Dynamic Campaign Discussion Thread

[HerrKaputt]

Campaign flags are a good idea because they are really easy to implement, unless I'm forgetting something:

 

at end of mission:

set

if (armor formation was obliterated during the mission)

ArmorFormationDestroyedFlag = 1

else

ArmorFormationDestroyedFlag = 0

end if

export ArmorFormationDestroyedFlag to somewhere in the save game file

 

Easy as pie on Christmas.

[snwboardn]

This would already be quite nice as a first step. It would confer the campaign some "memory" of what happened in the past.

 

However, even this "simple" addition isn't that simple at all. Suppose you have one mission where you have to take out an AA site, and the next mission is to bomb the runway which was being protected by said AA site. What happens if on the first mission you decide to bomb the runway? What happens to the second mission?

 

Stuff like this are what makes a proper DC a non-trivial task.

 

Isn't that why we have If/then and while statements?

 

I think before a campaign generator can be implemented there are some other things that need work first, like dynamic object priority classification.

 

The most disappointing is JTAC, really you are going to tell me to go bomb some tanks, when there are Surface to Air targets that could be taken out first, how are they not a priority target? I realize that implementing JTAC is an important first step, but JTAC determining it's own targets by changing situations will have to be improved first.

[HerrKaputt]

Isn't that why we have If/then and while statements?

 

Of course IFs, WHILEs etc will be involved. But it is MUCH more complex than that.

[snwboardn]

Of course IFs, WHILEs etc will be involved. But it is MUCH more complex than that.

 

To me it seems something as easy as,

 

if player has score less than 75 then generate map with these nodes,

 

if player has score => than 75 then generate map with these nodes

 

campaign = over when map is generated at nodes X

 

To me it seems that you could start off just by going off of strictly the debriefing screen... each force could push forward to the next nodes depending on who destroyed the most units... The only real limitation is some way to simulate the rest of scenario after the player quits. But for just starting out who cares... just let it generate the next mission with what it has at player quit...

 

I mean that seems easy enough, you don't have to start at the top, implement what we already have (a pretty impressive mission generator)

[EtherealN]

Such a simple node system would sort of defeat the objective of what it is the Falcon fans want, though. There's not even be an illusion of persistance in that case. (Or, rather, a very poor illusion of it - sort of like old IL-2.)

[GGTharos]

What you need nodes for is to generate/locate resources that should be defended etc, but the campaign engine should also be 'geography aware' either through automated (And then recorded) analysis, or by following roads already laid down in the map, or with human help etc. It should then prepare blockades/ambushes in narrow passes, and try to channel enemy forces into those.

 

That's just for simple ground warfare not even yet taking into account trucking in ammo and other things.

 

Naturally, if those trucks are blown up, your SAM sites should be sitting empty ... :D

[snwboardn]

Lmao... I was just saying for starters... I mean in a perfect world you could really bring total immersion into the picture, but I am just throwing "easy" ideas out there, since the official response to a DC is "we wanted to but it was just too hard to do."

 

I am just saying for starters they could start with something manageable, that gives the perception of a DC and when they actually want or feel the need to improve upon it they can.

 

I am giving them realistic goals ;)

 

*edit* That quote is a loose interpretation of what I have gathered reading the forums, and in no way expresses the ideas or official statements by DCS or Eagle Dynamics

[Yuya6104]

For DCS Dev

 

since now DCS A-10C an Ka-50 geting more an more detail think is a good time put away scripingng an triigers an go for RL dynamic campaign methud and dynamic campaign coop for mutiplayer giving host vast arry tools like a commander on battle felid like he can assign human players an AI tasks to squadrons or ground battalens while AI react like RL humans would in moder battlefeild..

 

dont know just thought this a week ago about takeing next step up in new gen of dynamic campaign ..

 

up to Dev if go for the challange or stay with scripping an tiggers.. honestly does get kinda boring with scripping same mission over an over an over when already know enemy is.. is about time take a new approce.. ^^

 

this wasnt a wish..if was i said i wish..

 

this a request for Deveoplers..

Edited August 6, 2011 by Yuya6104

[HerrKaputt]

Yuya, I think that by now the creators of DCS are well aware that some people would like a dynamic campaign. It's a big undertaking... we'll just have to wait. Maybe the next module already has a sort-of dynamic campaign, maybe not.

