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VTAI: F-16C Fighting Falcon


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What is your particular problem? How to get a live HUD working and get the cockpit in the game?

 

I would suggest the use of DirectX overlays rendering over the LockOn image. This is the same technique FRAPS uses for its overlays. I'm prepared to have a tinker next week as I've been dying for an F-16 for ages.

 

Essentially you render the F-16 in an external program and then 'paste' the image into LockOn using an overlay. The external program uses the LUA export mechanism for communication with Lockon. In this way any cockpit can be injected into LockOn. Clickability would be tricky but should be possible.

 

Well yes, the only main problem infront of this project is how to make avionics systems as realistic as possible. We don't have any experience about directx overlay, at least i dont.:) But i will research some information about this technique. Also clickable cockpit. Its another story.

 

Ok, I love this. Some question:

What block? From what country? What year? are you guys aiming for. This things all matter in term of what avionics and systems you are trying to modeled, the look of the F-16 and so on. F-16C covers a lot of very different aircraft. (block 25 to 52+ and every country will have different capabilities and most will have different equipment, etc)

 

This is F-16CJ (Block 50) And it will probably include U.S Avionics or Turkish avionics as an alternative. But we want to make one straight F-16. Something like international. Not just one country's F-16.


Edited by Alper22

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This is F-16CJ (Block 50) And it will probably include U.S Avionics or Turkish avionics as an alternative. But we want to make one straight F-16. Something like international. Not just one country's F-16.

 

Well, there is a problems. Not all block 50 have the same avionics, nor the same systems nor capabilities. If you want accuracy, again, you would have to be specific of the country, year and block.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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For example

2011_SLAMER_07243_web_1269967624_1710.jpg

Note the tail chute

Tail sensors

sensor under the intake

No JHMCS sensor

Also notice the year matters look at the HUD on that photo and compare it to this one

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/3557/

or this one

elite2006_22_f-16c.jpg

TUAF_F16_92-0019Tail.jpg

 

Compared to

090204-F-6986C-003.JPG

110428-F-DP668-077.JPG

 

Lets compare it to U.S.A.F. block 40

090505-F-9876D-048.JPG

090505-F-8957M-067.jpg


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Year matters

F-16A

Dsc07939k.jpg

 

F-16A

32280_23661.jpg


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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look at this block 50

img_18_19567_3?1217235152.jpg

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Every F-16 is different

F-16-11.jpg

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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excellent job....

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1 Some block 30 and above use this intake as well, not just blk 50 ( related to GE engine)

 

Correct, but the model here is definitely not a Block 30 if you look at the other tell-tale signs (such as the position of the landing lights on the nose gear door etc.). As I already mentioned, and was confirmed, it's a Block 50. Now, I agree the modelers need to narrow down their year and country a bit... There are so many variations of Vipers that if you try to be generic in your modeling you'll just end up being inaccurate and it won't match any version.

 

2 The speed brakes will open at 60 with LG down. With LG down and no weight on wheels (WOW) on the

nose landing gear (NLG) they should only open to 43 degrees but the pilot can hold the switch to open and the speed brakes will open (seen many damaged speed brakes)

 

Correct again, however, my main point was that the model appears to have brakes that open beyond >60 degrees.

 

4 The antenna should be a bit bigger.

 

Cross reference the angle on it too against the dorsal fin.

 

6 Look and pic one, not sure but looks like it is there.

 

It would appear so, but it's impossible to tell if it has the right size/shape w/o a bigger screenshot.

 

7 This is only with WOW, on the air they are flush

 

Actually, in the air they deploy in varying degrees based on data. The entire range of the LEFs are -2-to-25 degrees though.


Edited by LawnDart

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I'm so predictable... I see F-16 and always bite:joystick:

 

And who says there isn't enough interest in the community for another F-16 sim (just because it's already been done yada yada).:megalol:

 

C'mon ED... make it happen!!! (You know every other F4 fanatic will still buy it regardless, which is $$ in the bank). :smilewink:

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What is your particular problem? How to get a live HUD working and get the cockpit in the game?

 

I would suggest the use of DirectX overlays rendering over the LockOn image. This is the same technique FRAPS uses for its overlays. I'm prepared to have a tinker next week as I've been dying for an F-16 for ages.

 

Essentially you render the F-16 in an external program and then 'paste' the image into LockOn using an overlay. The external program uses the LUA export mechanism for communication with Lockon. In this way any cockpit can be injected into LockOn. Clickability would be tricky but should be possible.

 

 

That is vastly oversimplifying the task, I think. :smilewink: D3D Hooks are notably unstable and difficult to work with. You're more or less talking about creating a program that can draw, light, and manipulate a 3d cockpit model that syncs up with the LockOn world, draws displays, and all while maintaining stability and a reasonable resource draw.

