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Upcoming 1.2 add-on Black Shark


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Cncerning the campaign and the mission editor; I read this on ubi forum which was an announce translation from MAKS airshow Simulator stand.

 

Play aspect, besides control of aircraft and helicopter,is represented by the large number of missions and campaigns, accompanied by the impressive videotapes. [/Quote]

 

Does this mean that we will never hava a dynmaic campaign ? I mean comme on. You can add as much good stuff as you want but without dynamic campaign it will become soon borning. When you create your own mission you knwo where the threats are and you know where the ennemy is. No spice no sweat, nothing which will give you thrill and which will make you happy if you return to your homebase safe.

 

I hate to say this but the success of Falcon 4.0 isn't only due to its advanced avionics but also to its Dynamic Campaign. That sim was released on 1999 and it's still in the spot.

 

So please include the dynamic campaign within next addon.

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So please include the dynamic campaign within next addon.

There won't be "next addon"... :icon_frow

It'll be the "next project". :icon_wink

Best Regards, Dmitry.

 

"Чтобы дойти до цели, надо прежде всего идти." © О. Бальзак


 
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They may be working on improving the mission editor to a point that it will be much more interesting than it currently is. F/A-18 didn't have a DC from what I understand, but the mission editor with its triggers and such apparently made it compelling enough. And regardless, they may be considering a DC for the successor.

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Well, anyone expecting to see a DC in 1.2 is setting himself up for disappointment IMHO. ED has made it pretty clear that a DC is something they are only planning on for their next stand-alone sim (well, FC and Black Shark are stand-alone in the CIS, but you get the idea).

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Yep. It is true.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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Hi all.

 

Edited:

You can add as much good stuff as you want but without dynamic campaign it will become soon borning. When you create your own mission you knwo where the threats are and you know where the ennemy is. No spice no sweat, nothing which will give you thrill and which will make you happy if you return to your homebase safe.

 

So please include the dynamic campaign within next addon.

 

You know, I have hear this just as much as the rest of you and I have to say this. A dynamic campaign is IMO just a little novelty(sorry, maybe I am being a little harsh). IIRC in F4 the briefing gave you all the info you needed(alt you needed to be at, speed, time on target, and what you were looking for) so was there really a surprise(the targets were/are there, so go get 'em) or anymore of a rush than LO/FC provides.

 

If anything, hearing the other packages comms and wishing you had that one last missile to help, or seeing that your sides armor is taking a beating and wishing you had taken a couple of mavs to perhaps turn the tide, now that had a some more immersion. But can't you do that with LO/FC? I mean everything but the comms? Set up a couple of extra flights or armor columns slugging it out, and the when you're done with your primary goto those areas and see whats up. If you survive your engagement, you maybe able to turn the tide of battle that way, if not...

 

-KILSEK

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Do you plan to implement this on F-15C? :)

 

We have plans to implement everything. Do you realize how many hundreds of years it should take? Just kidding... ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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You know, I have hear this just as much as the rest of you and I have to say this. A dynamic campaign is IMO just a little novelty(sorry, maybe I am being a little harsh). IIRC in F4 the briefing gave you all the info you needed(alt you needed to be at, speed, time on target, and what you were looking for) so was there really a surprise(the targets were/are there, so go get 'em) or anymore of a rush than LO/FC provides.

 

If anything, hearing the other packages comms and wishing you had that one last missile to help, or seeing that your sides armor is taking a beating and wishing you had taken a couple of mavs to perhaps turn the tide, now that had a some more immersion. But can't you do that with LO/FC? I mean everything but the comms? Set up a couple of extra flights or armor columns slugging it out, and the when you're done with your primary goto those areas and see whats up. If you survive your engagement, you maybe able to turn the tide of battle that way, if not...

 

-KILSEK

 

 

I've been muttering about this for a little while . . . .

 

All the dynamic campaign does is generate a mission to follow on from the next. That's fairly easy to do . . . . and has still taken 8 years to perfect for Falcon 4.

