Bouddha Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 It is not necessary to know if you are at 3'000m over your target. Go the higher you can fire go down... for 1.11 when aim120 goes active you receive nothing ? anyway, I dont need to use ECM with my SU27 so this is not a problem. And for me to know that the F15 has lock me when in 1vs1 is not very important as I can always assume he has... More important is to know when a missile is fired at me and where it is. By the way, when you say that you assume that a missile is on you when you see ECM, does it mean that you go directely defensive ?! If yes, I dont think this is the best way. But maybe I'm wrong. I always like this type of disscussions. best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 for 1.11 when aim120 goes active you receive nothing ? I should think that when it goes active it will be through burnthough range and thus you will get a warning anyway, I dont need to use ECM with my SU27 so this is not a problem. Good man. :D VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-GOYA Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 By the way, when you say that you assume that a missile is on you when you see ECM, does it mean that you go directely defensive ?! If yes, I dont think this is the best way. Turn ECM off, turn ECM on. Wax on, Wax off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Nope, actually, if you maddog from a large distance, or so much as lose the datalink on a long shot, you've likely just wasted that missile. This pretty much ought to put an end to 20nm split-S shots. By my experience (or maybe I'm doing it wrong) it doesn't work in closer ranges either.... 12nm or less (even had did it with a target at 3nm just 3 days ago)... STT mode.. 120 enabled.... target locked. I'm at their six.... I fire... wait for a few secs (up to 10sec max), turn off radar , and vector hard away from target (f-pole i think this is called). No joy every time. it seems like everytime I use the 120 without maintaining a target lock for the duration of the missle flight time, it will miss everytime. Keeping a contant target lock is nuts, because now everyone on the other team now tracks me easily and shoots me down easily. Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 You're not doing an F-Pole ... and tail on chases require you to be at 4nm or LESS, or the missile will never reach. As for maintaining lock, use TWS. If they force you into STT, so be it - use the A-Pole to gain an advantage. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cali Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I have 99% against F15 with IA on the higest level. against human it is a little different but the barrel rol and also the fact that you can know the distance between the aim120 and your aicraft on your RWR still gives you excellente chances ! regards Do you play in hyperlobby? and yes IA and human pilots do things very differently. A good 15 pilot will nail you with a 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabog32_zillion Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Interesting to see how fast information gets lost in OT discussion the higher the number of pages in a thread... The gimbal limits of the AIM-120 and R-77 have been reduced and the jamming issues have been corrected also. It is still possible, but less likely for the ARH missiles to acquire targets different than the ones they are intended to if you lose the datalink OR if there is a target very close to your intended target that can confuse the seeker. We have several tracks of 120's losing datalink, going nearly 80 degrees off initially locked target and acquiring a friendly... Therefore i really appreciate the reduction of gimbal limits 5- Lock ranges when in Close Air Combat (CAC) modes for Russian aircraft have been decreased to 10 km. How far was the CAC distance for russians before ? 15 km ? 9- If radar lock is broken, Semi Active Radar Homing (SARH) missile seekers will direct their antenna to the last point before lock was broken will reacquire the target if radar lock is reestablished within 5-degrees of that point. Does that mean my R27 will have an even better chance of hitting, if radar lock was broken shortly by wax on wax off the the ECM, or the target passes a high mountain shortly as long it is within a 5 degree cone after reacquiring. ? 4- The F-15C can no longer identify a jamming target as friendly or enemy. Looking forward to a new dimension the eagle drivers FF... :) Zillion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 The CAC for Russian fighters was closer to 40km before in some cases. Your R27 won't do so well if lock is proken and the fighter leaves it FoV before you reacquire. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabog32_zillion Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 what was the FoV limit for successful reacquire before 1.11 ? Was there any ? Was it the full gimbal limit ? Ok... i think it was the full gimbal limit, just before it didn't put the antenna to the last known position. I think(&hope) 5 degrees off last known position is better than before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I can't give you numbers, but the general idea is that now the seeker has an instantaneous FoV which has to be moved around, instead of instantly sensing all the volume around it ... the gimabals, though reduced, don't change anything in this respect - ie. the gimbals did not repair the malfunctions, rather the introduction of the iFoV did ... since the missile can only see a few degrees looking in any direction, if the target's not right there, the missile is lost. 5 deg depends on the distance, too: 5 deg at 10km will take the plane much longer to cross than 5deg at 1km ... so coordinate your dodge accordingly ;) Anyway, I suggest you do your math on it ... 1MOA=29cm at 1km. A degree has 60MOA ... so at 1km a 1deg FoV is 17.4m across. A 5 deg FoV at 1km is 87m across. A 5 deg FoV at 10km is 870m across ... even at 10km you can leave the iFov very quickly, since your aircraft is likely moving at speeds on the order of 200m/s. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabog32_zillion Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 thx GG... nice explanation, and ur right the the introduction of the missile antenna (missile FoV) is a neat and decent step. About, the math, disregarding I didn't quite follow, I would still say... That was theoretical.... :) You didn't take the aspect angle into account or at least didnt mention it... Like a hot or cold target does't move much, whereas a flanking or even worse beaming target leaves the the 5° degrees much faster... regards Zillion Edit: So maybe a beaming defensive has finally become the most efficient, as it should be. Because until now the cold defensive unless fired in no escape, prooved to be the safest in LOMAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Yes you are correct, aspect plays a big role, but I think as you say, beaming will now play more of a role. We have found, Phil and I, just now, that SARH will almost never reacquire an aircraft after lock is lost with proper evasive maneuvers. Well, an AIM-7 anyway. This requires that the lock is lost at short range, but nevertheless works. Against heaters, IRCM is VERY effective. PULL OUT OF BURNER and make sure your flares come out JUST before you think he's going to fire, and you'll be watching missiles whipping past you. I will note that also SARH appear more susceptible to chaff than ARH ... ARH can be a real handful to deal with. