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I would like to know the ranges of the Aim-120 and Aim-7 in FC. I know what they are supposed to be in actuality, but it seems that when I fire them, even at the ranges proposed in the manuals, they loose momentum and run out of steam before hitting their targets. (Usually less that 20km away). I am in BVR mode and am getting a solid lock. The AMRAAMs and Sparrows just dont seem to have the fuel to tag the bandits. Is there a trick to this? If so, please share.

 

-Hellcat

"When you're out of Tomcats, you're out of fighters!"

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. . . . . You're going to get a lecture on how variable missile range is, I can just see it coming ;)

 

 

It seemed a little short to me on the handful of occasions I've ever had cause to use either of the American missiles - but then I don't know what the ranges are "supposed" to be.

 

Certainly they *seem* short compared to the big-stick R27RE . . . .

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Oh boy. This could open a can....... The range, range due to altitude, missile burn time, inertia, et al has been discussed many times. It seems that in all version out currently that there is just a plain jane 16-18 mile limit. Time will tell.

Dusty Rhodes

 

Play HARD, Play FAIR, Play TO WIN

 

Win 7 Professional 64 Bit / Intel i7 4790 Devils Canyon, 4.0 GIG /ASUS Maximus VII Formula Motherboard/ ASUS GTX 1080 8 GB/ 32 Gigs of RAM / Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / TrackIR 5 / 2 Cougar MFD's / Saitek Combat Pedals/ DSD Button Box FLT-1

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The ranges change with the alttiude and speed of the shooter and the target.

 

I will consider only a head-on engagement, I think it's pretty obvious that anything but head-on will decrease the range.

 

 

So, you're going mach 1 at 50000', and so if your target. You'll probably hit him if you launch at 40nm (even farther) and he doesn't maneuver.

On the other hand, if he maneuvers, your range is decreased to maybe 15nm.

 

Now you're at 20000, doing 500kts, so is your target ... your max rangeis about 20nm.

 

At 5000', 500kts, your max range is about 10nm ... maybe a bit more...

 

But your 'no escape zone' (ie the range at which the enemy cannot evade the missile by just turning around and running) is about 6nm.

 

This is all due to the density of the air, and so on and so forth.

 

Now a few thigns aren't modelled in LOMAC: The speed of the shooter doesn't really matter (missile accelerate too fast)

 

Low to High shots in LOMAC have nearly equal range (the shouldn't ... Low to High shots , with about 20000' or more of altitude separation should have 1/3rd or 1/4th of the same high to low shot range)

 

 

Shooting at a retreating target (you're on his 6) has essentially 1/3 or less the range of the head-on shot in practice, so if you're getting max range of 10nm head-on against your target, in a tailchase your max range would be around 3nm.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Low to High shots in LOMAC have nearly equal range (the shouldn't ... Low to High shots , with about 20000' or more of altitude separation should have 1/3rd or 1/4th of the same high to low shot range)

 

Any idea if this will get addressed in LO? Or do we have to wait for the 'next project' ... its just that I'm in my 40's and would like to see this before I die!

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Any idea if this will get addressed in LO? Or do we have to wait for the 'next project' ... its just that I'm in my 40's and would like to see this before I die!

 

LMAO that would be nice if it was a suprise add-in in the up coming patch.

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The ranges change with the alttiude and speed of the shooter and the target.

 

I will consider only a head-on engagement, I think it's pretty obvious that anything but head-on will decrease the range.

 

 

So, you're going mach 1 at 50000', and so if your target. You'll probably hit him if you launch at 40nm (even farther) and he doesn't maneuver.

On the other hand, if he maneuvers, your range is decreased to maybe 15nm.

 

Now you're at 20000, doing 500kts, so is your target ... your max rangeis about 20nm.

 

At 5000', 500kts, your max range is about 10nm ... maybe a bit more...

 

But your 'no escape zone' (ie the range at which the enemy cannot evade the missile by just turning around and running) is about 6nm.

 

This is all due to the density of the air, and so on and so forth.

 

Now a few thigns aren't modelled in LOMAC: The speed of the shooter doesn't really matter (missile accelerate too fast)

 

Low to High shots in LOMAC have nearly equal range (the shouldn't ... Low to High shots , with about 20000' or more of altitude separation should have 1/3rd or 1/4th of the same high to low shot range)

 

 

Shooting at a retreating target (you're on his 6) has essentially 1/3 or less the range of the head-on shot in practice, so if you're getting max range of 10nm head-on against your target, in a tailchase your max range would be around 3nm.