 

What Falcon 4 has always excelled at is creating immersion in theatre . . . . the sense that there are other packages out there, and being able to hear the comms going to and fro.

 

Lomac can have all the packages, but there's still the disassociation between them. At least two of the Su25T campaign missions I've played so far have had a strike package and a SEAD package (once on either side so far), and it kills the immersion not being able to hear or talk to the other package. You don't take out the SAM radars, they breeze in anyway and die. Unrealistic. You don't have any comms with the SEAD package, you don't know whether it's clear, you have to take the chance. Unrealistic.

 

 

Being able to generate different missions one after the other is indeed useful . . . . but it's not the biggest deal to me.

 

 

Maybe we'll manage more converts in years to come, who knows? ;)

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I've been muttering about this for a little while . . . .

 

All the dynamic campaign does is generate a mission to follow on from the next. That's fairly easy to do . . . . and has still taken 8 years to perfect for Falcon 4.

 

What Falcon 4 has always excelled at is creating immersion in theatre . . . . the sense that there are other packages out there, and being able to hear the comms going to and fro.

 

Lomac can have all the packages, but there's still the disassociation between them. At least two of the Su25T campaign missions I've played so far have had a strike package and a SEAD package (once on either side so far), and it kills the immersion not being able to hear or talk to the other package. You don't take out the SAM radars, they breeze in anyway and die. Unrealistic. You don't have any comms with the SEAD package, you don't know whether it's clear, you have to take the chance. Unrealistic.

 

 

Being able to generate different missions one after the other is indeed useful . . . . but it's not the biggest deal to me.

 

 

Maybe we'll manage more converts in years to come, who knows? ;)

 

 

You are quite wrong in your estimate on how the DC works, there is nothing random about it. It is all a preplanned strategy to defeat the computer. Packages are generated to attack targets of highest priority according to settings made by the user. As each target is designated and assigned to each package likewise the support elements and escrts are also generated from each squadron. It all boils down to the settings the user sets at the start of the campaign. They are the priorities that the computer selects for missions, also normal mission rotation is also included eg, CAP and escort for AWACs etc. There is hardly anything random about it.

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

[/sIGPIC]

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The closest thing you could get to a Active front-line is to add it in the editor. For me, I just put a row of SAMs/Shilkas/manpads that overlap an area that I consider a "front-line" I then add a reserve group(4 or 5 AFVs) behind the line of SAMs/Shilkas/manpads. It gives you a FLOT feel.

And then I start to build the mission

In one of my Campaign packs, I did that for some missions on the Kerch Peninsular.

ZoomBoy

My Flight Sims Page

- Link to My Blog - Sims and Things - DCS Stuff++

- Up-to-Speed Guides to the old Lockon A10A and Su-25T

- Some missions [needs update]

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I've been muttering about this for a little while . . . .

 

All the dynamic campaign does is generate a mission to follow on from the next. That's fairly easy to do . . . . and has still taken 8 years to perfect for Falcon 4.

 

What Falcon 4 has always excelled at is creating immersion in theatre . . . . the sense that there are other packages out there, and being able to hear the comms going to and fro.

 

Lomac can have all the packages, but there's still the disassociation between them. At least two of the Su25T campaign missions I've played so far have had a strike package and a SEAD package (once on either side so far), and it kills the immersion not being able to hear or talk to the other package. You don't take out the SAM radars, they breeze in anyway and die. Unrealistic. You don't have any comms with the SEAD package, you don't know whether it's clear, you have to take the chance. Unrealistic.

 

 

Being able to generate different missions one after the other is indeed useful . . . . but it's not the biggest deal to me.

 

 

Maybe we'll manage more converts in years to come, who knows? ;)

 

 

I completly agree with you. While a DC is a very nice thing to have, it seems generaly overrated to me. What realy matters for me is a living battlefield and interaction with your envoirment. And the best way to achieve this are good comms ( and therefore also AI ) and a good mission editor. Working with your AI wingman as a even teammember and not draging him behind like a towed decoy, coordinating with your fighter and SEAD escorts, getting controlled by GCI, AWACS, FAC and ATC, that are sort of things that will let you feel like you are only a small part of something bigger. This will let make a sterile world living. Jane's F/A-18 is the ultimate prove for me that you don't need a dynamic campaign for superiour gameplay.