[EtherealN]

Yuya, feel free to make one. There is literally nothing stopping you, it can all be modded right in. ;)

 

...but of course, for some reason the people that know how to do the scripting have noted that it is, as Kaputt mentioned, not exactly easy nor something that can be done quickly.

[sobek]

There are several forces at work on this (i'm not talking about ED), i'd say the chances are we are going to see some further development in that direction. As was mentioned, it has to be done in baby steps as not to become too big of an undertaking.

[Dimebag1]

I was playing the FF5 dynamic campaign the other night, having never played either F4 or FF previously, and I've got to say, the whole thing just seemed alive in a way FC or DCS never has before. It really does feel like being in the middle of a full on air conflict. Although I haven't had much of a chance to really get to know it due to my inexperience in the falcon, it really did seem like actions had consequences as others here have said, and the world and AI reacted uniquely depending on prior actions. I haven't read this entire thread so I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but is it possible for a DC to be brought online?

[genbrien]

Naturally, if those trucks are blown up, your SAM sites should be sitting empty ... :D

 

In real life, would they activate their radar even if they dont have any missile left, so you'll think they are still there and active.

Or they wont risk giving away theur position?

[EtherealN]

Would depend entirely on the type of SAM, what radar assets it has, and the tactical situation. If the SAM site is networked it might elect to operate radars at certain times in order to afford a more complete radar coverage, but this would depend on how big the risk of getting HARMed is. (Modern versions of anti-radiation missiles will have a "memory", so if it gets a solid track it'll kill you even if you turn the radar off.) Similarly there's the issue of exposing position to cruise missiles.

 

I'd say that in a full force-on-force scenario they would be very careful with when and how they operate radars even when they have missiles. But there's also issues with the defending sides objectives - for example, the serb forces in Allied Force focused on conserving their forces (very successfully), but this might not have been as good an option if a ground war had commenced.

[Rubini]

Hi mates,

 

First of all, excuse-me my poor english, It´s not my native language

 

I´m also an old DC fashioned guy. I´m 50 years old and have played almost all DC flight simulators out there. My preferred is TAW, what I yet play sometimes. My first DC sim was EF2000 and so on.

 

Well, I agree 200% about the lack of DC on lockon series. What a beautiful and accessible game but without DC!:cry: Falcon was too much for my few freetime...I like more lockon series because they are more easy to learn; I guess that I never will learn Falcon enough... (well, I think so)

 

I´m here to say to that I have a real way to make a DC for lockon series. The idea come from an old third party addon for F-22 ADF (it was TAW without DC, released few months before TAW itself, 12 years ago!!). It´s called MAW (micro air war), a very good and simple DC generator and management, just a brilliant piece of software. It can be adapted with some effort to any flight sim. (we can also try to contact the author, perhaps he likes ED series too...:smartass:)

 

We will need a good expert on Lomac MEditor and a visualbasic or C++ programer, just to adapt the soft to the Lomac maps and coordenates, also to put the result ATO (mission choosed by the player) in a lomac type .mis file.

 

The main DC management is alway ready to be used with more than 5000 units per campaign (obiously we can use only a few to match ED series capacity), with supplies lines, damage status, time line and objectives to each side, victory conditions...it generate a series of ATO missions (CAP, Escort, CAS, SEAD, etc) to each type of flyable aircraft to be choosed by the player and so on.

 

The entire soft is just 1mb in size!!! Very small, quickly and almost bug free, almost all it´s variables are in a text format, easely to edit to match lomacs nations, scenarios and units.

 

I can post it´s readme file if someone is interested, you will understand it´s potential.

 

I have not the programer´s skills and I have not a deep lomac ME acknowledge to make all this alone. We need a small team. I can asure you that in few months we will have a working beta for this.

 

I´m a veteran Silent Hunter 3 modder, I already made part of some modders teams, I´m sure that we can do it and very quickly.

 

If someone that have the skills is interested please contact me.:thumbup:

 

Rubini.

[EtherealN]

Welcome to our forum. :)

 

Well, if it's easy, why haven't people done it? There are several extremely talented modders in this community that have looked at how to make a DC (I have looked at it too, but isn't good enough of a programmer), and the general consensus is that it can be done - but it's a very complex task that will take a lot of time.

