point where the aircraft was located at the time

SCS is selected."


Edited by Olgerd

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К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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  • 1 month later...
How did you cover a broken function?? :huh:

 

Was replying to the original post

 

....... But the narrator does not instruct HOW to get this heading (from the CDU)......

 

Answer to this is at 20:50 in the video.

 

You can see the TO-TO mode works correctly (as described in the manual) when set from the mission editor. (video 17:50 on). i.e, the CDI reflects how far you are away from the 'course line' irrespective of the course heading knob.

 

I too had difficulty changing modes from the CDU, but was able to demonstrate TO-TO mode by selecting the attributes at the mission editor stage. (after all, the subject for the video was the CDI, not CDU !!)

 

I too welcome the CDU functionality being improved in 1.10.

 

 

 


Edited by Fish

Fish's Flight Sim Videos

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  • 3 years later...
I just have checked the code, and you were correct - the computed course on ATTRIB was broken. It always displayed the course currently selected on HSI instead of the computed one. Expect fix in 1.1.1.0. And thanks for raising this issue. :thumbup:

 

Hi Olgred!

 

This was never fixed, right? Cause Im still missing the indication of where should I set the HSI knob to match the flight plan heading between waypoints, no matter how is the to-to option set to.

 

THanks!

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well, after continuing searching for a solution I run into this http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128787

 

and if you leave to from and activate scs and deactivate it right after, then you will get the so wanted desired course between waypoints!!!

 

 

hope this scs bug can be resolved soon.

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