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Yes you can have missions with extra units fighting in Lock on and you might even go watch the battle unfold. What's the point, however? How the fight goes has absolutely no relevance to anything. Not having a couple of extra mavs to assist the ground forces doesn't make difference to anything except perhaps your personal kill count. And at least for me that's not so much of a difference at all, especially since there are kills I HAVE to get or I'll be stuck in the mission until I manage to complete the objectives.

 

It would be very different if the ground battle actually had some meaning in the bigger picture. I might even have to divert from my original objectives to stop an enemy breakthrough. Interesting gameplay situations are born from a complex environment with lots of different factors influencing each other in a meaningful way. The overall radio silence is a big minus, but I don't think the interaction with the environment can be truly immersive if the only actually meaningful thing is the group of 4 tanks that must be destroyed in order to get to the next mission.

 

_________________________________________________________

Lock on MUST have toe-brake functionality with differential braking!

My blog full of incoherent ramblings on random subjects: https://anttiilomaki.wordpress.com/

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Hi all.

 

Edited:

 

 

You know, I have hear this just as much as the rest of you and I have to say this. A dynamic campaign is IMO just a little novelty(sorry, maybe I am being a little harsh). IIRC in F4 the briefing gave you all the info you needed(alt you needed to be at, speed, time on target, and what you were looking for) so was there really a surprise(the targets were/are there, so go get 'em) or anymore of a rush than LO/FC provides.

 

If anything, hearing the other packages comms and wishing you had that one last missile to help, or seeing that your sides armor is taking a beating and wishing you had taken a couple of mavs to perhaps turn the tide, now that had a some more immersion. But can't you do that with LO/FC? I mean everything but the comms? Set up a couple of extra flights or armor columns slugging it out, and the when you're done with your primary goto those areas and see whats up. If you survive your engagement, you maybe able to turn the tide of battle that way, if not...

 

-KILSEK

 

 

Ok. I wasn't a Falcon driver before the Allied Force was released. So let me tell you a little anecdote which happened to me recently.

 

Theater was Balkan. I chose mudmovers squadron. My squad was scrambled and the mission was created. A CAS one. We had to take out enemy tanks which were attacking NATO defense lines. We were given target coordinates and we took off. Once we arrived over the target area we saw enemy tanks destroyed. We thought that the mission was over but no.

 

We were redirected over another target area which was something like 5-10 km northwest out of our position. We moved there and we contacted FAC officer of the unit for active guiding since it was a complete mess down there. He guided us and we hit targets.

 

So you see what the Lockon lacks is all this live battlefield staff.

 

The mission is completely dynamic. All info you have before the mission in the briefing is just the intelligence estimation nothing more nothing less.

 

If Lockon could have this it will be the ultimate combat simulator on the market.

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Yes you can have missions with extra units fighting in Lock on and you might even go watch the battle unfold. What's the point, however? How the fight goes has absolutely no relevance to anything. Not having a couple of extra mavs to assist the ground forces doesn't make difference to anything except perhaps your personal kill count. And at least for me that's not so much of a difference at all, especially since there are kills I HAVE to get or I'll be stuck in the mission until I manage to complete the objectives.

 

It would be very different if the ground battle actually had some meaning in the bigger picture. I might even have to divert from my original objectives to stop an enemy breakthrough. Interesting gameplay situations are born from a complex environment with lots of different factors influencing each other in a meaningful way. The overall radio silence is a big minus, but I don't think the interaction with the environment can be truly immersive if the only actually meaningful thing is the group of 4 tanks that must be destroyed in order to get to the next mission.