 

Don't look too closely on the size of a given program - something being only 1mb in size is still a million bytes of machine code! It'll typically be even larger - possibly several times larger, depending on several factors - in it's native high-level language (like C). For a comparison: the complete Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, all five novels, downloads in plaintext (for Kindle) at roughly that size. "Just 1mb in size" is, thus, roughly five novel's worth of complex code. ;)

 

Additionally, being bug-free for it's current implementation doesn't mean it would be bug-free for a DC aimed at DCS products - in fact, there would most likely be a huge amount of bugs simply because a lot of things would have to be changed radically to work with the formats these products use. I'm not familiar with the code in that program you mention, but I wouldn't be surprised if half of it has to be ripped out and re-done.

 

So when you say "do it very quickly", I think you are grossly underestimating the sheer size of the undertaking. This isn't a "mod", since a "mod" by definition modifies existing functions. This is about creating wholly new functions that aren't there! Totally different beast.

[HerrKaputt]

Nevertheless it's worth a shot. I'll look into Micro Air War to get a feeling of how the software works...

 

By the way, even if I do understand it, I definitely can NOT be a part of that possible team that would really tackle the problem. I'd love to, and I know how to program quite well, but I don't have enough time for it (plus I don't own any DCS modules which would make things even harder).

[Rubini]

The idea is to show us that it´s not that difficult. Obviously, we can make this in several degrees...I mean...we can starting using the MAw (adapted) just as is and then IF role thing appears to be really good we can refine it in it´s Ai and GUI.

 

Below some aspects of the conflict/some examples of files created by MAW, starting with the briefing of the first day with the ATO mission that you will fly as an A-10 pilot of a ficcional war that I generate in one minute (and totally playable on F22 ADF...if we could have the translation for ED series .mis it could be played now here too). This scenario is between DJIBOUTI&RUSSIAN versus Somalia&USA. You can change the aircraft that you want to play for each mission if you want to.

 

Please continue reading, I will post more comments below.

 

====================================================

Day 0 Time 00:00:00

 

 

Allied Airport Status

' Berbera dispersal' Status 100/100 Fuel 74 Mat. 74 52 a/c 69/100

' Shilmale dispersal' Status 100/100 Fuel 72 Mat. 98 59 a/c 67/100

' Burco' Status 100/100 Fuel 88 Mat. 98 58 a/c 68/100

' Anaibo dispersal' Status 100/100 Fuel 98 Mat. 86 53 a/c 67/100

' Berbera' Status 100/100 Fuel 78 Mat. 96 52 a/c 57/100

' Hargeysa' Status 100/100 Fuel 91 Mat. 85 55 a/c 74/100

 

Node Status: 100

Node Status: 100

 

 

Air Force

YOUR ALLIANCE ENEMY ALLIANCE

329 unit available 249 unit available

0 unit on repair 0 unit on repair

0 unit killed 0 unit killed

146 unit in reserve 94 unit in reserve

Status: 100/100 Status: 100/100

 

Air Defence network

YOUR ALLIANCE ENEMY ALLIANCE

239 unit available 350 unit available

0 unit killed 0 unit killed

0 unit in reserve 0 unit in reserve

Status: 100/100 Status: 100/100

 

Army

YOUR ALLIANCE ENEMY ALLIANCE

299 unit available 492 unit available

0 unit killed 0 unit killed

132 unit in reserve 227 unit in reserve

Status: 100/100 Status: 100/100

 

Navy

YOUR ALLIANCE ENEMY ALLIANCE

35 unit available 59 unit available

0 unit killed 0 unit killed

16 unit in reserve 21 unit in reserve

Status: 100/100 Status: 100/100

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

 

ATO: 72 (4200)

 

MISSION TYPE: Ground Strike

 

OBJECTIVE: Attack the enemy vehicles

 

EXECUTION:

An enemy ground formation has been detected. The objective is to destroy as many enemy vehicles as possible. The package consists of an escort flight and an attack flight. Respect the waypoint timing and do not engage enemy aircrafts if you can avoid it.

