Starting the TF-34 Engines

[MTFDarkEagle]

It's extremely realistic, it's the same as in the real A-10C

[sobek]

I notice the A-10 has a auto start , which basically moving the throttle out of cutoff starts the starting process. Does any know if this is realistic in the real plane?

 

AFAIK, yes, it is. IIRC it was retrofit along with one of the countless upgrades.

Edited October 7, 2010 by sobek

[GGTharos]

I thought it was that way since the -A.

[power5]

Only starts the engines if you have all the other necessary switches thrown though.

[MTFDarkEagle]

apu power is handy when starting indeed :P

[sobek]

I thought it was that way since the -A.

 

I thought i read some old documentation where it had to be manually started, but could also be that i mistook an emergency procedure for the real thing :huh:

[GGTharos]

I'll have to look again .. there's old documentation and then there's OLD documentation and then there's my memory :D

[BlueRidgeDx]

I'll have to look again .. there's old documentation and then there's OLD documentation and then there's my memory :D

 

The Autostart was added "later" by implemention of a TCTO, and was upgraded again by a second TCTO to the current "new" autostart.

 

The original start procedure was a lot like the T-38, where the pilot had to press buttons on the forward side of the throttle grips in order to initiate 30sec of igniter operation. Another switch had to be held in order to motor the engine, and the throttle was moved over the hump to introduce fuel flow once max motoring speed had been achieved.

 

This, in turn, is similar to the CRJ start procedure. Pressing the IGN A or B switches arms the igniters, the START button motors the engine, and moving the throttles over the hump starts the fuel flow.

 

Needless to say, the Autostart feature is much nicer.

 

Flim, the A-10 retains a lot of the same functions as the CRJ, but with a different name. For instance, the ENG SPEED switches on the CRJ are functionally identical to the ENG FUEL FLOW switches on the Hog.

 

I notice that the DCS A-10 isn't capable of generating the higher N1's normally seen in the CRJ. If you're not FLEXing, its normal to get FMS calculated N1's in the mid 90's, but the A-10 seems to max out below the minimum FLEX takeoff N1 in the CRJ - 85%.

 

Just an observation...

Edited October 7, 2010 by BlueRidgeDx

[Yo-Yo]

As far as I know from the CF-34 manuals, CF-34 gauges can use different %% values for the same rpm. Normal TO core and fan rpm readings for the TF-34 areabout 94% and 82%.

 

Please keep in mind that we have not yet fine tuned electronic fuel flow limiter and fuel governor rpm setting limits so fuel flow override mode is not accurate now.

 

But you can take a look at start up and spool-up ITT behavior... :)

[Zakk]

Imperative that you DO NOT touch/move your throttle prior to APU/Engine start. Doing so will result in you being unable to start the engines. Ensure your throttle is set all the way back, revert to default keypresses and start the engines subsequent to APU start-up via Keyboard inputs (RAlt-Home)(RCtrl-Home).

 

:huh:Then why does my default mapping show RAlt/RShift + PageUp/Down and Num+ to STEP UP the left/right throttles when the actual keys that step them up/down/idle are RAlt/RCtrl + Home/End?

 

Had to find this out the hard way sitting on the ramp with APU on; I tried a bunch of key combinations out of dire frustration to get my engines to spool up.

 

And yes, you can fiddle with the Throttle Slider all you want during start up, but make sure you set it to zero or your engines will shut down during startup.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Zakk

[BlueRidgeDx]

Yeah, one of my first comments about the early videos posted here a few weeks ago was about the realistic N1/N2/ITT/FF during start, and the realistic "rollback" once at stabilized idle. Looks great! Now if only those Oil Pressure gauges weren't stuck. ;)

 

The CF-34 is a derivative of the TF34, so different N1/N2 indicator calibration is certainly possible. Both have roughly the same RPM limits: 7,400rpm for the N1 fan, and (about) 17,800rpm for the N2 spool, though.

 

Anyway, my experience is limited to the CF-34, so I yield to your data.

[power5]

There is still an ignition switch for each engine. Not sure what the point of them is. I was trying to start the engines the first time with them. Before I read how to start them on here.

[BlueRidgeDx]

The IGN position of the ENG OPER switch is used for inflight windmilling restarts.

[159th_Viper]

:huh:Then why does my default mapping show RAlt/RShift + PageUp/Down and Num+ to STEP UP the left/right throttles when the actual keys that step them up/down/idle are RAlt/RCtrl + Home/End?

 

Quite Correct - There's a difference between Engine Start and Flight/Throttle Control ;)

 

 

 

Had to find this out the hard way sitting on the ramp with APU on; I tried a bunch of key combinations out of dire frustration to get my engines to spool up...

 

 

Did you not watch the relevant training mission/read the manual?

