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[REPORTED]CCIP MRS woes...


polygonpusher
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The Minimum Range Staple just plain does not seem to like anything even remotely resembling a dive.

 

Even at 10,000 ft 45 degrees of dive gives an invalid symbol due to MRS.

 

at 6,000 ft and 35 degrees - still no go.

 

Often the only time the MRS does not interfere is when the aircraft is pitched very little - less than say 15 degrees.

 

These examples are with a Mk-82 with zero time of flight, zero minimum altitude, and no escape profile.

 

Are your experiences the same? Other posts I have read seem to indicate so.

 

Is the A-10 "meant" to do most of it's CCIP bombing with a level attitude?

 

Maybe I'm trying to do things too much like the old Falcon 4 days... :)

MRS_01.jpg.9a6c852395673f680540e54b7706d406.jpg

MRS_02.jpg.35dcf47a606d0b16c0ad3a779eab0955.jpg

MRS_03.jpg.5a3ab7bfe1c5db0314981250ec01f7f8.jpg


Edited by polygonpusher
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I did a few tests and it does seem pretty eager to put that X in, but I think that configuring an escape profile is a good idea. With no escape profile set, the system will presumably act as if you're going to maintain your current flight path, which means you can only be safe from the blast if you're flying more or less level so the bomb will be able to separate from your course before impact.

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As I recall Nomdeplume the behavior was the same even with various escape profiles set. I'll have to do an actual test to confirm.

 

Is the "X" to be taken as a healthy recommendation only-

in that the bomb will release even if it is "invalid"?

 

I've let them fly with invalid release cues at what I deemed a safe altitude with no problems or blast damage.

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It is indeed only a 'recommendation' - whether that's real life behaviour or not I have no idea, but I have previously dropped Mk82AIRs below 500ft (so they'd not have a hope of gliding properly) with the MRS cue (X) on the HUD and the weapons will release nonetheless.

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  • 8 years later...

This will be a necro post. I've been recently practicing CCIP drops, inputing correctly all the necessary data, but I always seem to get the cross in CCIP reticle because MRS always falls down no matter what minimum alt, DTOF, MTOF, RTSE I set.. I cannot get CCIP to drop without X with any of the standard profiles for example for 30 degree dive 82 30HA2 (DTOF 11.3, MTOF 10.9, RTSE: CLM). I do not know what but there seems to be something wrong with MRS, even in most youtube tutorials CCIP is crossed. I think there has to be some long standing bug, which it would be nice to have it corrected.

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Hi

 

Please attach a short track replay showing the issue and we will take a look,

 

thank you

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Hi

 

Please attach a short track replay showing the issue and we will take a look,

 

thank you

 

I have just tested it and found a probable cause, in Caucasus where target elevation is close to 0, all indications are correct DRC and MRS are correct and CCIP piper is not crossed for the profile 82 30HA2 with DTOF 11.3 MTOF 10.9 min ALT 2000 (it works actually very well). This is in the track (A10_MRS_correct.trk). However it seems that when the target's elevation is much higher like in Nevada (3400 ft), the indications are incorrect and the CCIP is crossed from the start (although the profile is the same and the drop is valid and accurate) using the same profile parameters and same approach. This is in tracks A10_MRS_incorrect1.trk with min alt set to 2000 and in the track A10_MRS_incorrect2.trk where I set the min alt to 5500 to take account target elevation. Target waypoint is set to 3400 feet and setting the waypoint to DTS or manual makes no difference. So in the end I think that calculation of DRC and MRS is always assuming that target elevation is zero and this is where the problem maybe is.

A10_MRS_correct.trk

A10_MRS_incorrect1.trk

A10_MRS_incorrect2.trk

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MIN ALT I found is a height and not an altitude. One shouldn't add the target elevation. What point on the surface is used as a reference is a good question. HOT elevation in the HUD should be the most reliable. If using DTSAS I would hope that it uses the pipper position and not directly under the airplane. It probably only uses waypoint elevation if neither of the other two are available.

 

MRS/MRC "X" display is based on three factors: fuze, frag, and min alt. It will display when at least one condition is met. SEM NONE disables the frag condition and therefore the "X" should display either unchanged or always later with SEM NONE instead of SEM other than NONE.

 

One can test the MRC for all three conditions by the following:

 

  • MIN ALT - set MIN ALT to a large number. Note MRC variance with MIN ALT setting.
  • FUZE - set MIN ALT 0, SEM NONE and note the variance of MRC with fuze time
  • FRAG - set MIN ALT and FUZE to minimum setting and observe variance with SEM NONE and SEM other than NONE

One of the best ways to see each effect is to configure different bombs (for fuze time) and profiles such that a factor may be changed with a single press of DMS right-left. During a demonstration attack the sudden jump of display can be seen. Additional helpers are using the training mode to put notional weapons on pylons, the IFFCC menu which displays release parameters on the HUD, time acceleration, and HOT elevation at any convenient height (e.g. ~1000 AGL) for consistent and safe "floor."

 

In general the "X" over pipper should not display when current slant range is greater than minimum slant range and should display when current slant range is less. There might be exceptions but under normal conditions this should hold true. That's not what's seen currently. Possibly currently the MRC position is driven by only one of these factors but the "X" isn't leading to situations where you're beyond MRC slant range but you still have an X and occasionally the reverse.

 

The calculations should go (I think) as follows:

Fuze: Calculate slant range where TOF = DSMS fuze time given current parameters.

Min Alt: Calculate slant range where minimum HOT = MIN ALT DSMS setting given current parameters and SEM is flown (if SEM NONE, assume CLM for minimum height during recovery).

Frag: Calculate slant range where airplane is = frag radius at currently predicted TOF and SEM if flown (SEM NONE, this value 0).

Displayed MRC slant range: highest of above three values.

 

Some of these calculations can be quite difficult, especially frag. Right now I just tested a 2s and an 18s fuze bomb swapping back and forth with no change in MRC positioning when it should.

 

Included is a track which sets up two profiles SEM NONE and SEM CLM and two bombs M904 2s and M904 18s. A few dives are flown switching profiles or weapons to see effects on the MRC. A HOT elevation of 3000' was entered for consistent floor.

A10 MRC CCIP.trk

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