 

AIRCRAFT LIST:

Aircraft: 1 Type F15C Callsign "WOLF" Role 'Escort'

Weapons Package 'Air to Air'

TakeOff from 'Burco' (+30 minutes)

Landing at 'Burco'

Aircraft: 2 Type F15C Callsign "WOLF" Role 'Escort'

Weapons Package 'Air to Air'

TakeOff from 'Burco' (+30 minutes)

Landing at 'Burco'

Aircraft: 3 Type A10 Callsign "ECHO" Role 'Ground Intercept'

Weapons Package 'Mobile Strike, rockets'

TakeOff from 'Burco' (+30 minutes)

Landing at 'Burco'

Aircraft: 4 Type A10 Callsign "ECHO" Role 'Ground Intercept'

Weapons Package 'Mobile Strike, rockets'

TakeOff from 'Burco' (+30 minutes)

Landing at 'Burco'

 

AWACS Support: yes

An AEW platform is orbiting over 'Burco' airport

 

JSTARS Support: yes

A JSTARS platform is orbiting over 'Burco' airport

 

TANKER Support: yes

A Tanker platform is orbiting over 'Shilmale dispersal' airport

 

Available Airport (from target point):

[ 151] nm Airport 'Hargeysa'

[ 158] nm Airport 'Shilmale dispersal'

[ 176] nm Airport 'Berbera'

[ 182] nm Airport 'Berbera dispersal'

[ 211] nm Airport 'Burco'

[ 253] nm Airport 'Anaibo dispersal'

 

=============================================

 

So, at the end of this mission this game (f-22 ADF) will give you a score. The mission maximum score is not equal for all missions, more dificult missions give more scores. Then you enter this value (score) on the MAW that is running backside and then it calculate all the war for the next 8hrs and then the amount of supplies, units, structures will become more and more damaged/destroyed as war passes until one side become victorious. Beside the 12 years old and very small program, the MAW routine is very complex as I will show next.

 

It generates a lot of flights (ground attack, sead, cas, cap, escort, etc) for airforce, also for navy and ground . Also generates the AWACs and refullers. Then it presents to you the amount of missions that the plane that you choose is in. As a F15 pilot for example, you can have a good variety of missions, and each one with it´s own score based on it´s difficult.

I put these refered things in bold below:

 

This is MAW 1.21 beta [closedloop].

parseAcWeightFile(): reading data...done.

parseVcWeightFile(): reading data...done.

parseShWeightFile(): reading data...done.

parseConflictFile(): reading keywords...done.

parseCountryFile(): reading countries...done.

fillNodeTable(): defining grid...done.

initAtoTable(): proposing ATOs...[165] proposed ATO...done.

initAtoTable(): proposing ATOs...[326] proposed ATO...done.

checkAtoTable(): checking...[ 76] ATO accepted...done.

checkAtoTable(): checking...[ 41] ATO accepted...done.

generateSGT(): working...done.

generateSGT(): working...done.

synchAtoTable(): working...done.

synchAtoTable(): working...done.

trimATO(): checking for overload...[ 0] done.

initMAW(): reading file...done.

0 Ato [147][100] Airport CAP + 0 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

1 Ato [155][100] Airport CAP + 0 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

2 Ato [148][ 99] AWACS Redeploy + 20 score: 100 Escort

3 Ato [149][ 99] JSTARS Redeploy + 20 score: 100 Escort

4 Ato [144][ 97] Tanker Redeploy + 20 score: 100 Escort

5 Ato [ 26][ 94] BarCAP + 30 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

6 Ato [ 20][ 92] BarCAP + 10 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

7 Ato [ 19][ 85] BarCAP + 40 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

8 Ato [ 42][ 62] Factory Patrol + 60 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

9 Ato [159][ 58] Airport Strike + 60 score: 250 Escort

10 Ato [101][ 49] Fleet Patrol + 40 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

11 Ato [ 69][ 47] Ground Strike + 60 score: 150 Escort

12 Ato [112][ 47] Fleet Strike + 70 score: 150 Escort

13 Ato [ 63][ 45] Ground Strike + 90 score: 150 Escort

14 Ato [ 59][ 42] Ground Group CAP + 40 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

15 Ato [127][ 42] Fleet Patrol + 80 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

16 Ato [136][ 42] Fleet Strike + 90 score: 150 Escort

17 Ato [ 83][ 40] Ground Group CAP + 60 score: 150 Combat Air Patrol

Aircraft: F15C Flights: 18 your choiche [0-17]: 4

 

writeUDL(): generating UDL file...done.

writeMDL(): generating MDL file...[ 118] mission [ 198] flight...done.

writePDL(): generating PDL file...done.

writeTXT(): generating TXT file...done.