 

 

The problem with that approach is that it is fairly unrealistic. Usualy combat pilots don't bring in some extra mavs to assist ground battles they stumbel across as a sidequest. Combat pilots get their orders to bomb target XYZ, they go in, do the job and go out. Then they fly the next mission they are assigned to. And pilots don't divert from their objective to stop some breaktrough unless ordered to to so ( wich can be scripted perfectly with a good editor ). A single pilot usualy has only a very small impact on a war and doesn't mean much for the big picture. A scripted campaign reflects that pretty good, as you only do the jobs you are assigned to.

 

I can understand your furstation when you have to refly a mission over and over again until you beat the objective, but the answer to this problem isn't necessery a dynamic campaign. This is a problem associated with Lock On and could be solved with a better scripted campaign system. See Jane's F/A-18, wich has a scripted campaign. You wont have to refly any mission in JF-18, you will progress to the next one even if you fail. And the folwn mission will influence the next one to a certain extend. Didn't sink that russian cruiser ? The next mission you have to defend against a ASM attack. Didn't protect that ELINT aircraft ? The next strike mission wont have as good stand off jammer support. You wont change the course of the war yourselfe, but you can infuence the battle to a realistic extend.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a good dynamic campaign too ! The problem is that they are difficult and expensive to make. And simply a DC wont necessary make good gameplay. Without good AI, comms and generaly interaction with your envoirment, even a complex DC could end being boring. On the other hand, good gameplay troughout the mission will be fun even with a scripted campaign and is considerable easier to make.

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Theater was Balkan. I chose mudmovers squadron. My squad was scrambled and the mission was created. A CAS one. We had to take out enemy tanks which were attacking NATO defense lines. We were given target coordinates and we took off. Once we arrived over the target area we saw enemy tanks destroyed. We thought that the mission was over but no.

 

We were redirected over another target area which was something like 5-10 km northwest out of our position. We moved there and we contacted FAC officer of the unit for active guiding since it was a complete mess down there. He guided us and we hit targets.

 

So you see what the Lockon lacks is all this live battlefield staff.

 

The mission is completely dynamic. All info you have before the mission in the briefing is just the intelligence estimation nothing more nothing less.

 

If Lockon could have this it will be the ultimate combat simulator on the market.

 

 

Nice mission you had there ! This is also a further prove for me that Falcon 4 isn't as good as it is because it has a dynamic campaign, but because it has such excellent battlefield imersion. You could build exactly the same mission by hand with a good editor and good AI/comms. What counts isn't who generated the mission ( DC or by hand ) but how it plays out.

 

What am wishing most for Lock Ons future is not a dynamic campaign, but dynamic missions.

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You are quite wrong in your estimate on how the DC works, there is nothing random about it. It is all a preplanned strategy to defeat the computer. Packages are generated to attack targets of highest priority according to settings made by the user. As each target is designated and assigned to each package likewise the support elements and escrts are also generated from each squadron. It all boils down to the settings the user sets at the start of the campaign. They are the priorities that the computer selects for missions, also normal mission rotation is also included eg, CAP and escort for AWACs etc. There is hardly anything random about it.

 

. . . . . I'm not sure I mentioned the word random in there, but your point is noted.

 

SwingKid's campaign generator would do something similar to that - generate packages to attack targets, move the front line - but would do nothing for the battlefield immersion.

 

I'd go for battlefield immersion before being able to generate the rolling war (which, just for the record, I would indeed love to see).

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Hi everybody!

Is 1.2 supposed to include FC (su-25t and season pack)?

 

and @ ED: will it still have starforce protection?

 

 

I would imagine it would include the Su25T - it would be too difficult otherwise.

 

 

And as regards Starforce . . . . the original Lomac release in Russia had Starforce, Flaming Cliffs in Russia had Starforce, and despite all the complaints, Lock On Gold, the Flaming Cliffs download, and the Flaming Cliffs CD from NaturalPoint all had Starforce.

I've heard of no reported security problems, and no reported cracks.

 

With that record . . . . . why change it?

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