 

sorry GGt,

my english is not so good.

if i undertood you listed a series of possibility changing altitude of launcher and of target. then you said :"Low to High shots in LOMAC have nearly equal range ", what do you mean? do you mean that,in lomac, (1)the altitude of launcher and of target (if similar) doesn't influence the range? (2)or what? if yes(1) then i ask to you what are the parameters that influence the missile ranges??...only the relative guideline and intensity of speed vectors?

thx

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This had been brought up before but is really annoying.

When you get past 36000 (aprox.) feet, your Rmax zone stops calculating increased missile range due to higher alltitude. It shows the same range on 50000 feet which is obviously much higher. It is possible to take head on shot from 40-50 nm with Amraam, as GGTharos said but the hud will show you 28nm as max. range. Why is that? Is it going to be fixed?

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nannosk, if we have:

 

1. Shooting missile from 5000' altitude to 40000' altitude

 

2. Shooting missile from 40000' altitude to 5000' altitude

 

In LOMAC, the range of shots 1 and 2 is nearly equal.

 

Realistically, shot 1 should have 1/3 to 1/4 the range of shot 2.

 

Ie. if shot 2 has a max range of 40nm, shot 1 would have a max range of about 8-9nm, as wel ballistic calculations.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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nannosk, if we have:

 

1. Shooting missile from 5000' altitude to 40000' altitude

 

2. Shooting missile from 40000' altitude to 5000' altitude

 

In LOMAC, the range of shots 1 and 2 is nearly equal.

 

Realistically, shot 1 should have 1/3 to 1/4 the range of shot 2.

 

Ie. if shot 2 has a max range of 40nm, shot 1 would have a max range of about 8-9nm, as wel ballistic calculations.

 

thx GGtharos,

now it's really clear to me.

It's not a very good news....this means that in lomac is useless to go to high altitude indeed it's just dangerous because if i go to high altitude i am more visible from bandit's radar but i don't get more range. do you know if ED minds to fix this bug?

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nannosk, if we have:

 

1. Shooting missile from 5000' altitude to 40000' altitude

 

2. Shooting missile from 40000' altitude to 5000' altitude

 

In LOMAC, the range of shots 1 and 2 is nearly equal.

 

Realistically, shot 1 should have 1/3 to 1/4 the range of shot 2.

 

Ie. if shot 2 has a max range of 40nm, shot 1 would have a max range of about 8-9nm, as wel ballistic calculations.

 

And that reinforces what I said, it appears that the Max range is set to a fixed range, no matter the altitude.

 

Also the missile engine burn time is too short, which effects range and inertia. All have been issue's in all versions and patched versions in as far as the AMRAAM is concerned.

Dusty Rhodes

 

Play HARD, Play FAIR, Play TO WIN

 

Win 7 Professional 64 Bit / Intel i7 4790 Devils Canyon, 4.0 GIG /ASUS Maximus VII Formula Motherboard/ ASUS GTX 1080 8 GB/ 32 Gigs of RAM / Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / TrackIR 5 / 2 Cougar MFD's / Saitek Combat Pedals/ DSD Button Box FLT-1

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nannosk, if we have:

 

1. Shooting missile from 5000' altitude to 40000' altitude

 

2. Shooting missile from 40000' altitude to 5000' altitude

 

In LOMAC, the range of shots 1 and 2 is nearly equal.

 

Realistically, shot 1 should have 1/3 to 1/4 the range of shot 2.

 

Ie. if shot 2 has a max range of 40nm, shot 1 would have a max range of about 8-9nm, as wel ballistic calculations.

 

Ooops ... this really is a problem. 40nm for scenario 1 is absolutely absurd. I already found it so strange that everyone is flying so low in Lockon, where in reality Eagle drivers would be at 30.000 feet and well above, praying like an Eagle on targets below.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Okay, I think I need to clear a few things up again.

 

First of all, there are some things in LOMAC missile physics that are not modelled.