Do you want to replay this day [yYnN] ?n

 

Please enter your total mission score:

=====================================================

 

Here you can see all the variables that the MAW calculates for each side (all this is easily adjusted in a text file), allowing to we make very different campaigns each time you play, making balanced or unbalanced details of the conflict:

 

BLUE_maxMAINTENANCE 70

BLUE_minMAINTENANCE 50

BLUE_maxTRAINING 70

BLUE_minTRAINING 50

BLUE_maxMATERIAL 70

BLUE_minMATERIAL 50

BLUE_AIRDEFENCE 75

BLUE_READINESS 70

BLUE_FUEL_TRUCK 100

BLUE_SUPP_TRUCK 100

BLUE_CLUSTER 7

BLUE_POSTURE 70

BLUE_FLEET 7

RED_maxMAINTENANCE 70

RED_minMAINTENANCE 50

RED_maxTRAINING 70

RED_minTRAINING 50

RED_maxMATERIAL 70

RED_minMATERIAL 50

RED_AIRDEFENCE 75

RED_READINESS 70

RED_FUEL_TRUCK 100

RED_SUPP_TRUCK 100

RED_CLUSTER 7

RED_POSTURE 70

RED_FLEET 7

CONFLICT_DURATION 10

KILL_RATIO 25

PERFORMANCE_FACTOR 75

NODE_LIMIT 30

AIRFORCE_LIMIT 30

ARMY_LIMIT 35

===========================

 

More below....

Edited August 9, 2011 by Rubini

[Rubini]

Here some more views of MAw generated files and I also attached the MAW doc files (windows help file format). Take a look and think about the possibilities. We have two main problems to use MAW as it is: first we need to put the Ed series scenario into it (It now have the scenario from f-22 ADF - that is major than ED series!! - because it have a much major area and much more ground places, hundreds of cities, fabrics, airports, ports, etc!!). The second problem is to make the generate mission files ED .mis compatible. These files are very simple as F-22 Adf reads text files that are very organized with lots of info (waypoints, mission types, loudouts, objectives, etc).

 

I tried a contact with the author some hours ago...lets see if he will appears. Seems that he is a veteran computer programmer and also a flight sim enthusiast. Who knows...:smartass:

 

MAWGUI_doc.zip

(unzip both files at same folder)

 

file event.log

===================================

***DAY 0: Cluster 14 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 15 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 16 [RED] moves toward node 29

***DAY 0: Cluster 17 [RED] moves toward node 1

***DAY 0: Cluster 18 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 19 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 20 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 21 [RED] moves toward node 29

***DAY 0: Cluster 22 [RED] moves toward node 1

***DAY 0: Cluster 23 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 24 [RED] moves toward node 21

***DAY 0: Cluster 25 [RED] moves toward node 1

***DAY 0: Cluster 26 [RED] moves toward node 5

***DAY 0: Cluster 27 [RED] moves toward node 1

***DAY 0: Cluster 28 [RED] load 500 supp from Obock factory

***DAY 0: Fleet 14 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 15 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 16 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 17 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 18 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 19 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 20 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 21 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 22 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 23 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 24 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 25 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 26 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 27 [RED] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 28 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 29 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 30 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 31 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 32 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 33 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 34 [RED] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 41 [RED] [without supp] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 42 [RED] [without supp] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 43 [RED] [without supp] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 44 [RED] [without supp] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Cluster 0 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 1 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 2 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 3 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 4 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 5 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 6 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 7 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 8 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 9 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 10 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 11 [bLUE] moves toward node 22

***DAY 0: Cluster 12 [bLUE] moves toward node 11

***DAY 0: Cluster 13 [bLUE] moves toward node 10

***DAY 0: Cluster 35 [bLUE] load 500 supp from Hargeysa i1 factory

***DAY 0: Fleet 0 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 1 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 2 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 3 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 4 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 5 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 6 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 7 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 8 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 9 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 10 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 11 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 12 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 13 [bLUE] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 35 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 36 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 37 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 38 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 39 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 40 [bLUE] [without fuel] moves toward port Aseb

***DAY 0: Fleet 45 [bLUE] [without supp] moves toward port Aseb

=================================================

 

file port.war.