 

Kegetys/Finnish Jebus' ability to do what you see in that video is absolutely monumental. (Which is why I suffer from periodic bouts of depression because he hasn't released whatever magic program he wrote to do that. :D)

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1) Correct, but the model here is definitely not a Block 30 if you look at the other tell-tale signs (such as the position of the landing lights on the nose gear door etc.). As I already mentioned, and was confirmed, it's a Block 50. Now, I agree the modelers need to narrow down their year and country a bit... There are so many variations of Vipers that if you try to be generic in your modeling you'll just end up being inaccurate and it won't match any version.

2) Actually, in the air they deploy in varying degrees based on data. The entire range of the LEFs are -2-to-25 degrees though.

 

1) You have to be careful with tell-tale signs, I been proven wrong many time because of them. There are A models with light on the nose, bird slicers IFF, etc. I look for the engine first but even then, Tulsa ANG are the only ones I have ever seen with block 42 and -229

2) Its part of the ops check, it should not go to -2 until WOW. I will check the T.O. tho, it been a while since I read the GS


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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That is vastly oversimplifying the task, I think. :smilewink: D3D Hooks are notably unstable and difficult to work with. You're more or less talking about creating a program that can draw, light, and manipulate a 3d cockpit model that syncs up with the LockOn world, draws displays, and all while maintaining stability and a reasonable resource draw.

 

Kegetys/Finnish Jebus' ability to do what you see in that video is absolutely monumental. (Which is why I suffer from periodic bouts of depression because he hasn't released whatever magic program he wrote to do that. :D)

 

I think you're right. Even we able to make a new software which is include synchronized hud with FC2 then radar and other avionics is also have to be done. We start this project like a year ago and we are able to make a completely new cockpit without HUD or other avionics(Such as B-52, B-2, SR-71). We are really step on that problem and make experiments about that. Yet we cannot find any solution within the legal lines of the game. And the last chance is the ask for help from the ED for this plane. The only way to complete the cockpit is possible with their helps and im asking for some tips from them.:). I know that people is love this plane and its deserves to make one of them for our lovely flight sim.:smilewink: Without the working cockpit, we're not thinking to release only plane itself. There is a lot of 3d planes and its not gonna be one of them.


Edited by Alper22

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And who says there isn't enough interest in the community for another F-16 sim (just because it's already been done yada yada).:megalol:

 

C'mon ED... make it happen!!! (You know every other F4 fanatic will still buy it regardless, which is $$ in the bank). :smilewink:

 

Sorry I don't know what you meant, I was just saying that if I see F-16 on the title I have to go read the thread, even on the Russian side...which is a problem since I can't read nor write Cyrillic :joystick:

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I think you're right. Even we able to make a new software which is include synchronized hud with FC2 then radar and other avionics is also have to be done. We start this project like a year ago and we are able to make a completely new cockpit without HUD or other avionics(Such as B-52, B-2, SR-71). We are really step on that problem and make experiments about that. Yet we cannot find any solution within the legal lines of the game. And the last chance is the ask for help from the ED for this plane. The only way to complete the cockpit is possible with their helps and im asking for some tips from them.:). I know that people is love this plane and its deserves to make one of them for our lovely flight sim.:smilewink: Without the working cockpit, we're not thinking to release only plane itself. There is a lot of 3d planes and its not gonna be one of them.

 

 

Well, Yoda did most of this work (synchronize radar with LockOn) with LEAVU2 (I contributed to LEAVU2 in a small way). I also adapted LEAVU2 to get the mechanical state of the aircraft and make a little display for arrestor hook state etc for carrier landing (since I often fly with VNAO). So this is entirely possible. Yoda also improved on the default F-15 radar model with his EFI mod - which made it more realistic.

 

The HUD and MFDs are just pretty simple 2D 'textures' that get updated every couple of frames. Then texture map to the correct coordinates on the model. No big deal here. Even better, the HUD and MFDs are flat surfaces. Texture mapping spheres (which I've done in OpenGL) is more of a a PITA.

 

The DirectX hooking is clearly possible, as shown by Kegetys' work. However, I think there is another way that this could be done.

 

Lighting etc is also relatively simple. Shadowing requires more work but is also not that hard. Soft-shadowing is harder - so don't start with that. nb: looking forward to A-10C having self-shadowed cockpit (great job ED). Position of the sun would need to be computed (since LockOn uses realistic sun, moon and star positions - got on them), but there is no shortage of libraries for doing this.

 

The tricky part is the overlay. Either injecting the cockpit into LockOn, or, grabbing the LockOn screen and texture mapping it as a background and overlaying the cockpit on top. Thinking about it I prefer this way as it gives more freedom for the implementation (and after doing a decade of Windows programming in the 90's I loathe doing it now, since non-Windows programming tools are so much more modern and nicer, even C# has vestiges of the old Windows cruft).