Secondly, a 40k to 5k shot will probably not give you a 40nm range, and a 5k to 40k won't do so either for sure ... i said they're -nearly- equal, but they're not ... you still get more range high-low, just not anywhere near as much as you should. This affect ALL LOMAC missiles, not just the 120.

 

 

Now, the rocket burn time: It's not too short, it's what it is on the real things. THat's all missiles are, unpowered, guided high-speed sticks that are acceelrated to some speed initially by a rocket motor which itself has some limitations.

 

Now, about the low-flyers: It's still advantegeous to fly high, you just have ot know how to use your perch, which is not necessarily an easy thing to do. In addition with lofting missiles your missiles WILL travel quite far adn maintain quite a bit of energy over distance, unlike low-high shots, which will on average have 10-20% less energy (except it really should be more like 70% less).

 

I really can't explain all of it in words.

 

The short if it is, the difference between low-high and high-low is there, it can be used, but it isn't as prominent as it should be from the sources that I have seen.

 

I'm sure ED has plans to fix this, but like always, these are subject to having time left over from the main focus of their projects, in this case the Ka-50 for 1.2.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Now, about the low-flyers: It's still advantegeous to fly high, you just have ot know how to use your perch, which is not necessarily an easy thing to do. In addition with lofting missiles your missiles WILL travel quite far adn maintain quite a bit of energy over distance, unlike low-high shots, which will on average have 10-20% less energy (except it really should be more like 70% less).

 

 

I'm sure ED has plans to fix this, but like always, these are subject to having time left over from the main focus of their projects, in this case the Ka-50 for 1.2.

 

sorry GGtharos i surely have been approximate saying that there is not advantage going high altitude, infact in this way we get a good supply of energy. however an approximation of 200%-300% (20% compared with 70%), and perhaps more, becomes (imho) an error that change radically the sense of BVR.

i dislike this thing because i have always thought that among good aspects of lomac there was the physics........

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The missiles don't have very advanced physics right now, but maybe in the future. They work on for the time being though, and as long as they get corected eventually what we have right now is actually not too bad.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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GG is right.

We have a plan to develop new physics for missiles with all the real physics and aerodynamics laws for new project. We have some first positive experiments with nonguided weapons – bombs, rockets and gun’s shells. If all our plans will come true, we'll include Advanced Weapon Model (though we haven’t the name of that technology as yet) in 1.2. But I won’t promise it because it depends of more factors in our team.

Я не смотрю телевизор

ЧИЖ

 

Вакансии в ED

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I hope we see them, because this is one of the top 3 issues I have with the sim. I am just disappointed it has to wait for the new project to see the light of day.

Dusty Rhodes

 

Play HARD, Play FAIR, Play TO WIN

 

Win 7 Professional 64 Bit / Intel i7 4790 Devils Canyon, 4.0 GIG /ASUS Maximus VII Formula Motherboard/ ASUS GTX 1080 8 GB/ 32 Gigs of RAM / Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / TrackIR 5 / 2 Cougar MFD's / Saitek Combat Pedals/ DSD Button Box FLT-1

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If all our plans will come true, we'll include Advanced Weapon Model (though we haven’t the name of that technology as yet) in 1.2. But I won’t promise it because it depends of more factors in our team.

 

1.2 ... that would be just great ... keeping fingers crossed!

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I think the new missile seeker logic that was reported on will make BVR interesting again. ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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GG is right.

We have a plan to develop new physics for missiles with all the real physics and aerodynamics laws for new project. We have some first positive experiments with nonguided weapons – bombs, rockets and gun’s shells. If all our plans will come true, we'll include Advanced Weapon Model (though we haven’t the name of that technology as yet) in 1.2. But I won’t promise it because it depends of more factors in our team.

 

Hello Chizh,

i should like to make to you a question, out of curiosity: to create lomac world can you use an universal equations system (for example rigid body dynamics immersed in fluids(air)) that could be apllied to every "fling body" simply changing specific parameters (for example thrust, altitude, drag, weight and others) or you must use different models (more or less simplified) for every different typology of fling body?

i make to you this question because i ask to myself if it's possible to create simulated reality, ruled from a unique whole of laws, or, for reasons of knowledge or for reasons of computation's power, you MUST use different individual models to simulate different typology of fling body...

Thanks

P.S. i hope i have been able to explain myself, unfortunately my english isn't so good

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