=================================================

#

# Port Status File

#

# valid during conflict

#

# format:

# <Port> <country> <original> <status> <frame> <fuel> <supply>

#

 

0 SOMALIA SOMALIA RDY 100 54 57 #[berbera]

1 SOMALIA SOMALIA RDY 100 59 56 #[Maydh]

2 SOMALIA SOMALIA RDY 100 61 61 #[Heis]

3 SOMALIA SOMALIA RDY 100 59 55 #[Karin]

4 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 80 78 #[Edd]

5 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 97 82 #[Aseb]

6 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 93 79 #[Mersa Gulbub]

7 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 86 97 #[Mersa Teklay]

8 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 99 92 #[Zula]

9 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 76 90 #[bahar Assoli]

10 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 94 83 #[beylul]

11 ERITREA ERITREA RDY 100 77 89 #[Tio]

12 DJIBOUTI DJIBOUTI RDY 100 63 57 #[Obock]

13 DJIBOUTI DJIBOUTI RDY 100 50 63 #[Tadjourah]

14 DJIBOUTI DJIBOUTI RDY 100 52 55 #[Fagal]

15 EGYPT EGYPT RDY 100 93 96 #[Al Qusayr]

16 EGYPT EGYPT RDY 100 81 88 #[Marsa Mubarak]

17 EGYPT EGYPT RDY 100 83 92 #[Marsa Alam]

18 EGYPT EGYPT RDY 100 92 85 #[Mina Baranis]

19 EGYPT EGYPT RDY 100 94 76 #[bir Shalatein]

20 SUDAN SUDAN RDY 100 83 85 #[Halaib]

21 SUDAN SUDAN RDY 100 91 92 #[Muhammad Qol]

22 SUDAN SUDAN RDY 100 76 96 #[Trinkitat]

===================================================

 

Well, I think that all we can have now a good idea about the possibilities that MAW opens to any flight sim without a DC. I yet bet that we can achieve to adapt it to Ed series.:thumbup:

Edited August 9, 2011 by Rubini

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

 

Me again. Sorry by the sequence of posts.

 

I just have really very good news.

Paolo Bainardi, the author of MAW replied my contact. See below:

 

 

Hello Adriano,

 

Don't worry about your English, it is actually very good -and I am not a native English speaker either-

 

Yes, I am the author of MAW and I know the LOMAC series. If I remember correctly, LOMAC relies on a mission editor and pre-written/fixed missions.

 

I do not have the source code of MAW anymore (it was ages ago...) but I still remember something. What I can do is to write down for you some basic diagrams and details about how MAW used to work and to point out which kind of information you need to know to be able to write something similar to MAW for LOMAC.

 

Let me know if you would like this approach. Also, you can tell me which forum it is, I can subscribe there and maybe write also something.

 

I do not have much time (I am working quite a lot) but I can dedicate some time to that.

 

Cheers,

 

Paolo

 

So, I guess that we will have something real now. I will mantain contact with him and will invite him to meet this forum ASAP. :thumbup:

[112th_Rossi]

I think I could probably do this. But I wouldn't use MAW.

 

I'd reverse engineer the mission file structure and workout how to recreate it programmatically. From there I could construct a dynamic campaign algorithm. Very basically.

 

Worth a try.

[112th_Rossi]

We will need a good expert on Lomac MEditor and a visualbasic or C++ programer

 

Me :)

[EtherealN]

(It now have the scenario from f-22 ADF - that is major than ED series!! - because it have a much major area and much more ground places, hundreds of cities, fabrics, airports, ports, etc!!).

 

Again, respectfully, you are missing the point. Map size doesn't really matter for how complex this is. Even if you were to have to place these "nodes" by hand and it would make a difference in that way, it's still only a tiny thing. And while F-22 ADF was nice for it's time (I did fly it a couple times), the density is extremely low - meaning that a smaller map in a modern sim is still "larger" since you'll have to take more things into account per km². (There's very few areas in the DCS Georgia theatre where you have a simple flat space. There's villages, cities, factories and things everywhere, no cheap flat desert expanses with a few token factories and buildings at key locations.)