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouddha Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Quote: Originally Posted by Bouddha I have 99% against F15 with IA on the higest level. against human it is a little different but the barrel rol and also the fact that you can know the distance between the aim120 and your aicraft on your RWR still gives you excellente chances ! regards Do you play in hyperlobby? and yes IA and human pilots do things very differently. A good 15 pilot will nail you with a 120. Well, I usually dont fly on hyperlobby. I fly with the 7thEN squadron (french). But I'm open to test ! :) in the past there was something like 77th server that was always open for everyone. I cant find it anymore. :( was it here ?! http://666th.com/go.asp regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4c САВО СРПСКИ Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 you probably wanted to talk about the S77th-dedicated server, wich is almost allways available on HL - Lockon. VVS504, 169th Panthers and Jabog are also providing mp servers wich are also most of the time available on HL - Lockon, wich is a high contribution to the community. Most of the people are flying on those servers. =4c= SERBIAN VIRTUAL FIGHTERS SQUADRON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouddha Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 08-17-2005 12:49 PM =4c= САВО СРПСКИ you probably wanted to talk about the S77th-dedicated server, wich is almost allways available on HL - Lockon. VVS504, 169th Panthers and Jabog are also providing mp servers wich are also most of the time available on HL - Lockon, wich is a high contribution to the community. Most of the people are flying on those servers. Is there an IP address still available ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 "5- Lock ranges when in Close Air Combat (CAC) modes for Russian aircraft have been decreased to 10 km."?? My god!Some pilot can see target aircraft at this distance in clear weather. == Welcome to 3GO Cyber Air Force == http://bbs.3gofly.com/en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Is there an IP address still available ? Thanks Get Hyperlobby, it will do the rest for you. VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 "5- Lock ranges when in Close Air Combat (CAC) modes for Russian aircraft have been decreased to 10 km."?? My god!Some pilot can see target aircraft at this distance in clear weather. So what? Close Air Combat Modes. Get it? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 You're not doing an F-Pole ... and tail on chases require you to be at 4nm or LESS, or the missile will never reach. As for maintaining lock, use TWS. If they force you into STT, so be it - use the A-Pole to gain an advantage. Hi GG... I have tried using just TWS and it appears all can see and target me at will... (tws is supposed to be a passive system as I understand it). A-Pole? never understood that one....I saw a explaintion on frugals forums and was thoroughly confused by all the "-pole" types.... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 You don't understand it then ;) TWS isn't passive, it simply doesn't go STT - it's a software tracking mode designed to update target position for the missile without going to STT, so they get no lock/launch warning until the missile goes active. They still get the search warning. F-Pole is done with SARH, you hold the target on the gimbals until the missile hits (or misses) A-Pole is done with ARH, and you hold the lock ONLY as long as it takes for the missile to go active. They two techniques are identical except for the moment that you can disengage - ARH gives you a few extra seconds of breathing room. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 GGtharos, you guys at the testers teams should verify the following: 1-if radar lock is lost for the russian birds when rolling (the laucher aircraft not the target) 2-sometimes I get an ECM burn through at over 50 miles when flying the f15! 3-swiching ECM on and off produces some strange results to a plane trying to target it, there are people, I dont know how they do it, they simply become invisible, I suspect due to this cause, added with certain roll angles. Very weird. 4-how good terrain masking precision is, because right now I can lock through mountains. 5-I have gotten killed by missiles I thought to have gone dead due to timout, after the laucher aircraft had been killed like 20 seconds ago. Feels like I runned over air mines, missiles that had expended their kinetic energy that hapen to miracously find their way to my flight path. 6-F-15 radar goes dead after I had swiched on and off, between modes and ranges below 80 miles, during frantic battles. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 GGtharos, you guys at the testers teams should verify the following: 3-swiching ECM on and off produces some strange results to a plane trying to target it, there are people, I dont know how they do it, they simply become invisible, I suspect due to this cause, added with certain roll angles. Very weird. Ive always suspected that because there is a delay when someone puts ecm on (on your scope) between the display of contact and display of strobes, that people rapidly press 'e' and vanish becoming unlockable. Or I may just lose em to the beam and scanning the wrong altitude. VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 No we shouldn't, but I'll answer anyway: 1. No. Roll no longer drops the lock, as of 1.1 AFAIK 2. No, you don't ;) 3. That's a potential issue - try reducing scan azimuth when this happens. 4. Only against jamming targets, and that has been fixed, that was posted by Matt. 5. This will no longer be the case unless you're being hunted by IR/ARH 6. I've never experienced this, but obviously a number of people have - I wonder what the connection is ... we've never been able to find the common factor. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVK_Fox Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Plese check this: Sometimes i fly on HL and before weeks i was shoot down by NOTHING. Something hit me, and on the top of the screen was: "SOMEONE kills SVK_FOX by " - clear place, what is that?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I think it happens when you are hit by a proximity detonation, but I'm not sure. I have seen it happen before. You are in fact killed by a missile, but for some reason the name isn't there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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