[Avilator]

I know that the AoA sensor and firing the cannon also activates the ignition, but can you use it in other conditions at pilot discretion, such as in icing conditions or heavy precip?

[Zakk]

Quite Correct - There's a difference between Engine Start and Flight/Throttle Control ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Did you not watch the relevant training mission/read the manual?

 

I like to mash buttons and throw switches! :joystick:

[tjhowse]

I can confirm that joystick axes behave differently between generated quick missions and training missions, without any change to any configuration.

 

I have an X52. I have the throttle, Z axis, set to combined throttle. Z rotation is on yaw. I have the slider on the throttle, "Slider" set to send keypresses at 5% from the limits for controlling the airbrakes. In other words, I have SFJackBauer's setup.

 

When starting a training mission, any training mission, the engines won't start unless the switches are in the proper position and the throttle (Z axis) is on 0. The engines can be moved from "Off" to "Idle" by using RAlt+Home and RCtrl+Home, at which point they spool up and everything's peachy.

 

HOWEVER, If I start a randomly-generated mission, using the "Create Fast Mission" menu option starting from the ramp, I get ingame and the engines will not go from off to idle unless the slider axis is on zero. Once it's on zero, the engines can be started. At this point it becomes obvious that the ingame throttle has rebound to the slider, since the slider can be moved from limit to limit, controlling the ingame throttle. The X52 throttle axis (Z) has no effect.

 

Hope this helps,

tjhowse.

 

Edit: I can confirm that if you create a fast mission starting from the runway instead of the ramp, the same problem is manifest. None of the training missions I've tried (Startup, takeoff and maneuvering, navigation, weapons systems) show this problem.

Edited October 8, 2010 by tjhowse
P.S.

[Nate--IRL--]

Go to the options-gameplay screen and click "use these options for any mission" and try again

 

Nate

[tjhowse]

Shortly after I posted that I duplicated my setup in the other option available in the drop-down box in the upper left of the controls configuration page. There were two, "game" and "sim". Now that they're both the same, everything works as expected.

 

Nate's solution would've worked only if you'd selected the correct option on the gameplay options menu down the bottom left, "Simulation" or "Gameplay". It seems that a checkbox on the gameplay options menu denotes which control scheme that mode of game uses.

 

Hope this helps,

tjhowse.

[TonyP]

Did you hit RAlt+Home and RCtrl+Home to move the throttles from OFF to IDLE?

 

Does hitting RAlt+Home and RCtrl+Home just affect the right engine or both engines. Wondering if I need to hit LAlt+Home and LCtrl+Home for the left engine. Why I asking this is after going through the start-up procedures I noticed that I had only one engine running? Maybe I missed a step earlier and only got one of the engines running.

 

Tony

[sobek]

Does hitting RAlt+Home and RCtrl+Home just affect the right engine or both engines. Wondering if I need to hit LAlt+Home and LCtrl+Home for the left engine. Why I asking this is after going through the start-up procedures I noticed that I had only one engine running? Maybe I missed a step earlier and only got one of the engines running.

 

Tony

 

RAlt-Home - Left Engine

RCtrl-Home - Right Engine

 

You need to let one engine complete the start cycle before you start the other, the APU is not strong enough to power both engines.

[SouthyUK]

Does hitting RAlt+Home and RCtrl+Home just affect the right engine or both engines. Wondering if I need to hit LAlt+Home and LCtrl+Home for the left engine. Why I asking this is after going through the start-up procedures I noticed that I had only one engine running? Maybe I missed a step earlier and only got one of the engines running.

 

Tony

 

RAlt + Home does the left engine, RCtrl + Home does the right engine.

 

I had the same problem with only 1 engine running until I realised I was switching off the APU too early, before the right engine had reached the correct idle values.

 

Edit: Beaten too it.

[BlueRidgeDx]

I know that the AoA sensor and firing the cannon also activates the ignition, but can you use it in other conditions at pilot discretion, such as in icing conditions or heavy precip?

 

According to the Dash-1, moving the ENG OPER switches to IGN provides 30 seconds of ignition regardless of throttle position or core RPM, so it appears possible. However, there's no mention of any requirement or recommendation to do so in the Adverse Weather Operation chapter.

 

EDIT: With all the thread merging, replies are al out of whack. Added quote for clarity.

Edited October 8, 2010 by BlueRidgeDx

[Impact]

Will there be a workaround other than using the keyboard for setting the engines to idle?

 

Like selecting the left engine only, turning it up to idle, starting up that engine, deselecting every engine, go back to off position with the throttle, then select the right engine only, go to idle and start it, then selecting both engines and move the throttle up together?

[159th_Viper]

Will there be a workaround other than using the keyboard for setting the engines to idle?

 

Already is - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog.

 

For any other HOTAS, keyboard only unfortunately.