 

But even with all those things granted, the big job is still there - like Rossi said, you need to find some way to turn your external DC engine's state into mission files complete with appropriate and non-broken scripting. Not impossible - as I have said before (in this thread even, I think) you could theoretically make the whole thing in something as easy as AutoIT. But it'll still be very difficult - you don't have any "nodes" in the same sense as what MAW uses, all you have is LAT-LONG (and make sure you take elevation, all rivers, cities etcetera into account).

 

The big thing is that you can of course make a very basic DC, that'll be pretty easy. Spawn a couple units in a few locations, let the guy fly, read the debrief logs, spawn new mission. But that would end up about as cool as the IL-2 DC... That is - it'll be a DC in pure technical terms, but the missions will all be run-of-the-mill. An okey first step for those that want to do it, but do remember that there is very good reason why ED works towards a DC in baby-steps. (The random mission generator included in DCS A-10C beign an example of one of those steps, where we also see the beginnings of a node system.)

[112th_Rossi]

like Rossi said, you need to find some way to turn your external DC engine's state into mission files complete with appropriate and non-broken scripting

 

I would leave the main DCS engine alone. Theres no point even trying to integrate with it. The mission files themselves are simply zip files with two or more LUA scripts inside. Simple.

 

DCS A10C has two executables, Launcher.exe which boots up the menu screen and DCS.exe which is the main sim itself. When you start a mission Launcher simply executes DCS.exe with some command parameters and thats it.

 

To create a dynamic campaign (or close to it) I would create a replacement for Launcher.exe. You would create a new campaign, give it some parameters, such as the two opponents, their resources and few other need to know items, then from those parameters create the .miz file.

 

The player would fly the mission, then at the end, we would some how detect the outcome. This is the hard part, Falcon 4 ran the game internally and fought the battles itself, this would be impossible to do in DCS so I think a dice roll would work well, depending on the success of the mission and the number of assets still in play on each side.

 

The hardwork would be generating the .miz file accurately but thats just a case of reverse engineering and patience.

 

The best way is not to get ahead to early and to keep it simple. A proof of concept should be doable fairly easily. Might take a look at it later.

Edited August 9, 2011 by 112th_Rossi

[EtherealN]

I would leave the main DCS engine alone. Theres no point even trying to integrate with it. The mission files themselves are simply zip files with two or more LUA scripts inside. Simple.

 

That's what I meant. ;)

I basically wanted to emphasize a point you made. :)

 

To create a dynamic campaign (or close to it) I would create a replacement for Launcher.exe. You would create a new campaign, give it some parameters, such as the two opponents, their resources and few other need to know items, then from those parameters create the .miz file.

 

Correct way to go about it. :)

 

The player would fly the mission, then at the end, we would some how detect the outcome. This is the hard part, Falcon 4 ran the game internally and fought the battles itself, this would be impossible to do in DCS so I think a dice roll would work well, depending on the success of the mission and the number of assets still in play on each side.

 

Could use some bubble-analogue to simplify things as well, and run the dice-rolls off of that.

 

The hardwork would be generating the .miz file accurately but thats just a case of reverse engineering and patience.

 

Here's where I sort of disagree. Sure, this will be a hard thing to do, but the really hard thing to do is to give the DC enough intelligence to spit out good missions. You need to make the moves made by both sides make sense - you essentially end up having to write what amounts to a strategy game AI, and even dedicated strategy games (like HoI, Empire, Starcraft etcetera) have issues with making the AI do "smart" things. (And in the case of Starcraft they sort of cheat through having a lot of hardcoded decisionmaking on the part of the AI which is very easy to "exploit".)

 

Obviously, for a first iteration, one might decide to just accept a bit of crappiness on the part of the AI (if you excuse the expression), but I worry that it's easy to end up locked in an existing codebase - you make a "functional" (but not "good") DC, and then when you start planning the "good" AI for the DC you find yourself having to make really major changes in what you already have.

 

This AI portion is the one I worry about. Figuring out how to make the miz files is a bare minimum but is fortunately fairly straightforward. AI programming however isn't quite that straightforward.