 

For interaction you leave the joystick etc directly input to LockOn. Then your overlay intercepts all keypresses and translates to LockOn commands which are transferred through the LockOn input interface. That way the overlay can have input focus and you don't have to worry about giving it to LockOn.

 

This would be much easier if it was possible to get the LockOn display as a bitmap in the same way that DCS exports it's MFDs/Shkval as bitmaps. If you are running out of things to implement (lol!) c0ff this would be wonderful.

 

 

Edit:

* would the radar model be DCS quality? of course not. But it could be usable to FC2 levels (and maybe a bit more).

* of course rendering a cockpit externally would consume CPU cycles (just as well your quad core beast has two idle cores :)) and there would possibly be a FPS drop. The trick will be how much this can be minimized so that the game+mod is still playable.

* Finally, once the technique is perfected there is no reason it could not be used for other cockpits. Tornado or Eurofighter anyone?


Edited by Moa
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It would be good if ED released an SDK so such projects could be completed. Also a standard should be set and all addons up to that level should use an autoupdater like six updater for Arma2 to add the mods 3d model for MP or the whole mod if its freeware to the sim.:thumbup:

That Hornet looks good though the sound effects are very good.

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

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Cockpits are the biggest area of LockOn/DCS that are hard to mod (textures only at the moment).

 

ED have been making more and more functionality available though, eg. exporting MFDs and Shkval.

 

In A-10C there is also support (header files and example codec) of how to provide your own codecs for movie export. It was an unexpected bonus of ED to take the time to document that (thanks c0ff and crew).

 

Slowly but surely we're getting more support. I would be nice to have the ability *now* to do these things, or even a declaration that one day the ability to access the DCS frame buffer would be supported. Hopefully it's on their frag-list of 'someday' wishes somewhere. I don't think giving direct access to the final framebuffer for compositing would be too hard - but without knowing the internals of DCS it's hard to know the possible gotchas (if there are any).

 

However, it's clear the ED team are busy with their true priorities (expanding A-10C and bringing Ka-50 and possibly FC2 up to that standard). IMHO this is how it should be, as far more people benefit from the increasing features being added in the A-10C 'patches' (I personally can't wait for the self-shadowing cockpit in A-10C, scheduled in patch 1.1.0.8 I think).

 

I do hope one day that we do get access to the DCS frame buffer so we can do composition (not only for cockpits but also I've love to be able to put things like US carrier PLAT camera cross-hairs and text in-game).


Edited by Moa
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Lovely model and cockpit.

 

For the VEAO Typhoon, we basically used gauge arguments to make a workable HUD, but not a combat HUD. That is proving to be more tricky.

There are also work arounds for the MFCD's but again tricky.

If you need a hand with those, PM me.

 

DCS is far more open to this if you know your way around coding and a hex editor.

The VRA team are trying a few different things until such time as the tools are available.

And as is our tradition, if we figure it out, we'll share it with you.

 

Please note that this is my view as VEAO developer, not ED tester.

 

Yes Moa, cockpit shadows are part of 1.1.0.8 as per Wags update post.

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Lovely model and cockpit.

 

For the VEAO Typhoon, we basically used gauge arguments to make a workable HUD, but not a combat HUD.

post.

 

This already came my mind, its good idea right but also far away from realism of a real F-16. At least we have enough arguments to make a cockpit which dont have any avionics, only indicators so far.:joystick:

 

I wonder how many cockpits are awaiting ED to do something. ADA Team, VNAO team, VEAO team and numerous others.

 

ED has surely seen these photos but still, no help pending. Very sad state.cry.gif

 

Sad but agree with you mate.

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LawnDart,

Looking at the TO, the DFLCC will send signals to the command servo to schedule the LEF position depending on mach number, AOA and altitude. With Weight on both gears, wheel speed over 60 knots and throttle at idle or less the LEF will position 2 degrees up (or 1 inch above the strake) The full travel is 1 inch up ( 2 degrees) to 12 1/2 inches down ( 25 degrees)

 

My point is I think their model is good on that area

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To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I do believe in time ED will eventually give tools for DCS but for FC2 I think we have what we have. For what ever reason, ED will probably not release any tools needed to do cockpits such as these. This is the sad part. I don't think they will consider that FC2 is at End of LIfe any time soon.:( Personal opinion.

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I do believe in time ED will eventually give tools for DCS but for FC2 I think we have what we have. For what ever reason, ED will probably not release any tools needed to do cockpits such as these. This is the sad part. I don't think they will consider that FC2 is at End of LIfe any time soon.:( Personal opinion.

 

It would be nice for them to do that, but I wonder how many will use those tools for evil things. :cry:

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