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NASA’s Astrobiology discovery


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"Tempus. Part of grammar."

 

Sorry English is not my native language. What do yo mean?

 

You said:

 

"NASA is not involved in searching for an intelligent ET..."

 

"Ah, documentary..."

 

I said from the beginning it was a documentary. But the words were directly from of the mouth of a NASA scientist. He was talking about what he does.

 

"You completely misunderstand the whole thing, because your example actually does not address what you think it does.

 

Two automobiles are two physical objects.

Two minds are two emergent phenomenon.

 

The difference here is absolute. There is almost literally nothing in common."

 

Yes they have little in common. My argument remain the same though. Two identical cars or two identical minds remain separate entities.

 

"Because my mind, as an emergent phenomenon, obeys the laws of reality that governs it."

 

So does that mean you do not believe your self? Sure sounds like it. For instance, fear of death. You are walking across the street a speeding bus comes right at you. You fear for your life and leap out of the way. Now were you worried that you will die or are you trying to save the consciousness that will occupy your changing body tomorrow?

 

Thus it can be said that you don't believe it.

 

"It is a response to a common objection. I'm sorry that you didn't quite understand it.

The objection you raised applies to you already. One second to the next, you change. You are not what you were previously. Thus, the only way to raise that objection to transfer of mind that you did is to prove that mind is an actual object. Sadly... there is no such thing as a mind as an object - the closest humanity has ever gotten to that is called "religion", and it just doesn't work whenever someone does something as rude as asking for evidence."

 

What has religion got to do with any thing I am saying?

 

Also, every time I am talking about memory but you keep dragging consciousness into this argument.

 

Actually, if you look at the common definition of mind (I am not referring to consciousness.), it is an existing entity.

 

Once again, what is wrong with my argument (That biological memory and silicon copy are different entities.)?

 

"Where did I talk about "law"? I don't give a crap about law, I'm talking about identity."

 

I mentioned the law because A and B would be treated a two different entities by any legal system on this planet.

 

You said that we change from one moment to the next. So how can you claim that A and B have the same identity seeing that they both are changing from one second to the next?

 

"How can you say there is a copy and an original? To say that you need to first quantify what was there in the first place."

 

Original - the original biological memory copied from.

 

Copy the verbatim reproduction of original biological memory, stored on computer.

 

"In my opinion, you have shown only a massive lack of knowledge about what NASA is actually doing. But I guess I'm just overly picky from having the bad habit of reading actual research papers as opposed to popular media, since we all know popular media get absolutely everything right. Yup. That is fact."

 

Never said I know allot about any thing. In my humble opinion doing 15 years R&D and the 10 years of searching and coming back empty handed constitutes as a f-up.

 

Or sending a probe to the surface of Mars and not taking into account that there will be a jolt when the parachute opens. Thus causing sensors to cut away the parachute as soon as it opens and causing the probe to be destroyed.

 

Also NASA management going ahead after they were warned to delay launch and re-entry by technical staff (Which led to the two shuttle disasters.).

 

In regard to popular media: It was an interview with a NASA scientist who explained what he did at NASA.

 

" SEARCHING FOR INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE:

NASA’S HIGH RESOLUTION MICROWAVE SURVEY" - Is a article published by NASA.

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I think you just got he burden of proof completely backwards. Congratulations.

 

Did i ?

By babbling he inplied that my writting is irrational, without any fundation, so he imply that i am wrong.

 

If what i wrote is wrong, then there s something that would be true.

 

I m just asking by the sentence:

"Prove me wrong"

 

For him to prove that what i sayd is false, bringing another theory that would be the true one. If i brought the red pill i want him to show the blue pill :D

 

So the burden and meaning are correct, you just overlooked the possibilities.;)

 

Gambatee!


Edited by Succellus

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"Tempus. Part of grammar."

 

Sorry English is not my native language. What do yo mean?

 

It's not my native language either, and "tempus" is actually not English - it's a latin term that is ubiqioutous in the science of linguisitics - it is about how language deals with the dimension of time.

 

I was dead.

I am dead.

I will be dead.

 

There's three different tempus for you.

 

Unfortunately I have a lot to do right now, so I cannot spend the time to decipher the maze of what you have written right now, but I do feel that I should once again encourage you to open a separate thread for it. I could split it out but having to do work makes me grumpy. ;)

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I m just asking by the sentence:

"Prove me wrong"

 

Exactly.

 

There is a teapot the size of jupiter orbiting the sun.

Prove me wrong.

If you cannot (which you cannot) you have to accept it as fact.

 

Science is based on the fact that any positive statement needs to be accompanied by positive evidence. If you do not understand this most rudimentary aspect of science, you are not qualified to debate science in any shape or form.

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Didn't get to read this topic until now, but I started thinking it would be interesting what other people think about this. I was proven wrong :D

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There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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I don't know, but I say this is definitely "the friday afternoon, a couple hours to weekend thread".

Spoiler

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Easy - you are an elementary particle! :D

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Exactly.

 

There is a teapot the size of jupiter orbiting the sun.

Prove me wrong.

If you cannot (which you cannot) you have to accept it as fact.

