A question on missiles

[LordWolf]

Hello, I was wondering that, if a missile that locks on radar (For example aim-120c), and after its release, it is guided by itself (unlike aim-7m) would also have IR sensoring. It would make sense, therefore once the missile is close enough it would switch to ir, so that we would need both chaffs and flares.

[FeoFUN]

Hello, I was wondering that, if a missile that locks on radar (For example aim-120c), and after its release, it is guided by itself (unlike aim-7m) would also have IR sensoring. It would make sense, therefore once the missile is close enough it would switch to ir, so that we would need both chaffs and flares.

IMO, in many cases the modern IIR-sensors are even more preferable than the radar ones - because they're immune to the flares, allows to perform the stealth attack or shoot the targets with the small RCS.

[mvsgas]

Hello, I was wondering that, if a missile that locks on radar (For example aim-120c), and after its release, it is guided by itself (unlike aim-7m) would also have IR sensoring. It would make sense, therefore once the missile is close enough it would switch to ir, so that we would need both chaffs and flares.

Not sure if I understand correctly what you are asking;

 

If an AIM-120 is launched, it will still need guidance from the launching aircraft until a certain point, where its own radar can take over. It can potentially hit a target if the launching aircraft brakes lock as long as the target does not change direction,altitude and speed ( non maneuvering).

 

Normally, missiles will use one type of seeker. So I have never see A2A missiles with both.

 

IR normally used for short range, radar missiles are for longer (BVR) ranges.

 

This is one of those subject that attract controversy very quickly since people have many misconception and very strong believes on which missiles is better etc. Expect a lot of contradicting points and man arguments. This normally happens on threads comparing any equipment ( aircraft, missiles, guns, etc)

[LordWolf]

Not sure if I understand correctly what you are asking;

 

If an AIM-120 is launched, it will still need guidance from the launching aircraft until a certain point, where its own radar can take over. It can potentially hit a target if the launching aircraft brakes lock as long as the target does not change direction,altitude and speed ( non maneuvering).

 

Normally, missiles will use one type of seeker. So I have never see A2A missiles with both.

 

IR normally used for short range, radar missiles are for longer (BVR) ranges.

 

This is one of those subject that attract controversy very quickly since people have many misconception and very strong believes on which missiles is better etc. Expect a lot of contradicting points and man arguments. This normally happens on threads comparing any equipment ( aircraft, missiles, guns, etc)

yes, but i was asking whether the aim-120c uses IR as well as Radar after it locks on its own

[RIPTIDE]

yes, but i was asking whether the aim-120c uses IR as well as Radar after it locks on its own

It doesn't. It uses radar only.

[GGTharos]

Why would it make any sense at all? Where are you going to put the other seeker? They're kinda um, big.

 

Hello, I was wondering that, if a missile that locks on radar (For example aim-120c), and after its release, it is guided by itself (unlike aim-7m) would also have IR sensoring. It would make sense, therefore once the missile is close enough it would switch to ir, so that we would need both chaffs and flares.

[59th_LeFty]

Combined sensor equipped missiles first may sound logical, as there are both weak points of each of them. But in a second thought, there are much biggest problems in fusing them, than the ones they solve. First of all, is what GGTharos mentions, the size, which degrades the range - and the device also requires power. Also, it would make the unit cost much more. However, if you have a missile, like MICA, able to equipped with both type of sensors, you can whether choose which missile to launch, while also having the option to launch them simultaneously, if you see a low probability of kill with one missile. Then you have two smaller, dependently usable ordnance, with both of them having greater range than a unified seeker equipped one.

[Exorcet]

I think one of the US Air Force's proposed Phoenix equivalents, or something, planned to use a dual seeker, but I'm not sure.

 

I've heard that JDRADM might use one too, but everything surrounding JDRADM is so uncertain that the missile might as well be considered mythical.

 

Dual seekers are a great if you can get around the drawbacks, which is basically what everyone else already said.

 

Somewhat off topic, but with the F-22 and F-35 able to make LPI attacks, I wonder if a datalinked BVR IR missile would make sense. AMRAAM, and probably JDRADM, would give themselves away once active. An IR missile would not, and because it would be datalinked with the F-22, the launch could go undetected as well.

[TheProphet]

Why would it make any sense at all? Where are you going to put the other seeker? They're kinda um, big.

 

Ever heard of the Rafael's Stunner Missile?

 

http://defense-update.com/events/2007/summary/ausa07air_defense.htm

 

http://www.defence-update.net/wordpress/tag/david-sling

 

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?122613-David-s-Sling-rocket-defense-system-on-display

[GGTharos]

The JDRADM will feature a dual purpose seeker, but not two seekers (actually triple purpose - ARH, ARM, and seeker-as-fuze).

 

And no, I haven't heard of the stunner missile but I'm not terribly surprised to see a dual seeker system on a big SAM. Also the particular placement of the seeker and the slant of the dome makes me wonder how effective it is against ABTs. In any case, it doesn't appear to even be in production so we'll see I guess :)

[FeoFUN]

It's only matter of time - how soon A2A missiles with combined seekers will be introduced. There is a missiles with 2 or even 3 different seekers onboard, like SM-2 Block IIIb/IVa, JAGM, AARGM.

[GGTharos]

Miniaturization does wonders, and while it might be a matter of time it is simply not in the cards yet. Multiple seeker capability seems to be the domain of either large SAMs, limited seeker gimbal requirements or both.

[TheProphet]

And no, I haven't heard of the stunner missile but I'm not terribly surprised to see a dual seeker system on a big SAM. Also the particular placement of the seeker and the slant of the dome makes me wonder how effective it is against ABTs. In any case, it doesn't appear to even be in production so we'll see I guess :)

 

The Stunner missile is part of David's Sling air defense system, which is still under development and designed against medium and long range rockets, cruise missiles and aircraft of any sort, and believe me, this missile is going to be very VERY agile.

 

The system is set to be deployed in 2012-3.

[LordWolf]

What about the Russians, I presume s-500 won't be with just 1 seeker, i'd be kinda weird for its specs...

[LordWolf]

Hello, i have another weird question. Are there any optical seekers out there?

I mean, it's not hard to compare hue/saturation and select the dark dot on the sky...

[GGTharos]

I believe the SA-9 uses one.