 

Science is based on the fact that any positive statement needs to be accompanied by positive evidence. If you do not understand this most rudimentary aspect of science, you are not qualified to debate science in any shape or form.

 

Drop the booze, the tea pot is jupiter itself and i can proove you wrong.:smilewink:

There s a lot of work to do here now and this let me grumpy, so do you homework yourself and prove me wrong....:juggle:

There s plenty of material about the way mind works (assuming its not flawed by anomalies).:book:

And science IS time and again proven wrong trough itself, even bringing POSITIVE PEVIDENCES, so what was your point, because i m sure you know what i just sayd.

Mine is: whats hold today may not hold tomorrow, and:

stop spamming smoke nades, your not spoofing anyone, and finally:

Its not because someone display knowledge in a humourous way that the knowledge becomes less valid.

 

Cheer Up buddy its friday ! :beer:

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Yes, there is plenty of some form of material, most of it still not understood...either well, or totally. ;)

 

There s plenty of material about the way mind works (assuming its not flawed by anomalies).:book:

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Succellus, science isn't proven wrong through itself. Just saying that says one thing: you do not understand what the scientific method is, how it works, or what it implies.

 

If science proved itself wrong, your computer wouldn't work. Although, your computer might just be an illusion.

 

Prove that wrong... ;)

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Yes, there is plenty of some form of material, most of it still not understood...either well, or totally. ;)

 

We re getting there, we re getting there, which is very dangerous. We re already able to an extend to know which neurons/group of react to some kind of object though by the brain user.

 

This is still far from knowing deeply how the mind works, but it has already been prooved that each mind have a set of construction that is worked by relevant experiences, be it pain, be it joy or any other emotion that is considered relevant by the individual + some genetic inheritance randomness.

 

Though its still not possible to know why some people freeze when under danger and other react, why some minds go full power under stress while others need total calm to boost.

 

My best guess its that we are fundamentally animals and so we react like them. Some just freeze to blend, other runs or goes submissive and some fight back.

Remember you 98% the same as a monkey, and in the past we were some kind of squirrel, that why our brain still hold flying skills, and some people display instictive flying control while skydiving. stop flapping your arms it wont do it.:doh:

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Reactions are one thing. Animals react too. Intelligence, and mind as such are an entirely different thing that are not really well understood in some respects.

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Lol why the NASA reveal an artificial bactery that has been mutated in LAB throught experience, thats the real deal...And not an already known bacteria,

Brazilian scientist reveal a device where you can control your computer with the power of the mind only. as demontration they showed soomeone Tetraplegic (?) - neck down paralized - writting an e-mail, opening programs using them and navigating throught the internet just with the "power" of the mind.


Edited by Succellus

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Reactions are one thing. Animals react too. Intelligence, and mind as such are an entirely different thing that are not really well understood in some respects.

 

Intelligence as we know is very relative, it has already be proven, that animal cheats, deceive, do sex without procreative ends (read pleasure), are able to learn and pass on new techniques, bully in a vulgar display of power, many characteristic we tought to be human a decade or 2 ago and spreaded as intelligence and superiority are just "animal" features.

 

So when the term intelligence come to mind it has to be taken with grain of salt.

Even because in the big picture wasting the only habitable planet we have, and multiplying ourselves like an uncontrolled virus ain t that smart.

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Succellus, science isn't proven wrong through itself. Just saying that says one thing: you do not understand what the scientific method is, how it works, or what it implies.

 

If science proved itself wrong, your computer wouldn't work. Although, your computer might just be an illusion.

 

Prove that wrong... ;)

 

Seems my proposital kind of writting is efectively jamming your fast reading comprehension.:D :clown:

 

Ho i know very well what science is:

Science is the art of collecting the so called evidences to proove your point while securing others can t prove you wrong.

In fact its the same process as law court, i am right until someone can proove i am wrong.

Nothing more, Nothing less.

 

Now before you get mad at me, Tell me how many times theories supported by evidences have been refuted a few years latter just because someone did find evidences that the evidences prooving the theorie where uncomplete or biased or plainly wrong. (read that slowly :D)

Or simply some new knowledge allowing to proove the old knowledge is wrong, if thats not science prooving itself wrong by itself, i don t know what it is.

 

But seriously science is the mix of analisys, speculations and tests, not necessarily in that order. What so rocket science about that ?

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Succellus, your understanding of the scientific method is broken.

(And yes, your writing is actually hard to parse. ;) )

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Actually it is measurable and thus in some sense, absolute - you can go from zero to something or other, based on a standard test or definition.

 

As before, you just babble on, Sir.

 

Intelligence as we know is very relative

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So Succellus, what exactly is that you want to prove or give evidence for, in this "NASA`s Astrobiology discovery" thread? I`m kind of confused: people controlling machines with their mind?, relativeness of intelligence?, cats intelligent as much as people?, bacteria capable of abstract thought?

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Bacteria capable of abstract thought ftw! (Ken MacLeod's Engines of Light series. :) )

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Succellus, your understanding of the scientific method is broken.

(And yes, your writing is actually hard to parse. ;) )

 

So enlighten me please. If i am missing something i want to know. Im serious.

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